September 20, 2005
R.I.P., Beer Pong (Updated)
September 20 will from now on be known simply as "The Day Beer Pong Died," according to Arlington's Dr. Dremo:
There is no more beer pong at Dr Dremo's by order of the Arlington county police and the VA Alcoholic Beverage Control. We have come to find out that drinking games are not permitted in bars in the state of VA. Whodathunk?With that nightly favorite now a relic of the past, Dr. Dremo's may have to return to more wholesome, family-oriented activities. Anyone up for a good cockfight?
Update: Call us suspicious, but after receiving some quizzical responses to the move against Dr. Dremo's, we did some research. According to a bulletin published by the Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control titled "Instructions for Operating Under a Retail Alcoholic Beverage License" (No. 56, Vol. 2), there is no statute or regulation that we can see that would stop a bar from allowing patrons to play games of beer pong, unless the game were considered a form of illegal gambling. Consider this a challenge, lawyers and lawyers-to-be: How is the State of Virginia justifying the banning of beer pong at Dr. Dremo's?
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Um, Bars are illegal in Virginia, that's why they have to serve food. There are liquor licenses for restaurants, but not one "bar" in the state.
The ABC folks will actually telly you how many appetizers and entree's etc. that you need to keep your license. If you don't sell enough food you lose the license.
Lovely Commonwealth of Virginny!
They're probably just trying to shut Dremo's down. they must have done well in that hearing.
One could conceivably argue that beer pong violates clause 6, "Do not maintain your premises in an unsanitary condition," given the nature of the game (throwing an unwashed ping pong ball into numerous cups of beer), as well as clauses 4 (Do not allow any noisy, lewd or disorderly conduct upon your licensed premises, or allow any lewd, obscene or indecent literature, pictures or materials upon the licensed premises) and 5 (Do not allow your establishment to become a meeting place or rendezvous for users of narcotics, drunks, prostitutes, gamblers or habitual law violators). No clear violation of the regulations, though.
Now read clause 33, what a bunch of killjoys.
yeah, it's a shame it not the district where old fashioned bribery and incompotence work so much better at ABC.
Where does the quoted notice in this article come from? It doesn't appear to be on the Dr. Dremo's website. As for its legal basis, my first guess would be that many regulations the ABC enforces give broad discretion for them to determine what kinds of behaviors to exclude, and for whatever dumb reason the ABC just decided to start doing this.
James: I believe it was sent out over the Dremo's email list.
i was wondering how long beer pong (where i come from people call it 'beirut') would last at dremos. i figured there must be a law against it in va.
however, i doubt this is a case of arlington county trying to get rid of dremos, i think its just regular ALE enforcement.
i watched a recording of the arlington county board meeting last night (the one from saturday sept 17). The board members debated the space occupied by dremos and the taco bell for a really long time. as far as i could tell, the neighborhood supported the new development, because it would create new parking in the area. the board still didnt seem to like the plan. barbara favola motioned to 'defer' a ruling, which would allow the developer (elm street) to come back to the next meeting with an amended plan. walter tejada then motioned to 'deny' the amendments. the board voted 3-2 to deny the developer's plans.
so that means that the developer can't submit another application for a year. so it seems, dremos is probably safe for another year, at least. on top of that, the way the meeting was going, it seemed that the developer might give up. in addition, the board members did not see any reason to allow more residential development on that land, since it is currently zoned 'commercial', not mixed use.
text from the arlington county board website:
58.
A. GP-301-05-1 General Land Use Plan Amendment from “General Commercial” to “Medium” Office-Apartment-Hotel; 2000 Wilson Blvd. (SP #389).
B. Z-2520-05-1 Rezoning: Elm Street Development, Inc., from ”C-2” Service Commercial – Community Business Districts to “C-O-2.5” Commercial Office Building, Hotel and Apartment Districts; 2000 Wilson Blvd. (RPC #17-011-009, -013, -015, -016).
C. SP #389 Site Plan: Elm Street Development, Inc., approximately 165 dwelling units, approximately 32,468 square feet commercial/retail space, comprehensive sign plan with modifications of use regulations for increased density, coverage, tandem parking, exclusion of retail storage and loading corridor gross floor area (GFA); 2000 Wilson Blvd. (RPC #17-011-009, -013, -015, -016).
ITEM #58A, B, & C FINAL ACTION: On motion by Mr. Tejada, seconded by Mr. Zimmerman, and carried by a vote of 3 to 2, the voting recorded as follows: Mr. Fisette – Nay, Mr. Zimmerman – Aye, Ms. Favola – Nay, Mr. Ferguson – Aye, and Mr. Tejada – Aye, the Board denied General Use Plan Amendment GP-301-05-1, Rezoning Z-2520-05-1, and Site Plan SP #389 for 2000 Wilson Boulevard.
Eh, beer pong is lame. I don't need a skanky ping-pong ball to tell me when to drink. I can do that on my own.
I agree with shogun. The thought of a grimy pingpong ball thats bounced all around the dirty floor of a bar coming in contact with the beer I'm going to drink disgusts me. I didn't play it in college and I don't now. Why can't everyone be content with pool and darts? Also, its nice to hear that Dremo's is still on life-support. I don't go there that much but its a nice option to have in Arlington.
Actually bars ARE legal in Virginia, just not public ones. Private clubs are allowed to serve beer (with no cut off time!) and wine. However, they can not serve alcohol. They can, however, mix drinks for members of the club that provide their own alcohol.
The gay bars in Central Virginia -- Richmond and Charlottesville, anyway -- operate in this fashion. Because they can serve beer all night, they also operate as de-facto after hours establishments for every yahoo within a 30 mile radius.
Trust me. I used to work the door at the Charlottesville club.
Post first, ask questions and do research later. Way to go, DCist!
Something does smell fishy about this "announcement," but since I don't like dusty ping-pong balls in my PBR, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.
Although a filthy plastic ball certainly couldn't do much to damage the rich smooth mediocrity of PBR. Might even make it better.
While I'm sure a lot of people will miss beer pong, I won't be among them. Dirty and frat-tastic, that's for sure.
I don't mean to be Debbie Downer, but I can see why bar-sanctioned drinking games could be problematic. It seems making a "game" out of alcohol consumption isn't the most adult or responsible way of distributing a controlled substance. Let's face it, people have to get to the bar one way or another, usually driving. If you wants to play games with alcohol, do it on your own time in your own home.
I'm not against drinking or even drinking games, I'm just saying I don't want people literally making sport of alcohol sharing the road with me and sharing my neighborhood with me.
Is flip cup still legal? What are people gonna do at all those tables outside with no beerpong?
and can someone please tell taco bell to start allowing pedestrians in the drive thru?!
"How is the State of Virginia justifying the banning of beer pong at Dr. Dremo's?"
With threats of violence and lost freedom. How else does the government justify banning anything where no one gets hurt.
I realize that I'm hyper-sensitive to this issue as I have lost a high school friend to a drunk driving incident. And, no, I don't think that everyone who plays such games, even at a public venue like Dremo's, drives drunk. I do think it is possible to enjoy such a game and still be safe and responsible.
But to say the government bans such activity even though "no one gets hurt" is lazy and potentially dangerous logic. Any time you mix alcohol with public spaces, particularly ones that offer GAMES centered on drinking, that usually are accessed by car, there is great potential for people to, indeed, "get hurt."
[cue the music for The More You Know . . . ]
OK DUDE!
I'm sorry that your friend died in a drunk driving accident... really and sincerely, I am... but that has little to nothing to do with this Dr. Dremos conversation. I would go out on a limb and say that over 90% of the people who drink at Dremos don't drive themselves there. They walk, they metro, they cab.
If you want some attention or you need to hear yourself talk - try a mirror. Otherwise... don't post something that does not contribute at all to this discussion.
And in what way are YOU contributing to the discussion, "That Guy?" It's a little hypocritical to post for the sole purpose of ripping on someone else's post and then adding NOTHING to the conversation yourself.
the past couple of posts have been about drunk driving (which I am against). In my last post, I wrote:
"... I would go out on a limb and say that over 90% of the people who drink at Dremos don't drive themselves there. They walk. they metro. they cab."
I thought that was my contribution, but maybe I am a hypocrit... I'm "that guy" after all
I agree with Eric
- Taco Bell should allow pedestrians through the drive through -
and I don't really care if that contributes or not.
(Wendy's does - why not Taco Bell??!!)
Last time I was trying to get a 2am bean burrito, I was tempted to run over the three drunk kids who were arguing with the window about getting served.
Let them eat fries!
Taco Bell does allow pedestrians in the drive through, I've done it. If you got denied, you were probably drunk, obnoxious or you didn't say please.
I am against drunk driving, but you have to admit, if an amusement park came up with a drunk driving ride, with, like, NERF cars or something, that would be totally awesome.
Hellz Yeah, Brother!
Next up:
Twin Towers: a giant cascading rubble-enhanced water slide!
Katrina: Levees that break and send you sliding into a Wave Pool o' Toxic Waste!
I-Rock: Through a simulator experience, you are the U.S. soldiers puttin' the smack down in Iraq.
First, there are already a ton of great video games for sale that do what the I-ROCK does. So, let's nix that idea. Second--and most important--you'll have to explain how we'd use Nerf in the above attractions. See, I've got a warehouse full of Nerf that I need to do something with. (It was all willed to me.)
(Maybe we add something like...THE COLUMBINER? Let me know!)
That Wendy's lets pedestrians use the drive-thru? Cool, I didn't know that. Although, with its wraparound design, I'd be a little leery of doing so, myself.
I've got a question about that Taco Bell on Wilson--if you've ever been inside ordering and looked into the back of the kitchen area, the door in the back has big scary-crazy letters on it that say something like: "Warning: Do not open this door after dark if you want to live!" WTF is up with THAT?
"... I would go out on a limb and say that over 90% of the people who drink at Dremos don't drive themselves there. They walk. they metro. they cab."
So are you conceding that 10% of the patrons DO drink and drive? Good to know. Yet another reason to not cross the potomac.
Wow! A DCist contributor is actually admitting to visiting Virginia?
Mon dieu....
Unless you're talking about a game played with ping pong paddles, this is not "beer pong" you are referring to.
Beer Pong is a game first popular on the campus of Dartmouth. It involves two opponents, armed with ping pong paddles, attempting to knock the ping pong ball into the opponents cup.
Beirut, on the other hand, originated in Fairfield County, CT and involves either 2 opponents or 2 teams of 2 each trying to sink a ping pong ball into their opponents cups, arranged in a triangle pointing toward the center of the table, by means of tossing the ball accross the table.
Remember:
Beer Pong = PADDLES
Beirut = NO PADDLES
no. beirut. just, no. beer pong. you folks from colleges up north are ridiculous about this.
also, Dick, many a dcist contributor actually lives in va, fyi. when i wrote for the site, i visited the state almost every week (after living in arlington for a year). mon dieu, indeed!
beer pong doesn't necessarily use paddles - in fact, I've never seen or heard of paddles being used. maybe there are variations of it with paddles, in some kind of bizarro land.
As for unsanitary, that's why you use a cup of water to dip the ball in before you throw it, to get the dirt and stuff off. It's not super-sanitary, but it's cleaner than just picking it off the ground and throwing it. Hopefully you change the water a lot. And some people put water in the cups you throw at and drink the beer from a separate cup. But I think that way is lame.
For those interested in the legal authority of VA to ban beer pong/beruit in a bar, I believe that this section of Title 3 of the VA Admin. Code applies (offering beer pong strikes me as an enticement for a patron to buy beer):
3VAC5-50-80. Entreating, urging or enticing patrons to purchase prohibited.
No retail licensee shall entreat, urge or entice any patron of his establishment to purchase any alcoholic beverage; nor shall such licensee allow any other person to so entreat, urge or entice a patron upon his licensed premises. Entreating, urging or enticing shall include, but not be limited to, placing alcoholic beverages in containers of ice which are visible, located in public display areas and available to patrons of retail establishments for off-premises sales. Knowledge by a manager of the licensee of a violation of this section shall be imputed to the licensee.
This section shall not be construed to prohibit the taking of orders in the regular course of business, the purchase of a drink by one patron for another patron as a matter of normal social intercourse, nor advertising in accordance with regulations of the board.