September 28, 2005
Once You Pop, You Can't Must Stop
When we posted about popped collars in October 2004, the people were divided. While some decried the practice as a "pointless fashion trend" reliving a short reprise from its heyday in the 1980s, other readers (and at least one DCist) defended it as a harmless variation in the otherwise bleak world of men's fashion.
The whole issue had slipped from our consciousness until we noticed this sign outside of Cafe Saint-Ex last Friday. After a brief hipster affiliation the bar has long been overrun on weekends by crowds that include many sporting preppie looks - including popped collars. Even Jenna Bush has swung through to cut loose at the bar's Gate 54 club. Apparently this clientele will now have to modify their behavior to get in, but the sign doesn't explain whether the "social poppers" whose collars "inexplicably" turn themselves up in the course of the evening we discussed in 2004 face ejection.
Our smoking ban coverage has shown us that people can get pretty irate about exclusionary policies enacted by bars. We at DCist can't seem to agree about the merits of a smoking ban, but now that our most vocal defenders of popped collars has departed the staff we can applaud one of our favorite watering holes for taking a stand against a disturbing trend. We just wonder what's next: bans on loafers or Lacoste?
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If you want to keep your collars-up, please go to Smith Point and Town Hall.
I stand by my pro-collar up policy, but only if it is done with complete irony in mind.
irony is SO 90's.
I was standing outside of St. Ex last Friday, debating whether to go there or somewhere else... then I spotted that sign and it lured me in.
I will support the first mayoral candidate to propose banning popped collars. SmokefreeDC, you're gonna have to wait. My dollars will got to a PoppedCollarFreeDC.
but the models in the Abercrombie in Fitch magazine have their collars popped? I don't understand?
Even with no popped collars, this place has still jumped a few sharks. When they ban Virginia driver's licenses, let us know.
I'm pretty sure the phrase "jump the shark" has jumped the shark. I'm not a fan of popped collars, but I'll tolerate one over double or triple popped.
I'm pretty sure the phrase "jump the shark" has jumped the shark. I'm not a fan of popped collars, but I'll tolerate one over double or triple popped.
Collars Down, Fists Up.
i think Saint Ex should worry about their AC problem and their mediocre bar before putting up a sign as rediculous as this one. if people want to pop their collars they should be able to, you can still think they look like morons. i know if someone tells me not to do something, it makes me want to do it even more.
When they ban Virginia driver's licenses, let us know.
Ouch. Take that, Reston!
People should be able to pop their collars and people will still be able to pop their collars -- somewhere besides Saint-Ex. This rule is obviously less about offense at fashion choices and more about discouraging a particular element from entering. Which I wholeheartedly support.
I can picture it now: Kanye West having a diva-esque hissy fit for being banned from this joint.
Sadie I wholeheartedly agree, but why stop there? There are so many "elements" to keep out.
Lets keep out:
etc...
I'm sure your preference to avoid the preppy patron isn't class warfare, and so EVERY subculture you dislike you would support Saint-Ex banning.
For people who theoretically value a diverse cosmopolitan environment, you really are an intolerant bunch.
I tend to see this step Saint Ex as taking as having nothing to do with turning people away or "intolerance" or class warfare or the eternal tension between DCers and exurbanites. It's an awareness-raising agenda--but, more importantly, it's a sign that the Cafe truly cares about its patrons--all its patrons--in a very vast way.
When Saint Ex insists you keep you collar down, you should think of this as good advice from a well-meaning friend with a bit of a skewed sense of humor. Trust me, when you look back in five years or so at pictures of yourself, rolling down the street circa aught-five with a popped collar, you are probably going to laugh at yourself, and silently thank Saint-Ex for steering you onto the right path.
What, I can't pop my collar?!? But I pop the collar on every shirt I own...now I'll have to replace my whole wardrobe!
Seriously...don't we have bigger issues to worry about than whether popped collars are slick or slimy. I mean how the fuck many beggars do we need to walk by before the more personally successful DCists learn to share so that our neighborhood can get some development to go along with all the new buildings.
I mean fuck...snarkiness is fine in its place, but sometimes compassion and inspiration to actually change the world are nice impulses, too.
... the eternal tension between DCers and exurbanites.
Except that you won't find a single popped collar in Manassas. You will, on the other hand, find them all up and down M Street, Wilson Boulevard, and pouring out of Mass Court (East End.)
Saint Ex is now my favorite bar. What if people have a goiter though? Can they get a note from a doctor?
Evan said: "Seriously...don't we have bigger issues to worry about than whether popped collars are slick or slimy."
It's the whole concept of infotainment that's usefull to help us escape this world of facts, beggars, corrupt police officers etc. Please go back to your non-profit job or whatever it is and worry about saving the world and getting the Tom Delay types in jail and I'll continue to read useless articles and enjoy my day. Loosen up man! We're picking on the Preppy kids at the country club!
I agree, Evan. I see this Cafe Saint Ex policy precisely as a compassionate and inspirational impulse that will make the world a better place.
Regionalism is the new collar pop. Stop measuring your d*ck by where you live. You're SO COOL because you live in the District, like, WE GET IT. Get over yourself: you sound like Georgetown frat boys who endlessly debate whose private school was the best.
Bashing Regionalism and Neighborhood pride is the new collar pop!
oy. that's some fooking BS. now I'm DEFINITELY going in there with my collar popped. i'm going to starch my shirt WITH the collar popped to make sure it's impossible to put it down. it's not my fault a bunch of staunch republicans stole my style and have desecrated it to the point where I am now excluded from participating in social events. us soccer players have every right to pop our collars. i've been doing it since the 80's.
i hate preppy republicans. they take everything that's cool and ruin it.
it's interesting that with all the poopid fashion faux pas haters are focusing their attention on popped collars. what about people who wear their sunglasses at night? what about jeans that are pre-faded only on your a$$ and thighs? what about camoflage pants? what about those short denim-skirts that girs wear? oh wait... i love that stuff.
you know, i used to discriminate about popping the collar with shirts where the collar was too big. not anymore. i'm going to pop collars that go up to my forehead. i'm going to look like dracula. bring it.
beware, St. Ex. maximus is coming and he's even got his dog-collar popped. BOOYAH!
This comments thread has made me hate kittens. The terrorists have won.
I had no idea about this whole popped collar thing before this post...
Did Saint Ex put up this sign just to be funny, maybe? Make fun of all the people who take anytime at all to care or talk about popped collars? If that's so, then they jokes on all of you.
It's possible to have pride in your neighborhood without making fun of someone else's neighborhood, dentalflosstycoon.
"Stop blowing out my candle to make yours burn brighter" and all that.
If you feel you have to make fun of where others live, that's a pretty good sign you aren't that happy with your digs.
You're SO COOL because you live in the District, like, WE GET IT.
Only if you live east of 16th Street NW, and Capitol Hill doesn't count. And Northeast doesn't count, either--Brookland? Woodridge? Give me a break. The less said about Southwest, the better. And U Street is too trendy. Dupont used to be cool, but not anymore. Logan is too yuppie. Shaw will be okay for the next few years, until Cosi moves in. Then you'll have to move to Trinidad (I mean "NoFlo") to preserve your realness.
So if the mighty Eric (ooh ahh) Cantona showed up at St Ex with his trademark collar up, as if reliving his glory days in the 90s at Old Trafford, they'd turn him away?
I tell you this much Eric - you are always welcome at my boozer (Crystal Phallus fans need not apply)
With_a_twist, the article is about popped collars and whether they're in or out and whether they're so out that they should be banned. The title of the post is "Once You Pop, You Can't Must Stop."
Why are you derailing this into a "my neighborhood is better than your's" or "DC VS VA" kinda thang?
P.S. I hate it when people talk about my extremely large p3nis size. ;-) Must be my neighborhood's water.
"Get over yourself: you sound like Georgetown frat boys who endlessly debate whose private school was the best."
Point taken, but I don't think they have frats at Georgetown. Maybe some GW frat boys, or just some tools at Georgetown.
Max,
I'm a little confused about your comment. You claim that preppy republicans took this look away from soccer players. This confuses me on two levels. First, preppy republicans were the first ones to import this look in the 80's. It was only once they moved away from that in the 90's that some hipsters started wearing the look ironically. Now preppy kids are wearing the look again without the tired irony. Do they look silly? Maybe (but is it so worse than behead hair or whatever else insecure hipsters wear today?), but don't claim they stole the look. I believe sociologists call that "reclamation".
The second thing I'm confused about is that soccer players "popping" and preppy republicans are pretty much the same group.
Just a question...Whether St. Ex meant it ironically or not, what makes it okay to openly crack jokes/make exclusions at the expense of the "preppy Republican" crowd. Yeah, popped collars DO look stupid, but so do jeans that are hanging around someone's knees, ironic hipster vintage t-shirts and stupid tattoos...Would DCist be applauding a bar that posted a sign requesting that those be removed/hidden?
Perhaps mandatory uniforms are in order.
Isn't the point of the preppy aesthetic to project an air of wealth and privilege? I think that's why people react negatively to the popped collar phenomenon. It's a deliberate attempt to draw attention to your (presumably) privileged status. Which, to many of us, reads as "spoiled and proud of it". There are negative connotations that can be associated with stupid tattoos or ironic t-shirts, but for most they're not quite as naturally off-putting as the aforementioned flavor of snootiness.
If you want us all to stay "on topic," Dental, then why are you FURTHER de-railing the comment thread by calling out twist?
Your hypocritical hamster wheel, and welcome to it, azzhat.
I wonder, are the comments sections on the other -Ist sites also dominated by a bunch of whiny bitches. It's funny - can't you just leave it at that?
Dude, Brookland is the new Brooklyn. I have a t-shirt that says so.
Why didn't YOU just "leave it at that," RCR?
If whining=bitchy, doesn't whining about whining=still bitchier?
No, 5alive, it doesn't.
Tom, as a preppy Republican, I have to say I've never heard such a well put argument against the "popped collar" as your own. However I think the average hipster garb is just as intentionally trying to draw attention to how under privileged they are (whether they are or not). I agree that it's not polite to draw attention to a privileged background, but I think it's also not polite to shove your real or imagined underprivileged background in someone's face either. We should all just understand that there's always someone who had it easier and someone who had it worse.
Get over it, and judge someone for what they say or do, not for where they're from.
(By the way, I think a popped collar looks pretty stupid myself, especially when worn ironically)
Also, just for the record, I think it was mostly a joke on St. Ex's part, and a very funny one at that.
Let me refer everyone back to my comment at 9:12 this morning, before this conversation leads to any more THE WARRIORS stizz combativeness.
Preppy Republican:
Your points are well-taken, although I disagree with the idea that traditional hipster acoutrements are meant to convey a lack of privilege. Certainly they aren't accurate signifiers of that (as you imply). It's subjective, of course, but they seem more like an artistic statement to me (albeit a shallow one).
But when you say the following to excuse the poppers:
We should all just understand that there's always someone who had it easier and someone who had it worse.
I have to disagree. Not with the literal sentiment, of course. Nobody's faulting anyone -- rich or poor -- for the circumstances into which they were born. Rather, it's a question of flaunting your privilege. Some facts of personal history are inappropriate to public celebration, even when there's nothing inherently wrong or shameful about them.
For instance: I have some confederate ancestors. I'm not ashamed of my heritage. But I would still be a grade A jackass if I flew the confederate flag. Popped collars are the stars and bars of the baby plutocrat set.
"We should all just understand that there's always someone who had it easier and someone who had it worse"
PR - That's a whole lot easier to say if you're among those who have had it easier. I guess poverty would be much more palatable if everyone just dressed like they were rich. Popped collars aside, your logic betrays you as a Republican far more than your psuedonym.
And for the record, most of NE preppified these days too, and Shaw is so played out. Only those who live East of the Anacostia River can maintain their indie cred/realness (unless they live in subsidized housing elsewhere, i.e. Sursum Corda).
Thank you, tom, for bringing the much-needed de Saussurian terminology to this meaningful debate.
If I may:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/40984
new_coke: Find me where I used any philosophical terms. Or do you just not like it when people use words longer than two syllables? If it helps I could spell out my comments FONETIKALLEE.
I never said you did use philosophical terms--I said you used a linguistic term and then I (with tongue firmly in cheek) brought in a humor link because--surely even you can see--you need to lighten the foch up!
Sorry. I just respond badly when people try to shut down online conversations in which I'm genuinely interested on the basis of the topic being too nerdy. We are on the internet, after all.
My whole comment was just an excuse to fire off the confederate flag analogy, anyway.
Tom,
Point taken about the message behind hipster clothes. I agree that the hipster garb is more about drawing attention to one's artiness or enlightenment, or what have you, rather than a virtuously humble background. And again, such message is only worth the polyester/cotton blend that it's written on.
And good point also about the confederacy background. But I really think that's an extreme example. Preppys didn't secede from the nation in an attempt to maintain a slave-based economy. Historically speaking, the preppy look evolved in the North-East during the second half of the 20th century among upper-middle class families who looked to Europe (first England then France) for fashion guidance. Were they trying to associate themselves with European sophistication? Of course. But so what? Much of the whole hipster look is based off of mid-century Scandanvian styles. It's the same game.
Most people here probably hate the "popped collars" because it reminds them of some "jock" or "fratboy" in their past (real or imagined) that they could not stand. Maybe to their eyes, a popped collar is like a rebel flag, but to me that sounds pretty limiting.
And to "Republicans suck": My point is that you shouldn't dismiss someone because they had it easier than you, just as someone shouldn't dismiss you because you had it easier than them. I think we all too easily judge a book by its cover, but we should at least try not to.
There is some valuable research here, and, at some point, I hope everyone wouldn't mind sending me your real names so that I can get the footnotes right in my upcoming doctoral dissertation entitled "Through A Collar Popped, Darkly: Pre-Post-Foucaultian Social Signifiers in a Post-NeoStructuralist World, and the Bitches that be On They Junk."
Hipster Dorks Suck.
Really, that's all there is to this.
Fine. Stay out of our bars.
I know that it's cool to make fun of Virginians, but we must be careful not to raise their ire too much, because they have guns and cars.
Its great to see that in the years since I've lived away from DC, it's only gotten more socially retarded.
RE:
Max,
I'm a little confused about your comment.
...
The second thing I'm confused about is that soccer players "popping" and preppy republicans are pretty much the same group.
It looks like republicans found out about another cool trend and decided to ruin it. dcist.com :(
Ron:
Yes, because District dwellers OBVIOUSLY don't have guns. Because the murder rate is so low and all. DC is really safe and what have you.
Yeah but people in DC with guns just use them to shoot each other. People in VA with guns use them to plot and secede.
Ryan:
Check your facts, with the exception of maybe five minutes several years ago, popping a collar has pretty much always been a "republican" thing rather than a cool thing. Why else do you think everyone in DC hates them?
And as a general matter, if you're into a cool trend immediately before Republicans are, guess what, they're not the ones ruining the trend, you are.
Oh man, this thread is still alive!
This reminds me of one time this summer at Left Bank there were four guys garbed in full vertical collared Izod flair, each one with their own starched pastel colored Polo fun. Standing at the bar together ordering. RainbowPreptastic!
I, for one, support our popped collared Overlords.
In Soviet Russia, collars pop YOU!
Yakov! where have you been?
slashdot, mostly.
Popped Collars Suck
Hipsters Suck
Just about everything about the entire DC Metro area sucks.
It's a bar. Drink. It's not a god damn fashion show.
Best. Comment thread. Evar.
There's just something about the posts that deal with identity issues . . .
SNIPES.
Look, I'm not one to support fashion policing, but I checked with a Republican relative on this one. He told me that the whole popped collar phenomenon started in the South, where rich white golfers would pop their collars when they were out playing so that they wouldn't get sunburned necks. This wasn't about being cancer-conscious--it was about distinguishing themselves from the poor white "trash" farmers who worked in the fields all day (the...wait for it...REDNECKS). At least in my case, my abhorrence of the style isn't about hating some toolish frat boy, but about wanting to stand up to people who revel in their classism (or are just followers of those who do). As far as I'm concerned, Saint-Ex has every right to prohibit people from making that statement in their space, whether the people wearing it understand it or not.
hey, my previous comment on this was in the Express! cool! DCist people, do i get paid now?
i thought pop english bands in the 80's made the popped collar popular.
after Fonzi did it, that is. and elvis
oh.. and marlon brando
and oh yeah.. james dean.
and ming the merciless.
someone should write a book on such an important topic!
how anyone can applaud a public facility having some wack-ass dress code-like policy is beyond me. i can see if it was a poshy restaurant or summat... but a wack-ass cafe? i can understand the typical "no shirt no shoes no service" mentality, but if i didn't have to pay annual dues or membership fees to get in your place, or make reservations for dinner made by a world-class chef, then i'll come in your establishment popped collar and all. fuck elitist bastards
Oh come on, you think they actually would've asked you to turn down your collar or leave? Get a sense of humor and stop embarrassing yourself.
Wow. Some people need to come in and have a beer... chill out... and realize that a note on our chalkboard about popped collars is just what it is... a joke. If some would devote this much attention to serious issues (like the crime wave that is hitting 3 D and 5th) these blogs and list serves could change the direction of the city... Republican... Democrat... Communist... Anarchist...
Please be safe. Drink responsibly. Wear your collar inverted. Make a difference.
check out www.poppedcollarsarelame.com it will clear this argument right up.