February 9, 2006
Court Rules Against Landowners in Stadium Land Fight
Things are looking up for the new stadium.
This week the D.C. Council approved the stadium lease, and today we find that the D.C. Court of Appeals has ruled that the city can move forward and take the lands necessary to build the stadium. According to WTOP, the court ruled that it was in no place to question the city's use of its eminent domain powers to take the land and that the city's estimates of the land value were made in good faith.
A number of landowners in Southeast had challenged the use of eminent domain to take their land and property, claiming that they weren't being offered enough to pick up and leave. Robert Siegal, who owns three parcels of land, 11 vacant lots, and runs the gay nightclubs that populate the area, was the main critic of the city's plans.
A hearing has been set for February 24 to determine when the landowners have to vacate the land's to allow for construction to begin. The team in charge of the stadium's construction has told the city that it would like to begin prepping the lands on March 1.
The Washington Sculpture Center, pictured above, will be cleared away to make way for the new stadium. More info on the redevelopment of the area can be found at JDLand.
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Am I totally off base with this question?
How many, if any, of the cities' gay nightclubs (or I guess stripclubs) are being taken through eminent domain? Is the city still refusing to allow new permits for stripclubs? I recall hearing about that a couple of years back.
I was just curious if the stadium deal was going to pretty much wipe them out completely without allowing them to rebuild elsewhere.
I personally find stripclubs of any type distasteful, but I am wondering if this is seen by some as a convenient way to do away with them. If that were the case it would seema little unfair.
And yup, going to play the anonymous coward on this one. I just don't want to admit to my own ignorance...
Well, if AnonymousCoward. The gay strip club scene in DC is really the most unique aspect of its gay scene. For whatever that's worth. But if you want to follow all the news on this you should check out the Washington Blade, biased reporting yes. Skewed libertarian, sure. But it is comprehensive. At least in this regard.
i'm no big stip club fan, but the city forced the gays out to that less than safe areas a long time ago, and now that the land has value they want it back. the clubs should be allowed to find new homes in DC.
I hear the owner was trying to move the clubs to Trinidad neighborhood, but it is being met with local opposition.
trust me, the gay strip clubs will not be welcome in any neighborhood in DC except dupont circle. there is more than enough room to put them there and they will blend in perfectly without having to place somewhere else that wants no part of that scenery out their front window
I may be wrong, but I understood that that area along South Capitol Street was the ONLY commercial area in all of DC that's zoned for stripclubs. The other clubs downtown were grandfathered. Unless the council works to rezone some area like New York Avenue near Bladensburg Road, this means a de facto end to these types of clubs. And I can't imagine any area in DC clamoring for gay stripclubs, not even Boystown off 17th Street.
What about opening the Dupont Underground to these clubs?
you must live out of town. no queen from dupont circle wants a strip club in their neighborhood. they want more trader joe's and neimen-marcus type stores. i go to those places once every 5 years hosting culturally deprived tourists. nobody wants to live near one of those clubs. that's why two of the queens on the council voted no. they want to maintain the status quo for the gay dollars.
As I understand this, the city is working with the strip club owners to help them move their licenses to another part of the city.
Right now, no part of the city is "zoned" to allow for strip clubs. All of the existing strip clubs (on M Street, at Conn/Florida, on Wisconsin Ave, and on South Capitol) are grandfathered in. No more licenses for strip clubs are being issued by the city.
Jim Graham's office has apparently been working this issue with the owners to get it addressed by the council. However, if the city can't make the move happen for the strip clubs, it will seem like a particularly bad deal for the owners who are being forced out.
PS -- Eventhough the city owns it, any occupancy of Dupont Underground is still in legal limbo, given that the sleazy guy who holds the lease for it is in bankruptcy, suing the city, and has tried all kinds of dishonest manuevers to transfer the lease to other people.
Even if they could move to Dupont, they couldn't afford the rent. Unless they went "upscale" stripclub, and had $500 table service.
Don't want to think what that would include.
As a gay man, I'm not all that upset to see these places go. I never really frequented those places anyway. However, I respect their right to exist and believe they should be able to reopen somewhere else in the city.
The issue is where to reopen. Dupont is NOT an option. Firstly, I believe there is some ordinance that these types of establishments cannot be located within "X" distance from a school or Church. There is no place to put them in that area. And I doubt they'd be welcome even in Dupont anyway, RH.
Don't assume that Dupont is still an overwhelmingly Gay neighborhood. That's not the case. Also, don't assume that Gay people want that type of establishment, along with the things that come with it (e.g. vagrants, public sex, drug dealers, noise, trash, etc.) in their neighborhood. As a gay man, 15-year resident of DC and property owner in that area, I can say that I would strongly oppose the Follies opening up next door. I hate to sound like a NIMBY because I do see the value of the vibrant nightlife in my neighborhood and I know the neighborhood is better for it. But, NIMBY.
Look how long it took for the owner of the new gay bar above Royal Palace to get the green light. I'm sure the ANC Nazis would have a collective coniption if a nudie bar were to decide to move into Dupont.
So basically, I have no solution. I feel that these places have a right to exist, but I don't want them in my neighborhood. And because of that, I can't really advocate that they be allowed into someone else's neighborhood.
who you callin ANC nazi? lol. they happen to be also on the district democratic party committee.
youre right virgin mary, thats exactly why the two queens voted no. not because of the public money being used but because the baseball stadium will eradicate happyland, and I think its a sleazy move by the council to enact a law allowing them to apply for a new home when the current law clearly prevents that
They're also kicking out Nexus, which I understand to be the only decent hetero strip club in the city. So all of us feel a spiritual loss at this turn of events.
it has been suggested the only area for this relocation is over in that area near montana and west viginia avenue ne. where john ray wants to put all those videopoker/slotmachines.
I think Graham's and Catania's no votes were due to a combination of factors, RH. I agree that the demolition of "happyland" as you put it is one factor -- mostly because I think the owner of The Follies, Glory Holes, etc. is a big political contributor. Apparently there's money to be made in providing people a place to whack off. Also, sine they're both "queens" (again, nice), they probably feel an obligation to support gay businesses and must be seen as standing up for the Gay community. Gay votes are powerful in DC. That said, I highly doubt Jim Graham and David Catania are trolling around Half and O SE, looking to anonymous handjobs. Then again, I could be wrong.
Also, many people do see the removal of these businesses as a gay rights issue. Every other business being relocated can reopen almost anywhere (where rents allow). These places will just be gone. Again, I don't see the social value of these businesses, but they're businesses contributing to the tax base and operating within the law. That said, I can't propose an area where they would be welcome or suggest that one neighborhood that deserves to have all the crap associated with these businesses.
As far as my remark about the ANC Nazis. I've worked for too many bars in DC and had to jump through too many hoops for the ANCs over the years. I'm just a little bitter. Sorry if I offended any Nazis.
The area near montana and west viginia avenue ne. where john ray wants to put all those videopoker/slotmachines?
Where is this area? I can't picture it.
speaking as a person who happens to be gay, let me say i find nothing in those business approaching gay civil rights. they are businesses that cater to sexual orientation and have nothing to do with gay civil rights. that's like saying the green lantern is all about gay rights. lol. the green lantern is a gay bear theme bar. or like saying the 400 block of L st. is gay civil rights for the street transvestite protitutes that hook on that block. i seem to recall mr segal, the landowner of all the gay businesses, is also the ANC for that 'gay' baseball area.
the montana/west virginia slot machine area is on the south side on new york avenue behind the hess gas station where the ford dealer use to be.
virgin mary sr: please do not try and equate the DC Democratic State Committee with the DC Council. The two are not related, are not the same entity, and should not be referred to as one and the same.
The DC Democratic State Committee is the leadership of the Democratic Party in DC. They have no legislative powers over the District, nor are they a branch of the DC government.
The DC Council is part of the DC government, and has legislative power in the District. The membership of the Council includes two members not belonging to the majority party - currently a Republican (Schwartz) and an independent (Catania).
Please make sure to get your facts straight before pointing the finger.
is not maryeva candon the ANC for the royale palace also on the democrat state committee or an officer of the democrat party of the district of columbia? yes or no ?
One thing, RH. Why do you think those clubs would "blend perfectly" in Dupont? Is it because you think all gay men are sleaze bags who would compromise their prime neighborhood (that they built) just to be able to walk across the street to see someone shake his willie in their faces. Have you been to Dupont lately? Where would you put these clubs in Dupont? Next to Ann Taylor? On top of one of the myriad Starbucks? The sleaziest thing in Dupont these days are the trashy girls at the straight bars on CT Ave.
I think an earlier poster is right. The South Cap. street area was the only place those businesses were allowed to operate.
The first question never got answered, and I only know of a couple there (I think they have different theme nights in the same place.) There is also a porn shop.
RH, I think you are about 20 years behind the times.
But it comes down to capitalism. If they can't get get their own place, they may buy the license (if they can) of a less successful straight club. Or there may be 'gay nights' at staight ones.
Also, I dont think Nexxus is being driven out, the owner can just make more money selling the land.
You can see some of the place that are going to be taken by eminent domain on my site (see Dec. and Jan. archives).
How did the Crew Club on 14th Street (a gay bathhouse) get permission to open 5 or 6 years ago? I'm sure the owner is happy to be the only game in town once the O St places close. Chaos will still provide drag shows in DC and there will still be a sex club on 14th. Where will the boys dance??? Didn't JR's gave strippers at one point when Cobalt opened up year ago?
Also, NIMBY, Adams Morgan.
sorry typo, should read:
Didn't JR's have strippers at one point when Cobalt opened up many years ago?
hey remember when rascals was operating the club upstairs with the gogo boys and the gay ANC had fit. and when riggs bought the bldg they couldnt relocate the dancing part of the license anywhere in the neighborhood?
sorry, i must have been in the convent when cobalt and jr's had gogo boys :)
I agree with you virgin mary. Closing those bars is NOT a violation of gay civil rights. It's just that I've heard that argument made more than a few times in various forums. I apologize if it sounded as if I supported the opinion that closing these places somehow violates gay civil rights. As I stated, I don't frequent those places so, personally, I'm not sorry to see them go. However, many people do feel (wrongly, in my opinion) that closing these places when they can't reopen is anti-gay. And you're right, the owner of much of the land is gay and on the ANC for that neighborhood. And isn't he one of the biggest critics of the city taking the land? I'm confused. I can't tell if you're arguing with me or supporting my argument. We seem to be making the same point.
The Crew Club has been there for a lot longer than five or six years. I think they technically operate as a "gym." Yeah, right. There is another sex club on 14th street. I'm not sure what kind of operating license it has. And once the other places close, the CC will be making money hand over fist, so to speak.
And you're right again, virgin mary. I don't ever remember go go boys at JR's. Hmmm, did I miss something? Maybe they did have a go go night briefly several years ago.
lol i'm not arguing with anybody. but rudi needs to get his head out of his ass! actually E we're on the same page! yes mr segal was offered 25 million dollars for his gayland and has offered the seller 1 million for his 9,000 sq ft property in ivy city(slotmachine neighborhood). the neighbors dont want it. but the city will give it to them like it or not.
...is not maryeva candon the ANC for the royale palace also on the democrat state committee or an officer of the democrat party of the district of columbia? yes or no?
She is the Executive Director for the DC Democratic State Committee - a paid office position, not an elected or ex officio office. As such, she has no voting power within the committee - she merely tends to the office administration and business end of things. She is not a member or an officer of the DCDSC.
Just setting the facts straight - not trying to dispute your argument, VMJ.
Additional clarification on Ms. Candon: while she is an ANC Commissioner, she is not the ANC Commissioner for the area where Royale Palace is located.
Royale Palace is in ANC 2B. Ms. Candon is an ANC Commissioner in ANC 2D.
Again, just making sure the facts are presented accurately.
Wow! $25 million? He'll be able to buy a lot of poppers and lube with that kind of cash, if he can reopen. It's ironic that the ANC in Ivy City is objecting to these establishments, but probably will have to swallow it (pun intended) while the ANCs in the more prosperous neighborhoods (read Adams Morgan and Dupont) wield such power over liquor licenses and various enterprises. Equity? Not really.
virgin mary, if they stick those clubs over there in ivy city, theres going to be TROUBLE TROUBLE! those folks over there dont want any gay clubs in the area and they have their own unique way of expressing themselves............bang bang
Sadly, RH, I think you're right on that issue. I'm not sad that you're right, but I'm sad that people would perpetrate such violence. Hey! I know a way to kill two birds with one stone. Mr. Siegel can buy the Heurich mansion and turn it into a porn theater/bath house/drag club/super disco. Clearly he'll have the finds to pay the interest on the loan.
FUNDS to pay the interest on the loan, that is.
she merely tends to the office administration and business end of things
lol yeah and she was a delegate to the domocratic national convention just opens letters, huh?
duupont circle is the only viable option, its not that people discriminate solely against gay clubs, people arent allowing female strip clubs, bars, or dance clubs in their neighborhoods either, we just went through vietnam for the last 20 years in this town and now its time to clean it up and a gay nightclub should not be at the top of everybodys to do list
Ivy City is a perfect location for a mega gay complex. there's a metro bus that runs from sibley memorial hospital to Ivy City 24 hrs a day. where will they move the KB bookstore is the big question?
there's a metro bus that runs from sibley memorial hospital to Ivy City 24 hrs a day.....
that metro bus line will be the busiest one in the city real soon
To the person above who said that Nexus is getting "kicked out," that's not really true, at least not for the stadium. It's about 4 blocks north of the stadium site, and the land it sits on has been sold to JPI with plans to put a condo development there.
"lol yeah and she was a delegate to the domocratic national convention just opens letters, huh?"
True, she was an at-large member of the DNC at that time. Two points to make here:
1. The DNC and the DCDSC are not the same thing, though they are affiliated.
2. The DC delegation that attended the DNC Convention in '04 was part of A. Scott Bolden's DCDSC administration, not the current administration of Wanda Lockridge.
But still, you're looking at strawman scapegoats here. It's true that many neighborhoods in the District wouldn't welcome the gay entertainment establishments being displaced by the new stadium. As a resident of Dupont, I'm not too keen on having more nightclubs in the area if only for the fact that it would skew the business balance in the neighborhood toward more entertainment for few, not more entertainment for all. I'm not advocating more "family friendly" franchises or less diversity of businesses - if anything, Dupont could use more diversity of businesses: furniture, books, maybe a bowling alley, et al. But relocating an entire sector of niche businesses to one area as a block, be it Dupont, Ivy City, Trinidad or wherever, is not necessarily the best approach. There seems to be a lack of communication with the locals, which would create the unforutnate "bang bang" situation described above by RH.
Yes, this whole stadium deal stinks of backroom dealings that had little-to-no public input. Yet people somehow continue to vote for the people who have unabashedly run with their eyes on the big business prize, so it shouldn't come as a shock that such a deal was eventually chosen.
Good discussion here, folks!
RH, I agree that a gay nightclub should not be at the top of everyone's to do list. This city has bigger fish to fry. However, I disagree that Dupont Circle is a viable option. It's hard enough getting ANC approval for "respectable" places in Dupont. The Dupont Cirlce or Logan Circle ANC would never approve a license for a strip club. The gay contingent is just not as strong in these neighborhoods as it was before they became hot. And for the continget that remains, I don't think a strip club is that important to them anymore. Even more, those neighborhoods would go ape shit if one of Mr. Siegel's bath houses moved next door.
i have been to Ziegields on several occasions. hosting many tourists from europe and bringing them to Zigfields because of their unique product. club chaos was recenetly in the news for violence and i wouldnt go there. where the hell do you park a car at club chaos? they dont even have a pay parking lot near by. i will be happy to drive to ivy city. with the strip clubs already there, what's a few more? the locals should embrace the increase land values and sell to the speculators now. there are so many open lots and commercial warehouses available. the holy roller churches should start to pay taxes if they want better services and bethesda baptist church should move to bethesda. :)
katherine........thats exactly what im talking about right there, your ignorant attitude. first of all there are no strip clubs in ivy city proper, and advising the "holy rollers" who have been there forever to pack up and move out just so some queens can come in to party (and whatever else they do) is really ignorant. anybody wanna bet that katherine will be the first to understand what I meant earlier.......BANG BANG
Why is someone named Katherine frequenting gay male strip clubs? I'm just askin'.
Why is someone named Katherine frequenting gay male strip clubs?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess . . . to see the naked men?
Call me naive, but shouldn't DC govmnt' wait until the lease is apporved by MLB before having the landowners vacate their property? For all we know, MLB could reject the amended lease agreement passed this week by the Council and everyting will be back to square 1.
Regarding the clubs, I'm in agreement with most of you, DC govmnt' should consider the clubs needs and facilitate their moving to another area of the city. Goddam, I'll miss Nation when its gone =(
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess . . . to see the naked men?
if katherine is that desperate that she has to go see gay naked men who dance for gay men then she has bigger issues to worry about than a damn baseball stadium!
have y'all been to the srt8t black strip club on new york avenue next to taco bell on new york avenue? those babes are smokin HOT! dayum you white suburban kids have GOT to see these girls!