February 15, 2006
Is the District Being 'Manhattanized'?
The District is often compared to our behemoth neighbor of a city to the north, New York. And as much as we hate the comparison -- and the resulting argument -- we may be moving in New York's direction, figuratively speaking.
As it turns out, certain folks see a bit of Manhattan moving down south, resulting in a so-called "Manhattanization" of the District. Bloomberg yesterday expounded on this issue in an article titled, "D.C., Once 'Graveyard After Dark,' Adds Manhattan Glitz, Prices."
Citing familiar Manhattan restaurants and bars like Rosa Mexicano as well as hotels and department stores that are now popping up in the city and added to real estate prices that are flying high (so much that the cost of office space has now surpassed Manhattan levels), the Bloomberg article ascertains that we are indeed changing and becoming more like Manhattan. It paints our fair city as having moved on from what the article quotes as "a marble graveyard after dark."
With the redevelopment of certain parts of the city such as the U Street corridor and Gallery Place/Chinatown (which some call our own Times Square) alongside the falling crime numbers in the past few years, the District most certainly has come a long way. We're pretty proud to call this spiffed-up place home, and anxious to see in which direction it will head in the years to come.
Of course, we may gain some of Manhattan's charateristics, but there are still those intrinsic differences that may never be overcome. The Bloomberg article quotes native New Yorker Joseph McHale as saying, "D.C. is never going to be Manhattan, but it's going to be a great city with a great flavor." Giving some credence to D.C.'s unique coolness factor, he states, "I'm from New York, but this is where I want to be.''
With our 69 square miles versus Manhattan's 23, we open this up to you: are we being Manhattanized? Is the District's flavor being overruled by NYC staples, or are the right ones popping up at the right places? What helps to comprise the unique character that is our city? And, more importantly, do we want to become more and more like Manhattan?
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I see it as having some great plusses as well as great minuses- I've not made up my mind. On the plus side- it means an even greater influx of money, more tourism, even better places to eat, and increased property values (though this could be seen as a minus for some). On the minus side I see increased gentrification, more traffic, and potential overgrowth. That being said- is there really any way to slow it?
One thing is for sure- we won't ever truly be like Manhattan as we won't have the skyline due to building height restrictions.
I would argue that DC never had a local flavor to overrun. We have no truly local cuisine, we have no locally originated music that is well known in most of the rest of the country and most every retail store here is already a corporate store. Every grocer is a rundown corporate chain. There's a lack of local butchers, bakers (insert candlestick maker joke here.), pharmacies and coffeeshops.
Unfortunately, Manhattanizing DC can only help it.
DC definitely is becoming yuppie and pretenious, not to mention extremely expensive and elitiest on all fronts (housing, dining, shopping, etc). So in those ways it is indeed becoming 'Manhattanized.' It's a shame we couldn't find any middle ground between that and being a poster child for urban poverty and decay. Oh well so goes life.
Some of this is good. Some of this is bad. I feel sorry for people who have been longtime DC residents and are being forced out due to gentrification and rising housing prices. It's a loss of some of the culture and uniqueness that makes DC what it is. That said, I cannot wait for a couple of things about Manhattan to come to DC...first is 24 hour metro (subway) trains. Catching the 3am out of downtown really sucks. Would it be so hard to run 2 to 3 trains an hour between 3am and 6am?? I know several people who would be happy... I also wouldn't mind taxi fares and uniform cab standards to come down from NYC. The DC Zone system and un-uniform appearance of the cabs here in DC is so confusing that sometimes I'm almost left wondering if I've stepped into somebodies personal car and that they still want to rip me off for one too many zones.
Maybe....just maybe.....
Sure looks that way, now that every neighborhood in DC is getting a name.
I agree with this comment from the article:
"D.C. is never going to be Manhattan, but it's going to be a great city with a great flavor."
And I quite like that.
For the most part, this is a very good thing. I welcome the long-awaited (and i do mean LONG-awaited) addition of high-end retail, restaurants, and condos. For the health of our city, however, we need to find a way to ensure we also encourage mid-level development. A city of two extremes isn't a healthy city...
I agree, it's really tough to find a quality candlestick maker this far north of Williamsburg.
When I think of Manhattan, I think of skyscrapers and a thriving arts/music scene.
When I think of DC I think of urban sprawl and go-go's failure to catch on with the masses.
It should also be noted that for all of Upper Harlem's faults, Harlem is no Southeast DC. When (if) SE starts to thrive, then we can start throwing around words like Manhattanization.
Since when is getting good restaurants and shops "Manhattanization," whatever that means. I think the singular comparison is absurd. It's just plain gentrification. I don't know any area in the US that gentrified, yet kept the same restaurants and stores.
Bottom line - stores and restaurants follow the money. There's more money in the District, hence we are seeing an influx of better commercial entitites.
You know, in most cities around the country people would be up in arms over "Manhattanization". It's a dirty word in San Francisco, nevermind the midwest.
Good for us, being able to recognize that a healthy and vibrant inner city is a positive thing, and knowing where to look to find one that currently does it better than we do.
Daniel, what about the local chain of high-quality restaurants/coffee bars Tryst, OpenCity, and the Diner? How about Sparky's or Swing's? What about Wagshalls, the various butchers in Eastern Market, and the variety of mom-and-pop bodegas in Northwest? What about Rodman*s? How about Patisserie Poupon? Then you've got Logan Hardware, 17th St. Hardware, Frager's Hardware (probably the best one), Candy's Hardware, etc.
True, DC doesn't have the density of local retail in Manhattan, but the city itself isn't anywhere near as dense, either.
There's lots of local retail business that can easily go head-to-head with NYC businesses, they're just not all on the same upper west side block.
There's not enough creative energy, art, edge, or sheer numbers of people for it to become like NY. That said, DC has so much going for it. And, having lived in both places, though the highs in DC are less high, the lows are less low, too. It's nice to not have to compete for money, space, time, resources, and everything else to the same degree as required in NY.
I don't want DC to Manhattanize. Or anywhere else in New York-ize. I consciously chose to live in D.C. because it WASN'T New York.
That said, I've always seen parallels between the four quadrants and the five boroughs. Northwest is obviously our version of Manhattan; Southwest, where I live, is suspiciously like Queens.
But to Daniel, who says that D.C. has never had a local flavor to overrun: I have to assume you don't live in the city, or you'd know better.
Only people who aren't originally from D.C. would argue that D.C. had no local flavor, as Daniel did above.
First of all, on our having no local cuisine -- what local cuisine does Manhattan have? And if clam chowder and Gray's Papaya counts, so do half-smokes.
Second, go-go music is no less legitimate for not being well known nationally. It's a big deal around here, and if you doubt that, go see Chuck Brown the next time he plays a free show somewhere -- you'll be shocked at how big a crowd he draws. Or look at the crowds Rare Essence used to draw for shows in an ugly government building on 14th Street, or how many street vendors sell live go-go concert CDs.
Third, and more importantly, this city used to have plenty of local stores and institutions, and in the last decade or so most of them have been swallowed up or crowded out by exactly the sort of corporations that come along with further Manhattanization. We used to have plenty of local chains around here -- Giant Food (pre-Ahold), Dart Drug, Crown Books, Hechinger's -- and local department stores -- Woodie's, Garfinckle's, Hecht's (used to be headquartered in Arlington). Nearly every CVS you see now used to be a People's Drug until the early '90s (except the ones that used to be indie movie theaters in Georgetown). Even the Whole Foods in the area used to be part of Fresh Fields, a local chain of organic grocery stores started in Rockville, Md., in the early '90s. We still do have some local bakers -- Firehook is a chain, yes, but a local chain; Mount Pleasant has Heller's, which has been there since 1928.
The same corporatization process that leads to development like what is going on near the MCI Center is what killed a lot of this local flavor -- but what makes you think the Manhattanizing corporations are going to be any less soulless than the ones that replaced our local D.C. institutions in the first place?
I like NY, that being said, DC is nice too. That said, I'm just saying. That said.
Articles like this are B.S. Who in DC said that we aspire to be like NYC?
It's just another way for some third-rate journalist to establish Manhattan as the control, as what every city should try to be, feeding into the aura and mystique thing--Yankees, Sinatra, yadda yadda yadda. Why did they pick as the criteria for being "like" New York the number of Jimmy Choo stores? Because NYC "wins" at that. What about most education per capita? We win at that. Median area income? I think we win at that. But no number creates the whole picture. The purpose is not to meaningfully compare, but rather to keep NYC as the gold standard.
As an example of how the story tries to promote the NY-as-epicenter theory, look at this:
"Million-dollar condominiums 'would have been unthinkable' five years ago, Mayhood said. He attributes the surge in prices partly to an influx of well-paid young lawyers at D.C. offices of New York firms."
Classic. The number of well paid lawyers in DC who are from NY firms is small, compared to the number at home-grown firms or firms from other cities. There has been no such influx in the past five years. There are more lawyers, but NY firms are not the driving force. And some of the best firms in the country are based here, spewing out rich lawyers.
Frank Rich, NYT hack, pulled the same trick a year or two after 9/11. My theory is that it's a response to the fact that Manhattan is not what it used to be, and in fact is in danger of losing gold standard status in a lot of ways. Times Square is the very symbol, along with the Hated Yankees, of corporate America. All the immigrants have moved to Jersey and all the artists have been driven out East Shithole. The older, monied class of writers and socialites is dying off, and the new ones don't interact with each other as much. Ground Zero is a mess and it's not clear how committed some of the financial companies are to Manhattan, esp. when their middle management can have a 20 minute commuted if they move operations to Conn. Manhattan is a great place. I love it. But it has a lot of problems. DC shouldn't emulate it, and it can't emulate it, given height restrictions. So why would we set it as the standard?
So, since the article is really about Manhattan, there's no reason to pay attention to it. In the spirit of discussion, however, here's my equally valid comparison: I've lived both places. I like DC better. Because I said so. Enjoy your beautiful day and the ones around you.
But to Daniel, who says that D.C. has never had a local flavor to overrun: I have to assume you don't live in the city, or you'd know better.
Agreed! Same goes to Rusty, who according to his blog, lives in Silver Spring. The article addresses the District, not the DC metro area. Anyone who would call the District sprawling needs to have their vision checked.
Let's not forget that go-go isn't the only indigenous music to D.C. We have one of the best and most respected indie-rock scenes in America. Hardcore and post-hardcore aren't well known outside of DC? Fugazi, Trans Am, and "Straight Edge" certainly seem to be.
I'd also point out that a great CP article a few years back identified "chicken with mambo sauce" as D.C.'s REAL local cuisine. It's under the radar, sure, but it's certainly a low-level District institution at this point.
In addition to gogo, DC spawned the harDCore punk movement with Fugazi, Minor Threat, Bad Brains, etc.
And DC will NEVER have a 24-hour subway because they don't have any third tunnels. After the Metro shuts down, maintenance crews do the standard patchup job to keep the system running for another 24 hours (mostly groundwater stopgaps on the red line). When Metro was first being proposed in the 1950s, they decided it wasn't worth the extra cost to have a 24-hour system. Now it's cost prohibitive.
Neighborhoods change. Give it enough time, an economic downturn, and the right mix of race-baiting and business-hostile legislation, and I'm sure Dowtown will go through another bust cycle like it did in the 1970s.
Same goes to Rusty, who according to his blog, lives in Silver Spring. The article addresses the District, not the DC metro area.
Aahhh, yes. This is the mistake that almost everybody seems to make: assuming that when we mention "D.C.," we're including the D.C. suburbs.
If Silver Spring counts as DC, then Newark counts as New York.
BTW, did they ever settle on a standard spelling of "mambo sauce?" I've seen "mumbo sauce", "mumble sauce," and "mombol sauce" depending on the establishment.
I'm willing to bet that the author of the article was actually thinking about the inner suburbs too. It's the same casual attitude towards geography that has newspapers nearly always refering to the Pentagon attack as occuring "in Washington" rather than Virginia.
Well, the article focuses on the rebirth of the District. Do our friends in the inner suburbs contribute to our retail and restaurant rebirths? Of course! But the redevelopment of the District is the central focus here.
Gee Rusty, you are going to have to try harder than that.
I would like DC to be more dense -- just driving around you see more detached homes than apartment buildings, and more office/retail space with setbacks or other "open" space. We could stand to tighten it up quite a bit.
As for the Bloomberg article, that's just hometown bias -- everybody thinks his local city is the best and most important and most familiar to everyone else. New Yorkers offend more egregiously than most, but you see the same thing in Chicago. If there's one aspect of Manhattanization DC should avoid, it's the delusion that the rest of the country thinks about, cares about or wishes it lived in your city.
oh no...not another new york vs. dc post.
decades ago they stories were: nyc is better than dc because, or dc does not have xxx like nyc.
now its: we have arrived, finally dc is like ny.
http://dcbubble.blogspot.com/2005/12/you-gotta-comment-yet-another-dc-vs.html
enough!
1. I live in Bethesda, not Silver Spring.
1(a). The Metro area is heavily influenced by the huge population of suburban commuters. The people who spend $$$ in DC are usually from MD and VA, and that can't be discounted. Sure NYC is influenced by NJ and CT, but not to DC's unique extent. DC, like it or not, is a commuter city.
2. I like Fugazi and Minor Threat and even some go-go (which i hadn't been exposed to until moving here), but those acts went out with the 80s. Since then DC has been a cultural wasteland (at least to outsiders). Manhattan is, and probably always will be, the cultural capitol of the world. DC can never live up to that.
Actually, the way that the author uses the word "manhattanization" is not exactly as people are saying here. He basically is just saying that DC is getting as expensive as NYC (especially in commercial and residential real estate) and a lot of stores that are quintessentially "Manahattan" are opening up shop here. That's it. There's no claim that DC is becoming Manahattan. It's just these two elements.
Also two more things:
1. The article specifically mentions Arlington and Chevy Chase. Certainly its primary focus is on Chinatown/Gallery Place/Penn Quarter (can't we just agree to one name? The Chinese Gallery? Gallery Quarter? Penntown?) it addresses the economy of the immediate DC Metro area as well.
2. The author is apparently based in Washington, so unless he's just visiting, I don't think he's necessarily displaying a NYC-bias. (Although he does seem to have a bias towards finance lawyers).
The Bloomberg article is dated February 3rd. DCist is a little behind on this one.
Daniel, what about the local chain of high-quality restaurants/coffee bars Tryst, OpenCity, and the Diner?
Can we please try not to confuse OpenCity and the Diner with places that serve good diner food? DC has a long way to go in that regard.
There's always Steak & Eggs if you want that "real" diner experience there Benjamin.
2. I like Fugazi and Minor Threat and even some go-go (which i hadn't been exposed to until moving here), but those acts went out with the 80s. Since then DC has been a cultural wasteland (at least to outsiders). Manhattan is, and probably always will be, the cultural capitol of the world.
And New York's cultural contribution since the 1980s is...what? Breakdancing? Cosmopolitans? Derivative us-vs-them Bloomberg articles?
How does the phrase "local chain of high quality restaurants/ coffee bars" imply that they serve good diner food? Obviously you have an axe to grind about the Diner, etc., but I don't think he made any claims that the Diner was a real diner, he just said that is a high quality place.
Besides, there are some good diners in DC and the immediate vicinity. There's the one on Wisconsin ( I forget the name). Then of course there's the great Tastee Diner in Bethesda and Bob and Edith's in Arlington.
We have no truly local cuisine, we have no locally originated music that is well known in most of the rest of the country
so let me get this straight...our food isn't local enough and our music is TOO local? which is it?
All, thank you so much for your thoughtful and articulate comments regarding this issue. While the article is indeed from earlier this month, the issue itself is not dated. We look forward to seeing where this heads in the future, and to reading more of your comments on the direction of our city.
In regards to great local spots/diners, the Florida Avenue Grill at 1100 Florida Ave NW is fantastic. And I saw Queen Latifah there a few months back.
Obviously you have an axe to grind about the Diner, etc., but I don't think he made any claims that the Diner was a real diner, he just said that is a high quality place.
Reid, usually you're a little less domatic. I don't have an ax to grind with the Diner. I just think it's overrated. If we want to talk about good dining establishments OR good diners in DC, that's a different topic. But the Diner and OpenCity do not belong in either of those categories, in my OPINION. Obviously, you have some problems with opinions :)
DC/NY comparisons are LAME. DCist, why must you drag this issue out every few months? It's boring, and the same people post the same stupid comments. A borf post last week, DC/NY comparisons this week, a Jonathan Rees post the other day. Stop recycling the same old crap.
AJS--as far as cultural contributions, hasn't NYC taken rampant scenesterism to aggressive and innovative new heights? Part of what fuels the illusion of NYC having a thriving music scene is how quickly everyone accepted the new Dress Up As If You Are In The Strokes instructions from their hipster overlords.
I mean, look what NYC's done to poor Ryan Adams!
While it's sometimes fun to throw out the NY vs. DC thing, that's not really the point of this post, at all. What the Bloomberg article is saying is that proper cities (New York, London, etc.) can support a certain level of dining, drinking, shopping, and residing that other major cities cannot. DC wasn't in that club; now we are. End of story.
To those who'd question the cultural contributions of DC I simply say, you don't know DC. You're not even trying. It's more than the great bands or notable performers that call DC home. DC is an idea that contributes to conversations in art, music, journalism, politics, television, film, and other media across the world. If you don't get it, if you can possibly call this place a wasteland, then I feel nothing but sorry for you.
And New York's cultural contribution since the 1980s is...what? Breakdancing? Cosmopolitans? Derivative us-vs-them Bloomberg articles?
Jay-Z, obviously. And Fiddy Cent.
Look--I'm a DC native, and I'm as frustrated as anyone that DC doesn't get the national cultural props that it deserves. But when people talk about cultural contributions, they're talking about a unique urban identity fostered by creative-minded locals. So Scorsese and Edith Wharton (and countless endless ad nauseum others) deliver NY to the rest of the county. Even Baltimore has John Waters & Barry Levinson. The very fact that you have to educate others about the DC cultural landscape is telling. DC (the city) has to mature in a manner that is distinct from the Federal District. I'm not saying it won't happen; I'm just saying that it hasn't happened, yet, in any meaningful way.
Benjamin I never said The Diner or OpenCity had good diner-style food. I said they serve high-quality food and they're locally owned.
When folks complain about how DC only has national chain restaurants, I often find it's because they only go to the national chains to eat.
There are plenty of cheap, great local DC restaurants, and the Diner and OpenCity, IMHO, are two of them. Also see: Colorado Kitchen, Bistro d'Oc, Mr. Henry's, etc.....
I said they serve high-quality food and they're locally owned.
Sorry. I wasn't clear enough. The first point is the one with which I disagree. I'm not a fan of the food, especially not for the prices. But again, just my opinion. To each, his own, especially when it coems to food.
"But again, just my opinion. To each, his own, especially when it coems to food."
Double true. I only brought up the ax grinding because I thought you were putting words into his mouth (i.e. "the Diner serves good diner food") just so you could criticize them (i.e. "no, it doesn't").
"Only people who aren't originally from D.C. would argue that D.C. had no local flavor"
A bit of a finger in the eye for my taste, but nicely said anyway.....
Ooh. I really like Vor's comment. That's a pretty astute, big-picture look at things. I think you're on to something that's worth reflecting on at length.
We can all sit down around the table and cherrypick through a list of bands we like or a hot gallery or a good restaurant or a great show. People who help produce cultural amenities in DC should do a lot more than simply hang out their shingle--they need to build cultural foundations--even before we get to the point where we're selling "DC" to the world.
EXAMPLE: Ask yourself, would Fugazi have gotten as well-known as they are without the culture of Dischord/Revolution Summer that came with it? Not just a band, a whole ethos that jacked into certain people's values.
When you live in a city where existing cultural infrastructure has long lived--like the film industry in LA and publishing in NYC, it allows for some short cuts. Elsewhere, you have to take some time to foster the groundwork. Look at the comedy scene in Chicago, or Saddle Creek in Omaha.
It can be done in Washington, given time and commitment. In fact, I've got faith that it'll get done.
But yeah, let's get the subway running a little later to begin with, shall we?
New York is the greatest city in the world, built on one of the best natural harbors in the world. DC is a shithole built on a swamp and covered in assy greco-roman architecture. End of story.
are you kidding me? this is a sleepy southern town with some halfway decent neighborhoods. the anything goes activities that you're suddenly learning about have been here for generations. ofcourse, i'm ancient and i remember 20 years ago when there were bootleggers selling corn liquor off the back of pickup trucks 10 blocks from the whitehouse and
it had nothing to do with marion barry.
Who was it that described DC has having the manners of the North and the efficiency of the South (or something to that end)?
Reid, it was JFK. He called DC "a city of Northern charm and Southern efficiency."
Jack, don't let the door hit you on the way out. That is, if you actually do live in the District..which I highly doubt..
its funny, most times i hear people dis DC,they live in the suburbs. No one i know that lives in DC hates it.
Also, any comparison of a city of 600,000 to a city of ...what it is ...about 20 million, seems idiotic to me.
There's always Steak & Eggs if you want that "real" diner experience there Benjamin.
You can add Florida Avenue Grill, Jimmy T's, and Wilson's Grill to the list, too -
I visit D.C. regularly, am in N.Y.C. two or three times a month. I live in Center City Philadelphia, which like D.C. has experienced population growth, skyrocketing real estate values/gentrification, and an influx of national chain merchants, all at the expense of it's "Philadelphianess".
The District isn't becoming more like Manhattan specifically, it's under pressure to become more like every other place dominated by well to do, educated, (mostly) white folks who demand a level of ease, comfort and consistency in daily living which is best achieved in a mall like setting; free from depressing poverty, boisterous iconoclasts, and unintelligible poorly dressed people eating strange smelling foods. It's the variety, energy, ingenuity and ideas of these groups, now largely vanished from Manhattan and increasingly squeezed out of Philly and D.C., which makes cities engines of cultural development and creativity. I hope that the citizens of Washington can develop ways to enjoy the ecconomic and "fun factor" benefits of growth without sharing poor New York's anemic fate; increasing social suburbanization driven by a culture of brand consumption and the pursuit of corporation controlled manufactured experiences. If you come up with anything, let us know. We're not having great luck up here in Philly.
The ethos of Dischord/Revolution Summer continues to this day, and it is a tradeoff - at least if you're looking for mainstream national recognition. Dischord doesn't do big-time promotion - it really doesn't do much promotion of any kind - and that ethos is central to the scene here, including the other labels that Dischord has inspired here. The focus is always on bands making music for music fans, but not necessarily the radio.
The positive of that is that bands get to develop without industry expectations or a focus on commercialization. Better music for all of us here and a solid top-to-bottom Fort Reno sked all summer. The negative is that bands that obviously deserve to be huge national acts - Fugazi, D-Plan, Q & Not U to name three - don't ever become really huge. Thus, no mainstream knowledge of the DC music scene.
Meanwhile, if you tried to find another US city that has had three live acts of that high quality in the last ten years, you'd fail.
That said, those three bands all had huge non-mainstream national followings. A lot of music fans know what DC's scene is about and follow it never having lived here a day in their life. I understand what vor is trying to say, but I think we do have an ethos in this city - at least when it comes to rock. The fact that the ethos isn't known by 28-year-olds who shop at Abercrombie and "rock out" to Coldplay and Nickelback shouldn't bother anyone. We get some great music despite the lack of recognition - and in some cases because of it.
It's true that DC does have some great local places, and I try to patronize them. Having them within my neighborhood would be preferrable.
It's also true that I have only lived in DC for 5 years. However, NOT being from here gives a different perspective. I think that anyone who is from somewhere else can tell you that the rest of the country couldn't, if pressed, identify one cultural theme that is quintessentially DC, besides politics, even after visiting.
I love DC for what it is. But I think it is more of a sponge of cultures, being influenced, rather than influencing. Is that a measure of a good or bad city? not necessarily. just an observation.
its funny, most times i hear people dis DC,they live in the suburbs. No one i know that lives in DC hates it. ... Also, any comparison of a city of 600,000 to a city of ...what it is ...about 20 million, seems idiotic to me.
Try 8 million. It's only 20 million if you include the burbs.
No local music? Are you kidding? Where are you from?
While Go-Go has and always will be heavily sampled by mainstream rap acts (Nelly's "Hot in Here" is a go-go song), "Grunge" was started in DC long before it became mainstream. Seattle just copied it, and the media happened to hit the right bands at the right time. But it was always DC music. And just about every Seattle band will admit as much.
Sub-Pop records based their business model solely on DC's "Dischord" rechord label, and Arlington's Fugazi was the influence for probably half of the "alternative rock" bands that came out in the 90's.
It is widely know that Seattle bands were trying to copy the DC "post-punk" sound when what became known as "Grunge" hit mainstream with Nirvana, etc.
Dave Grohl said the thing that Kurt Cobain first said to him was "You're from DC? Wow!".
They all wosrhipped this place for it's independent alternative music scene. Beginning in the 1970's, it is arguably the birthplace of "alternative rock" altogether.
No offense, but the "lack of a local music" thing was one of the most ridiculous statement made yet. Much of what you hear now in rap and rock has been taken straight out of the DC music scene, which claims deep roots in both white and black music, a feat few other cities have accomplished.
This is one of the most musically borrowed cities in the world.
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