February 20, 2006
Ralph Nader, Carpetbagger
Carpetbaggers are carpetbaggers, no matter how good their intentions may be. At least that's what NBC 4's Tom Sherwood wrote yesterday in a submission to The Mail, D.C. Watch's bi-weekly email newsletter:
Did we miss Mr. Nader’s becoming a legal resident of the District? The issue came up in 1998 when the national consumer advocate endorsed Anthony Williams for mayor. More recently, Nader has attempted to join the public debate on the baseball stadium. At the last check, Mr. Nader is a legal resident of Connecticut and pays his taxes to that state. It’s nice that anyone is interested in the well-being of District citizens and the financial accountability of our government, no matter what the issue. But it does seem a bit discordant for anyone outside the city -- Nader, President Bush, or the 534 members of Congress who deny us voting rights — to presume they know best for District citizens. And certainly it’s worth being a citizen here, one would think, for one who in fact lives here.How respond you, Mr. Nader?
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Lets stop feeling so abused...
Have you ever had an opinion on, say, Virginia's proposed same-sex marriage amendment? Or Texas executing a man with severe cognitive disabilities. Of course, most of us had. Thats not carpetbagging. Thats adding to the debate.
Carpetbagger?
Hillary Clinton... NOW that's a carpetbagger. And I don't care if she's a citizen of New York officially. She strategically moved to a place to run for office to climb the political ladder.
That is a carpetbagger.
Tom Sherwood's a fool for attacking probably one of the most constructive out-of-towners when it comes to issues affecting real people in local politics anywhere. Say what you will about his Presidential campaigns, but what he's done outside of those endeavors have benefitted us all.
I think it's fair to say that Ralph Nader has an opinion on everything. What I can't seem to figure out is why anyone still cares.
"But it does seem a bit discordant for anyone outside the city -- Nader, President Bush, or the 534 members of Congress who deny us voting rights — to presume they know best for District citizens."
Are you seriously telling me that people who live outside of the city, such as team owners, or suburban fans, should shut up?
Mr. Sherwood seems a little peeved that District residents don't have voting rights in Congress - of course he fails to mentions that Mr. Nader has been one of the leading advocates for DC Voting rights for many years now.
Mr. Sherwood might also note that Mr. Nader is likely commenting on behalf of his organization League of Fans. Not only is this group based in the District, and therefore likely paying its payroll taxes to the District - it also comments on all types of stadium deals, not just those within the District.
Maybe Tom has a bone to pick with Ralph, but this hardly seems like the approriate issue on which to do so.
Let's define our terms, I think this, from the Oxford American Dictionary fits well with what is commonly taught in school, and the broadest understanding. (Another definition seems to suggest carpetbagger includes people who went to the south to "do good," but all the examples I recall of the stereotype seemed to be opportunistic as this dictionary defines carpetbagger.)
carpetbagger |ˈkärpitˌbagər|
noun derogatory
a political candidate who seeks election in an area where they have no local connections.
• historical (in the U.S.) a person from the northern states who went to the South after the Civil War to profit from the Reconstruction.
• a person perceived as an unscrupulous opportunist : the organization is rife with carpetbaggers.
I don't think the hat fits.
I greatly admire and appreciate Nader's efforts on behalf of the District, but I think the first two commenters are missing the point.
D.C.'s most issue is with people who don't pay taxes here, who don't officially reside here, coming from their respective areas of residence and interfering freely with how this city operates.
I'm talking about the U.S. Congress, of course, but that description also applies to Ralph Nader, does it not?
It's not rocket science, it's not hypocrisy, and it's not an unfair request: if he cares so much about who runs the District of Columbia and how it spends its money, let him contribute to those things. Let him register to vote and pay taxes here.
That should have been "DC's most contentious issue." My bad.
Hi Ramon. Nice Johnathan Reese impersonation!
So, using the logic in the above comment, if I am a District resident and if I'm employed in the District, then I should only be active in causes that affect the District.
I guess I should write the Washington Post and demand a partial refund, since according to Mr West, I really only need a couple pages of the Metro section. That comment is essentially saying "Only worry about crap going on in your neighborhood. Everything else ain't your business." Should I not be concerned with how other American cities operate?
So, using the logic in the above comment, if I am a District resident and if I'm employed in the District, then I should only be active in causes that affect the District.
I guess I should write the Washington Post and demand a partial refund, since according to Mr West, I really only need a couple pages of the Metro section every day. That above comment is essentially saying "Only worry about crap going on in your neighborhood. Everything else ain't your business." Should I not be concerned with how other American cities operate?
Hi Ramon. Nice Jonathan Rees impersonation!
RE: "coming from their respective areas of residence and interfering freely with how this city operates..."
Well, one could argue in specific case of Nader that his actions in opposition of Congress and other work on the cause of voting rights and statehood have done as much as any particular Mayor has done for D.C. in enabling it to act freely. (Sure, that's subjective, but that he has acted to against special limitations to DC's soveriegnty.)
I hardly think Nader's opinion, which does not have the weight as legislation (and whatever weight it might have had seems to have waned in recent decades) counts as "interference." Congress can interfere in a much more real way.
Nader opinion is, as Bobby Q pointed out, just adding to the debate. An addition from a voice of experience from one point on the political spectrum -- and a voice of an ardent sports fan too, who does live in the district.
I think, thought it is just conjecture on my part, that Gaffbag is right, Sherwood has a bone to pick and perhaps the carpetbagger accusation is a straw man, and something of an ad hominem.
So, using the logic in the above comment, if I am a District resident and if I'm employed in the District, then I should only be active in causes that affect the District.
Um, I don't actually believe that that has anything to do with the logic in my comment, Mr. Q.
If you are a District resident and you're employed in the District, you can be as active in causes that affect Texas as you would like. Here's the difference: you are not taking advantage of the property, services, and elected officials of the state of Texas--things to which you made no direct contribution whatsoever--while simultaneously meddling with them.
If every day you were driving on Texas streets, using Texas public transportation, living under Texas rent control, and relying on the services of Texas police officers, utilities, sanitation, etc., then yes, it would be reasonable to expect you to pay Texas taxes and vote for Texas officials before you pontificate about how those things should be used.
I once had great respect for Nader. I haven't cared what he has had to say on any subject since he and his ego handed the 2000 election to the WPE (Worst President Ever). Anybody still think there is no difference between the parties?
Go away, Ralphie.
According to this: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/special/president/candidates/nader.html
Nadar rents/owns an aparmtment in DC. I think he said Georgetown or Dupont in an interview at some point. He may also live in Connecticut, but I'm pretty sure he's a DC resident -- at least some of the time.
If Sherwood is going to get technical about things he should probably get his math right: there are 535 members of Congress who haven't approved voting rights for DC residents. DC's delegate is not among that number, but part of the group of delegates along with those representing Guam, Samoa, the Virgin Islands & Puerto Rico.
KDC: You don't have to like Nader, but you seem to be more blatantly doing what Sherwood is doing: Not liking him for one reason and being dismissive of him on all other fronts.
Sherwood is a little more subtle. He presents an argument, although fallible, to discount Ralph Nader's point-of-view without actually addressing Ralph Nader's point of view.
I would love to find out what Ralph Nader said and what the other arguments are.
I tend not to agree with Ralph and his pseudo-socialist ideals, but Nader is no idiot when it comes to analysis of what is going on. His solutions are different than what I'd prefer.
And Ego? Of course. No shit.
Name one person who has run for President who doesn't have a massive ego. Seriously. Al Gore, Mr "I Invented The Internet" certainly has a bigger Ego than Nader. What else do you expect from ANY of them? Good lord.
Gore chose to lose that race. He could have fought harder for what was rightfully is. He capitulated to something in his long term interests.
Anyway: There were more Democrats in Florida who intentionally voted for Bush than there were Democrats who voted for Nader, making the accusation Nader spoiled anything double-bunk.
We get what we deserve.
I also used to respect Nader, but since 2000 and 2004, it's obvious he's an selfish, egocentric maniac, willing to trash the entire nation for his own personal aggrandizement. Nothing that he has ever done, or ever will do as a private citizen can compare to the harm he's done to us all a few years back. He should be snubbed by all DC residents, well, except maybe for the current occupant of the White House.
Brian,
Nader does live in D.C., but that's not the same as being a legal resident of D.C. He is registered to vote in Connecticut and also pays Connecticut state taxes; for all official purposes, he's a Connecticut resident.
"Meddler" or "tax avoider" may be more appropriate terms than carpetbagger. But, I don't think that diminish Sherwood's or DCist's point.
One of our number writes, "Tom Sherwood's a fool for attacking probably one of the most constructive out-of-towners when it comes to issues affecting real people in local politics anywhere." To paraphrase a quote Marion Barry made about another out-of-town meddler (Jesse Jackson): "Ralph don't want to run nothin' but his mouth."
I'm pretty sure he's a legal resident of D.C. He was called for jury duty (and showed up) the same day as me at the courthouse on Indiana Ave. a couple years ago.
Now, really. I am not going to fault Nader for either the 2000 or 2004 elections. For one thing, he didn't cost Gore the 2000 election; Gore WON the 2000 election. For another thing, if Ralph Nader attracted a segment of liberal voters that liked him better than Gore and/or Kerry, that's not his fault, that's Gore's and/or Kerry's.
Come on, Nader didn't force anyone to vote for him. Those who did were, in their way, sending a message to the Democrats. And rather than actually take the opportunity to adapt their platform to win back those voters in '04, the Democrats decided to simply demonize Nader. They've done far more damage to their cause than Ralph ever did.
The Washington Post Sunday magazine did an extensive feature on Ralph Nader in the early 90's. It mentioned how he lived somewhere in Dupont Circle (wouldn't disclose exactly where), didn't own a car (oh how green!) and wouldn't eat tunafish that wasn't dolphin safe, blah blah.
I've always thought he was a District resident since I assumed he was involved with lobbying and activism, and he is a lawyer after all. But can you honestly blame him for keeping "official" residence in a state where he can still vote? I'd do the same. Lack of voter rights is one of the top reasons I would never live within DC proper.
Why do you think Jeb and "W" Bush chose Florida and Texas for the political starts? Because neither state levies a state income tax of course. And while on the subject of Carpetbagging, I always thought George Allen was a carpet bagger, when he moved back from California to Virginia, to run for Governor in the early 90's. When I see that man I think "snake oil salesman".
I couldn't blame Nader for keeping his official residence elsewhere, if that were the end of it. But if part of what he does in this "unofficial" residence is to bitch about how the city spends tax dollars that he didn't pay, then yes, I'm going to fault him. When he speaks for the DC taxpayers (as he did in his official statement regarding the stadium lease), he is speaking neither for himself nor for anyone who asked him to speak for them. That's simply arrogant.
no one has yet to discuss the ideas asserted from any part, regardless of their apparent "right" based where they come from or vote, on their own merits.
good fucking lord.
this is why the planet is going down the tubes. sordidly pathetic attempts to apparently preserve a precious absolute degree of territorialism while letting the problems and the problem-makers get away from us.
i mean, fuck, hating ralph nader and making some petty argument about where he is from is not getting anyone anywhere. it is totally besides the point of the problem there apparently was some actual discourse regarding somewhere that ralph nader dared enter in to.
we get too distracted too easily.
hey look kids - a shiny quarter! go scramble after it while i go do something offensive to your mother.
it is not arrogant to engage yourself in something you care about voluntarily. and to use an argument nader might despise - the non-profit corporations he has headed and heads (and has seedd with his own money) are taxpayers in d.c., as an individual living in dc, he pays sales tax. he is a tax payer.
to throw smarmy comments and curse words around aimlessly (like me) is arrogant.
for anyone to wait for an invitation or permission is to wait for hell to freeze over.
Ralph Nader is Lebanese-American! Did you guys know that?
My peeps!