June 23, 2006
Meter? I Don't Even Trust Her Fare System.
Written by DCist Tom Lee, on the road in the wilds of western North Carolina.
It seems like there's been a lot of taxi-related news this week. Today the trend continues: the Post is reporting on the latest footnote to D.C.'s byzantine taxi system. It seems that Yellow Cab is testing out meters in its fleet -- but not the time & distance-based kind enjoyed by other cities. Instead, the new devices stick with the zone system, but use GPS to ensure it's properly applied.
As Yellow Cab general manager Roy Spooner says:
"If you listen, people aren't really saying they want meters... they want fair and consistent prices."Color us spectacularly unconvinced. Try listening even more carefully, Mr. Spooner: we want time and distance-based meters.
Don't get us wrong -- GPS enforcement of the zone system would certainly be an improvement over the status quo. And we know that the zone system has some fans. But for many more it's simply confusing and irritating -- and, for those of us who don't use cabs at rush hour, almost entirely without benefit. Mostly, we just can't shake the sense that D.C. cabs are less fairly-priced than those in other cities. The zone system is at least partly to blame for that. GPS zone enforcement may save riders from crooked drivers, but it won't do anything to protect them from the zone system itself.
Still, we're willing to throw this open to our readers for their opinion. Click here to vote in today's online poll, and let us know which fare system you prefer.
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the zone system is consistent. in new york i've paid different valid prices for the same trip on many occasion.
once you know this city, the prices don't change and if someone tries to rip you the argument is easy to win.
i suppose people who are travelling some sort of short distance that might fit inside a zone if it were elsewhere in the city, but in their case crosses a zone line, would prefer a meter system with rates tht would make that trip cheaper.
but in cases where it isn't worth it to take a cab in our current zone system i find it's generally not worth it to take a cab, period.
My whole complaint with zones is that they're not more expensive (probably see some fares more expensive), but with zones you have semi arbitrary rates-- and you won't have to negotiate rates as if you were in Thailand-- hell they have meters in Thailand
Meters are not arbitrary.
Meters are the way to go.
Will the GPS calculate the beginning and end points of the trip? Or will they calculate how many zones you have traveled through?
Let's say you begin in one zone and end in another -- you've been in two zones. What if the cabbie takes a route that goes through a third zone? Will the GPS calculate that as three zones?
Damnit, I live in VA -- though I understand the basics of the zone system I might be missing some of the finer points of it.
The system calculates fare based only on starting and destination zone. So if the driver can't try to cheat you by driving through extra zones.
Taxis should charge based on distance and time spent getting there. Why do we need to have a complicated system when nearly the rest of the civilized world has this figured out???
I live in eastern Cap Hill near RFK. It costs exactly the same for me to take a cab from Union Station to my house as it does to go from Dupont Circle to my house. That just doesn't make sense - especially since during rush hour the latter can take 25 minutes more than the former.
Maybe 3/4 of the time the cabbie asks me on arriving at my house how much the fare should be. It's ridiculous.
I disagree with a previous poster who thinks that since s/he has figured out the zone system, it should stay. How many millions of visitors come to DC each year?
Finally, I'd be much more inclined to take a cab to VA if there was a sensible way to know what the fare should be. For DC cabs, if the zone system is so great, why doesn't it extend out of DC?
Meters are the only way to go. There's no way a 10 block trip should cost $6.50.
By the way, what does "ASS'N" stand for anyway? Every time I see a DC cab it looks like it says assasin on the side.
I've seen the way they drive...maybe they are trying to kill us.
I'm with J on this one. A lot of it will depend on your ability (and willingness) to be informed. Visitors and locals alike should do their homework.
Hell, there's a website that more or less calculates your fare before you leave the house. My only wish would be that the cab would carry a detailed map, and not that worthless piece of trash on the back of the front seat.
Meters aren't arbitrary, but cabbies can be. On Saturday night in metered-taxi Baltimore, the drivers will always take you through heavy traffic on a trip from Fells Point to Midtown, unless you alert them to a cheaper route that they knew in the first place.
And a meter didn't keep a cabbie in NYC from threatening me and a friend when we gave him a fare corresponding to the actual trip, not the rip-off job he tried to pull.
So something tells me that any shady cabbie in DC is licking his or her lips at the prospect of a traditional meter system. In other words, you don't know how good you have it.
The way traffic in the city can change from minute to minute, I'm for the zone system, but with the GPS based fare calculators so the cabbie can't even think about trying to screw you over. With a distance-based meter I don't want to get stuck by a friggin motorcade or police blockade and have to pay more.
The article says the driver can't cheat you by wandering through extra zones. I like that, since with a meter the driver *can* cheat you by bumping a few extra dollars onto the meter (I've had this happen in other states, though never here) or just taking the long way around.
J/Chris,
You are both correct that pretty much no system exists where a cabbie can't try to rip you off.
Still...
I have a pretty good sense of the zones and typically understand what my fare should be, but, to play devil's advocate:
1) Why? Why should I have to engage the cab driver in an argument to get the correct fare? Yes, it's an easy argument to win, but why should I have to worry about it? Why should I have to do research everytime I'm thinking about taking a cab to determine what the correct fare should be? What if I wasn't planning on taking a cab and suddenly I have to hail one? Most of just want to get in a cab and get where we are going, not stress about planning the route or psyching ourselves up for the inevitable confrontation when we get there.
2) Let's not confuse "arbitrary" and "consistent". Of course your fare isn't always going to be exactly the same for an identical trip with a meter - no one is arguing that it is. If traffic is heavy, your trip is going to take longer, but with a meter, there is something in front of me to tie the fare out to, thus it is not arbitrary. Now, in theory, the zone system should NOT be arbitrary and SHOULD be consistent, but the reality is that its neither. A meter would at least address one of these.
The real reason the cabbies don't want to change to meters is that then all of their revenue is reported...and taxed. They can report whatever they want with the current zone system.
It's time for the archaic zone system to go!
The zone system is arbritrary and unfair to anyone who lives with 4-5 blocks of a zone boundary.
Like the poster who lives on Cap Hill, I live about 2 blocks north of Fla Ave in Adams Morgan. It costs me more to ride from Dupont Circle home than it costs for me to ride from Dupont to Union Station. How come?
And the argument that visitors need to research the city and their potential cab routes before setting foot in a cab...ridiculous!
Face it, the only reason the zone system fits Washington well is because it's like everything else in this city....understandable and rewarding to insiders but a byzantine rip-off for anyone else.
When you're vacationing, you're researching hotels, restaurants, sightseeing, etc. I don't know why it's an extra labor to look at a map that will likely save you money.
I do think someone made a good comment about the reason why DC cabbies might prefer the current system, but that's between them and the tax board.
what's the site to calculate fares?
The zone system is easy if you have enough brain cells to breathe and chew gum at the same time. If not, well then no system is going to help you.
The GPS device sounds like an ideal third way, for those drunk skunks who can't figure out why it's taking so much longer to haul their ass from St. Ex back to Columbia Heights.
The zone system clearly has winners and losers. Being a winner, I like the zone system. I do think the extra-passenger charge should be reduced or eliminated, we should be encouraging people to ride together. Same goes for the dropping someone off on the way charge (always calculated as two separate trips.)
But I do have one question about meters - aren't they expensive? Seems like a lot of money to spend installing electronic equipment that could better be spent on new cabs/seat covers/ carpet cleaning...
I like the current system, believe it or not. If you're local, you can figure out the system, including the loopholes (i.e., have the cab stop a block south of Florida Avenue and walk two blocks north to your destination), without much trouble.
If you're not local, you're a tourist, and if the taxicabs didn't rip you off every so often, they'd probably have to raise rates across the board. The zone system is a little like a commuter tax.
And dropping the zone system probably won't lead to lower fares overall. The cab companies have a business plan: so much in revenue, so much in expenses. Switching to meters will actually increase their expenses, if anything. They'll need essentially the same revenue per ride to keep in business, so they'll price their rates accordingly.
Alternatively, DCTC could set the flag drop, mileage and time in traffic charges low enough that the cab companies will have to take a revenue cut. In which case, expect a lot of cabs to go out of business -- running a taxi is the kind of job with long hours and razor-thin margins, which is why it's the sort of job that gets left to immigrants. Its easy to forget that the District has the nation's highest cabs per capita ratio, which makes finding one when you need one really easy. I'd like to keep it that way.
(Full disclosure and disclaimer: I have had professional dealings with the DCTC. The views above are my own and are not necessarily shared by my employer.)
The zones suck. I have lived here for over 10 years now, in both DC and NOVA, and DC cabs with their zones for the most part always rip you off. So knowing the zones, and being assertive with the cab drivers over this should not be that much work. I take cabs regularly, and know the zones and the rules for driving from DC to VA, and always get into a fight with a cabbie. If you take a cab from DC to Arlington for instance, it is supposed to be based on a mileage calculation. I know the fare for a certain route should always be 12.50. I get 15, 18, once 25 requested. Meters are straight forward, and work. Zones only invite trouble, and have been screwing me for years. What are the DC cab drivers so afraid of? Red Top Cab has no problem with them.
For the person inquiring about the fare calculator, here it is...
http://citizenatlas.dc.gov/atlasapps/taxifare.aspx
Sweet, that helped me confirm I paid the proper amount during a taxi ride home from the Hill after a few too many drinks last week. Maybe I finally understand the zone system.
I thought the complaint was about the cost of the meters to install being a burden on drivers. Now it's somehow more feasible to spend R&D on a completely new meter system which will undoubtedly cost more per car than existing meters to stick to a ridiculous system? Just simplfy simplify simplify!
Oh, and depending on traffic, you could easily pay $6.50 to go 10 blocks when you add in the base fare. I think many people think their fares will get cheaper when in fact they will become higher. But then we have a more equitable system so it all balances out, right?
Having just come back from NYC, I'd much rather have the NY system. Fare system - I can go three times as far in NY for the same amount as I pay here. And there the city monitors the cabs via the medallion system - they don't just give out a hack license to any loser that shows up in a 1983 Buick with no shocks, speaking no English and unable to find the White House.
DC has one of the most unprofessional cab systems in the known world in large part because we refuse to view it as an integral part of public transportation. Instead, it's viewed as a job source for low skilled immigrants. While I'm all for low skilled immigrants finding jobs, turning the cab system over to them isn't the way. I've been in so many DC cabs that are death traps, with sqealing brakes and no shocks, with a cabbie that literally can't find major parts of town, that I know we can do better.
It's not a starter-job opportunity. It's an integral part of our public transit system. License it, give out only a certain number of hack licenses, and for the love of all that's holy make cabbies get modern, decent, standardized vehicles.
I'm fairly sure ASS'N stands for "association"...
One of the reasons DC went with the zone system in the first place (in addition to it benefitting Congressmen who used them primarily to get around the Hill), is because most cabbies were rigging the meters to rip customers off. And with a grand total of 4 hack inspectors for all DC, there was little likelihood of prosecution. So DC goes to zones, doubles their hack inspectors to 8, and people still think they're being ripped off.
Why does this have to be either/or? Why don't they just mandate that 50-percent of a hack fleet has to have meters, and the rest stick with the zone system. So you can pick and choose which method you prefer to patronize.
I'd be happy with a cab that didn't smell like B.O.
Off topic. I just realized you guys love some catch phrases. And I have the proof.
DC cabs are inequitable to the vast majority of riders. Further, the service is terrible.
I say don't tip any taxi until we get a meter system. Why tip someone for consistently trying to rip you off and giving such poor service.
Further, this GPS meter is horrible idea. Simplify the system and go with time/distance meters, just like everywhere else.
I'm going to add $.02 more. I live in Alexandria, conveniently off of 395 at the Shirlington exit - and yet many times I have been denied rides from DC cabs back to my house, particularly while in Adams Morgan or Dupont Circle. The times that I have had a cabbie who will agree to the ride, often they request a fare of $30 - $35 for the trip - some ask before we leave, others ask when they drop us off. The same route in reverse and in a Alexandria or Arlington based cab costs $22 - $25, not including tip (remember, these are on a meter). It has now come to a point where we offer $30 to DC cabbies from the start so that we don't have to haggle once we get to our destination.