August 20, 2006
Opinionist: D.C. Youth Speak Out Against the Crime Bill
Editors Note: This week's opinion piece comes to us from the young people at Youth Action Research Group in Washington, D.C. A youth membership based organization, YARG organizes young people in the city to change policies around issues that affect the city's under represented youth population. Currently, they are working on improving D.C.’s youth employment training and placement programs. The following editorial was written by Jose Andrade, age 19, Nancy Cruz, age 16, Adriana Reynoso, age 18, Victor Benitez, age 16, Jacinta Wood, age 18, and Tiffany Jones, age 17.
We are youth organizers from the Youth Action Research Group in Washington, D.C. YARG is an organization mostly staffed by youth. We have one adult that works here and there will be another adult starting this fall. We have 6 youth staff and 50 members.
This emergency crime bill that the mayor passed was a shock. Why was a crime emergency called after someone was murdered in Georgetown? Not that it was good that someone was killed, but people in other D.C. neighborhoods deal with friends and family being killed every day and it’s not considered a crime emergency.
To us, It seems like only youth were blamed for what D.C. police are calling a sharp increase in crime when it is mostly adults who commit violent crime in D.C. Only one youth has been charged with homicide in D.C. this year. We feel, it’s easy to blame youth and put all these rules on us because we can’t vote. Besides, the things they put into place aren’t going to work. They haven’t yet; it’s almost been 30 days and people are still being killed in D.C.
The curfew of 10 p.m. wrongly punishes all youth. Young people who are out on the streets late at night and doing wrong are going to be out even if there is a curfew. The youth the curfew affects the most are the majority of us that are not out doing anything wrong. A 10 p.m. curfew means that we can’t go to an 8 o’clock movie without adult supervision. We are on lock down in our own city.
The cameras that the crime bill calls for also make no sense. Why is the city going to spend millions of dollars on a strategy that is not supported by research and has not been proven to work in other cities? A lot of people in D.C. neighborhoods have been saying that cameras are going to work and that they want them in their neighborhoods. They probably wouldn’t think that if D.C. Council members told them how well they have worked in other cities.
The other thing that the crime bill does is make it so that cops can look into youth’s records and hold them without bond. Cops can also tell principals about a youth’s suspected involvement in a crime and they can be expelled from school. That is the last thing that is going to help youth stay out of trouble. Isn’t our justice system supposed to be innocent until proven guilty? This crime bill makes it so that all youth in D.C. are considered guilty until they or their lawyers prove them innocent.
If D.C. wants to help keep us safe and out of trouble, what we really need is the city to invest more in us instead of in locking us up. D.C. spends $150,000 dollars per youth they lock up at Oak Hill, D.C.’s juvenile detention center; and only $12,000 per youth trying to get an education in DC public schools. The crime bill spends $2 million on cameras and $8 million to pay cops for overtime.
All this money is going for ‘crime prevention’ strategies that don’t work even in the short term, when it could be better spent on long term strategies that we know help youth, like making sure we get a good education at schools that aren’t falling apart and have no air conditioning in 80 degree weather and job training programs that prepare us to have good paying jobs in D.C. when we are older.
This Wednesday, August 23, 2006 from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. at Freedom Plaza, D.C. youth will have a rally to speak out against the Mayor’s Emergency Crime Bill and talk about what youth think are real solutions to youth violence. Come out to our rally and learn more about what youth think are solutions to crime in D.C. and what we are doing address youth violence. We are not criminals.
To learn more about the young leaders at Youth Action Research Group, visit their blog.
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This reminds me of when I was a kid and I was amazed at the stupidity of adults. Actually, I'm still amazed.
stupid observation: the word 'youth'. it just seems like it's being used a lot more than it used to. i guess calling people under 18 'kids' or 'children' just isn't PC these days, but 'youth' and 'the youth' sounds kind of weird to me. just sayin'
I dunno... I'd say it's partially to keep them off the street so they can't cause a problem, but also to keep them off the street so they're safe.
Reminds me of what happened while I was in college. I graduated in '05 from a school that bordered a high crime neighborhood, and the "neighborhood" would creep in from time to time, causing a lot of local resident on student violence and theft. Finally, the school started putting surveilance cameras everywhere, and guess what happened? Students started getting nailed for petty alcohol and disorderly conduct violations, with new video evidence. No local residents were ever convicted as a result of the cameras. but all the concerned parents seemed just giddy about them.
Sometimes people just like to be told what they want to hear.
To the authors...I would welcome all of you to hang out in Shaw sometime if you want to see some of the "youth" behaving badly. From open air drug markets at 7th and o to the rampant gang activity in Kelsey Gardens, Gibson Plaza and a few other addresses in the neighborhood.
I have had 3 neighbors mugged...all by kids. One was shot...
But the grandaddy of all quotes from this story:
"...and only $12,000 per youth trying to get an education in DC public schools"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Only 12K...only! I would like to let you know that this figure is one of the highest in the Nation. Maybe we should look at the parents in DC...they do not control their children and they could care less about actually encouraging them to get something out of school!
Sorry that you have to stay home with your family. but it will let me and my neighbors walk to the 7-11 at 11pm without getting mugged.
Give me a break. Since the beginning of time, the few rotten apples have always been ruining things for the good ones. I, for one, feel better about my evening quality of life with the curfew. Families have to learn to spend more time together, talking and learning about each other, instead of allowing the streets to raise their children. Maybe they will actually positively influence each other.
I have friend that is an MPD official and he told me that a good number of the nuisance crime, vandalism, petty theft, unauthorized use of a vehicle, assault, etc is done by youth. Check out the MPD website (www.mpdc.dc.gov-note the numbers in the juvenile robbery, carjacking, and weapons categories) for the reports. He also told me that the lax court system allows these nuisance children to be released immediately back into the community. At least with the curfew, the parents have to be "inconvenienced" if Little Johnny gets picked up. I live in SE and I can tell the difference.
My last thought is that good kids and their parents shouldn't mind. They probably aren't out at that time and if they are, their parents/guardians shouldn't mind making sure Little Ricky is safe and playing by the rules.
Uh oh... there was another violent crime in Georgetown over the weekend. Better move that curfew up to 1pm. Can't let those youths run around at all hours of the afternoon.
Sorry, kids, I have no sympathy. Juvenile crime IS a problem in DC and while the curfew may not solve the problem entirely, it certainly sends a message that children should not be out after 10pm.
Perhaps you should be focusing on your studies, not on "fighting" for your right to see a movie after 10p.
DC has a long history of punishing everyone for the crimes of a few. Look at the gun ban, or the bans on damn near everything you can use to defend yourself (stun guns, pepper spray, etc).
And while theoretically kids should be spending time with their parents, that's kinda tough when there is no father and mom has to work 3 jobs and doesn't get home until 11pm.
And yeah, that $12k per kid figure is a riot. These are the same people who claim we're just not spending enough on education. How much is enough? $24k per student? Thing is, three-quarters of that money gets spent on admin, and promotions for Deputy Assistant Secretary to the Deputy Assistant Vice Principal for Self-esteem Awareness because he can't be expected to live on less than $120k a year.
Me thinks that when that working parent gets home at 11 pm, since Little Johnny is home too, that gives them some time to bond and find out about each other's lives.
To B. Smith:
Why should the neighborhood have to change because you moved in?
I'm absolutely fed up with people who move into Shaw, Columbia Heights, Georgia Ave. etc and expect the entire hood to treat them like royalty. What absolute rubbish. DC is a big city, and big city shit happens sometimes. I'm not supportive of open air drug markets or gang activity, not one bit. But to complain about it using the tone that you used BSmith...well it reeks of some whiny professional who wants his new residence to be like Rockville or Arlington.
I'm still pretty disgusted that DC will spend more money on a baseball stadium (for a shite team) than actually investing in its own infrastructure. DC schools still have outdated textbooks, abominable facilities and teachers who could really give a toss what happens to Mookie and Big C in the back of the room.
And to all of you who think that children should be forced to stay at home, you were obviously never kids. What about those kids w/summer jobs? Aren't they entitled to see a movie at 930pm? What about shows at Black Cat/930/Fort Reno.
It's getting the point where I'd support wanton acts of violence to remind people where they're at. If you don't like it...commute.
What's up with posts not appearing, DCist? I posted a comment to this thread late last night, and it hasn't in fact made it onto the board.......
I don't believe my post crossed any lines of decorum or decency... what's up with that?
jason--it may have had something to do with the continuing server problems we're having on the site. it causes small hiccups sometimes. feel free to re-post your comment. thanks!
K,
So I take it you are okay with things like gang violence and drug dealing? I have lived in this city for over 15 years and I have never lived in a neighborhood where the residents were okay with crime...so please try and loose the "yuppie moves in" speech. I was merely showing that kids are part of the problem. And the invitation is still open even to you.
Second, on the baseball stadium...different topic...but I will bite. Do you remember what Chinatown was like pre MCI/Verizon Center? I do... As for the textbooks and other "issues" in the school system...how about better oversight as to how $$$ is spent? But I do not have to worry about it because according to you I am moving to Rockville.
Finally the last point of your little bash...the whole "what if they have summer jobs" point that seems to be the only issue the media wants to talk about. Well...there is a little sentence in there that if they can prove they are coming from their job it is okay. As for the 930/BlackCat/Ft Reno...oh well...more room for those Yuppies.
Just a thought.....
Would this same curfuw rule apply to a Georgetown Freshman who is underage? (A lot of freshman are still 17 when they enter freshman year of college)
I woud be interested to see the figures of curfuw arrests made in Woodley Park/Georgetown/Tenleytown vs. Anacostia/Shaw/NE/SE. These college kids Im sure are out past ten, so that would "technically" be breaking the curfuw law.......
This curfew is a terrible idea. It really doesn't do much to prevent adults from committing crimes, does it? But: adults vote. Kids don't. This is a dirty bandaid on a hemorrhaging wound.
A curfew will have the same deterrent effect on youths going out at night that laws against mugging and selling drugs have on people who really, really wnat to mug people and sell drugs. If someone's going to break the law, they're gonna break the law. Why not address the real problem?
Crime is one of those "icky" subjects because its spirals us towards the even "icker" subjects of social inequality, race, class, and now age.
We all want safer communities. No one condones crime, but how we get there is the quinessential question. Some of the solutions offered by the City Council are fluff, they know it but wont admit in an election year. It is a waste of money.
By virtue of our age, as adults arent we supposed to be smarter and wiser than our children or youth? In all of our brilliance, all we could come up with is more cops, cameras, courts and violating confidentiality.
More cops assumes that they are doing a good job, if they were doing that, we wouldn't have a "crime emergency". Constrastly, I hear the opposite arguement when asking for more money for schools and rec centers. "We give them enough money all ready, they need to manage it better" is often the retort. The response doesnt even arise when talking about the police. MPD has yet to meet its current hiring goals for years. Does the need for more officers and a small pool applicants then lead MPD to lowering the hiring standards? Rod-ney King
Cameras, everyone touts England on this one. Cameras failed to stop a terrorist attack, nor were camera a critical part of foiling the lastest terror threat. Cameras are to us what that blanket was to Linus.
Locking up youth for longer periods of time when they have NOT been convicted of a crime is un-American and something i would expect to hear the Taliban and not from hard-working American citizens!! Violating human rights is not the American way!!
The same goes for confidentiality! Giving police access to juvenile records, when they are supposed to be closed, is down right unconstitutional!!
Ben Franklin said it best, "fish and visitors smell in three days." No, no that wasn't it. Here it is:
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
My only contribution to this conversation is to propose that the curfew only apply to anyone who can't spell it.
Again, in my SE neighborhood where youthful crimes are in abundance, we are getting a reprieve from kiddie "mischievousness". If kids are out after 10, they get picked up. Pure and simple. Yes, adults are committing a large portion of the crimes, but before this crime emergency, juveniles breaking the law were only getting a slap on the wrist and a "don't do it again little Johnny". Now we can work to identify and save some of these lost souls before they become adults and end up really menacing our neighborhoods. Like my MPD friend said. We need to stop treating these kids with gloves. Car theft is not a kiddie joyride. Vandalism is not an artful form of expression of their anger. It is against the law. I for one am sick of the kids being allowed to act like they want, drop trash on my yard (that I have to pick up every day when I get home), curse and use profanity in front of my elderly neighbors, play that crap they call music (I am a child of MTV/80's and MY generation started rap), roam the streets in gangs, etc. I am sick of it.
I volunteer with foster children. I understand why some of these children act like they do. BUT, I also know that it takes a village to raise a child, and right now the village is being run by the children and we need to take that village back. They need to learn for every action there is a consequence. Pure and simple.
That's a REALLY good question, FairfaxGuy. I somehow assumed this only applied to people 16 and under (don't know why, just did).
Oh, and K, your ghetto attitude is why I'm seriously contemplating moving to Maryland and being done with this crap. You don't like whitey moving into Shaw and complaining about the crime? Well, I don't like black people jumping my ass as I'm minding my own business. You don't like my white attitude? Tough - white people live in DC. It's the seat of the federal government. Don't like it? Move to Detroit or Newark. See -- it works both ways.
The difference is: whitey can go away to the suburbs, or to another city, and take his tax revenue with him. But, as a previous poster on another thread pointed out, DC didn't exactly have much success trying to run a city on the tax receipts from cheap liquor stores and hair weave salons. See, you need whitey WAY more than whitey needs you. Try running Mookie and Big C's schools without us.
Further, can Gothamist not afford to get a single capable tech on the payroll? This inability to sort out something as simple as comments is pretty pathetic. I assume that professional-level tech support of the site is one of the reasons that all of the DCist contributors work for this place. But if they can't provide that, why stick around? You're only a Wordpress install away from recreating the same value at another URL. Jump on it, Gothamist. This is sad.
Even though that this is a city wide law, I have huge doubts that kids in NW have to worry about the curfew. As I have said before, and this is just a simple observation, that someone who lives in NW DC, either a college student at AU or GU, and 17 years old, will probably not be arrested for curfew. On the other hand, a poor kid in SE/NE will probably get arrested. Or how about VA/MD kids shopping in G-Town after 10 PM?
I dont mean this to sound racist/classist/whatever else, but I think thats probably the truth. I understand that most of the crime takes place in SE/NE, however if it is a DC wide law it needs to be enforced all over, Allthough this probably wont happen.
Any thoughts people?
Further,
One problem with one comment doesn't merit the sort of vicious tirade you seem to have thought necessary. The situation with comments is simple -- we rarely, if ever, moderate or delete them. Then again, we do have spam filters that usually stop comments with multiple links in them from publishing. If that happens to non-spam comments, we tend to act on them as quickly as possible and publish them. You may think this means we don't have any capable techies on staff, but you're wrong -- we're merely saving people who want to comment from wading through the hundreds of offers for Cialis, penis enlargements, and weight-loss pills that come through here each hour.
YOUTH CURFEW NOT STRICT ENOUGH
BSmith & SE DC, thanks for having the courage to say what’s on my mind! I know I feel safer at night without loud-mouthed kids on the streets. I’m not sure we’ve gone far enough though – FBI statistics show that most juvenile crime & victimization happens between 3-6 pm. If the City Council had any political courage at all they would have imposed a 3 pm curfew. Young people should be doing their homework in the afternoons anyway, not going to sports practice or making trouble like the young people who started this post.
I know studies show that curfews don’t reduce crime, but they sure make me feel better! I think if someone on the Council wants to show REAL leadership they should escort young people from school directly to jail when the bell rings. I know I’d feel safer walking to 7-11!
ADULT CURFEW SHOULD BE CONSIDERED
I also can’t help but notice that 94% of all arrests & 82% of violent arrests this year in DC were committed by adults (see Justice Policy Institute). I humbly offer it to public consideration that we expand the curfew to apply to adults, who are obviously running rampant on our city streets with no respect for the law. They have to learn somehow! I hope City Council will consider this modest proposal when they revisit the crime bill this fall.
Ann-I think I love you.
DCist Martin- Vicious? Really? You ought to get out a bit more. And "one problem with one comment"? Are you kidding me? Comments on this site have be @#)(*@#@ for weeks now, if not more than a month. Don't believe me? Post a survey.
The "good" kids that are temporarily inconvenienced by the curfew will soon get over this short period in time. All of today's youth need to learn about consequences. They need to learn that the actions of a few can influence the larger group. Maybe there can be some positive peer pressure shown by the law-abiding kids and leadership shown by these same kids to the "bad" ones.
As I stated before, I am sick of it and don't apologize for my opinions.
Wow. Simmer down there, tiger. We've had a few server issues, no doubt, but those have been resolved. I personally commented myself a few times last week, and had no problems. Please stay on topic. If you want to discuss this further, feel free to email me.
"Simmer down there, tiger"?
I always have trouble posting comments. Usually that "sending..." animation stays on forever and I get some sort of timeout message. Is there a keyword blocking system that would cause this?
Further evidence of this is the fact that I just tried to send this message and it didn't work. I am telling you this because I enjoy this website and the comments are a big selling point for me.
Martin, I have to agree with commentator. I've had similar problems. As well as what commentator has experienced, I've also posted (successfully, I think) a comment, seen it go onto the board, and then disappear within a minute when I go to refresh the thread. Sometimes the comment reappears in a couple of minutes, and sometimes it doesn't (that was the case with my comment from last night).
Adult Curfew? Thats the most absurd thing Ive ever heard. Whats the rationale in that?
Actually, isnt an adult curfew Martial Law? II think theyve imposed that in Baghdad!
All I have to say is thank god I live in Fairfax County....
Martin,
Sorry this is morphing into a bitch thread about comments, but I've had many, many, many problems with the comments since I started frequenting DCist a couple of months ago. Also, the sidebar with the recent comments doesn't refresh when you reload a page.
Peace,
Hill Rat
guys---we know comments have been a problem, we're working on it, so hang in there. with that, can we please stay on topic?
Um, Fairfax guy? Not to go all Jonathan Swift on you but--did you realllly believe she was serious about the adult curfew??
A few months ago a group of teenagers went through my neighborhood vandalizing cars. They didn't even try to break in, just smashed windows and dented doors. The detective investigating told us that he knew it was local kids, but that nothing really could be done and beside, even if they were caught in the act, they would just get a short stay up at Oak Hill and then be back at it again.
I know the system sucks, and schools are bad, and poverty is a problem..but you know what, I don't care anymore. The reality is, I am better than most of the people in this city. I worked harder in high school, went to a good college, got a graduate degree, and work my ass of at a difficult job in a competitive field and you don't. You sit on your project steps all day waiting for your SSI or who knows way and raise animals. I do more important things in one day than you will ever dream of doing in your worthless life.
I worked hard and won the game and you lost. I get the spoils, and that inludes a nice condo and nice car and I will be dammed if your little delinquent kids are going to ruin that. Go move to PG County, or Prince Frederick, or the moon for all I care. I won and you lost, now take your kids, and your grandkids, and your Eastern motors special car with the nice rims, and leave me alone while I bring some civilization to this city.
e-
Ive read some really crazy mail at my internship with people who had far more insane ideas than an adult curfew...sometime its hard to tell ;-)
"I am better than most of the people in this city. I worked harder in high school, went to a good college, got a graduate degree, and work my ass of at a difficult job in a competitive field and you don't. You sit on your project steps all day waiting for your SSI or who knows way and raise animals. I do more important things in one day than you will ever dream of doing in your worthless life.
I worked hard and won the game and you lost. I get the spoils, and that inludes a nice condo and nice car and I will be dammed if your little delinquent kids are going to ruin that. Go move to PG County, or Prince Frederick, or the moon for all I care. I won and you lost, now take your kids, and your grandkids, and your Eastern motors special car with the nice rims, and leave me alone while I bring some civilization to this city."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a douchebag. holy crap that is such a hilarious rant.
Please move away. You can afford it from the sound of your egomaniacal rant. I bet you could buy a huge palace for yourself in Hades. It's a buyer's market.
When the mayor first announced the curfew change, i thought it was stupid. Why punish the kids? Then the DC police arrested a lot of those responsible for this summer's crime spike, and I noticed that most of them were kids. Maybe they ajusted the curfew because the police recommended it.
DCGuy511, how do you know that the police arrested the people responsible for the crime spike? Did these people say, as a aprt of their confession "I am part of a concentrated effort to spike crime rates this summer?" Just because a kid gets arrested by the police doesn't mean that they did anything wrong.
Although satire is fun (thanks e), I'll make this point directly.
Enufisenuf:
Your good college, graduate degree, and competitive job have, unfortunately, failed to produce any evidence of critical thinking skills.
If you are sick of crime in your neighborhood, support a crime prevention strategy that works. Period. Youth curfews are not one of them, as evidenced by the fact that your car window got smashed at 4 in the morning (I believe we're neighbors), a time amply covered by the old curfew.
Youth of color know that adults, particularly white adults, view them with fear and suspicion. But they may be surprised to find that people like you see them as "delinquent... worthless... animals..."
Thanks for your honesty. At least now we know what they're up against.
ann, thanks for having the presence of mind to give a thoughful rebuttal to enufisenuf. I could only laugh maniacally and wish in vain that I could vaporize people over the internet.
Ann, how would *you* describe the youth of DC who are arrested time and again for vandalism, car thefts, robbery, muggings and even murder? I don't have the stats, but it's my impression that a small group of extremely bad kids is causing a lot of destruction in this city.
It's unfortunate that the council decided to apply such a broad punishment to the problem, but until there's a more comprehensive reform of the prosecution of youth offenders, it seems like there are few other options.
Is it surprising that people who are the victims of crime consider their attackers to be worthless monsters? After being the victim of several random crimes myself, I have lost all empathy I may have had for folks who would attack me or my family. And while I may disagree with enufisenuf's "win-lose" dichotomy, I can't argue with his assessment of the value of these criminals, regardless of age.
I'll decide later if I'm joking or serious, but I think enufisenuf is a strawman creation from some anti-gentrification resident's head to stir up trouble. No one could really post something like that...
I hope you're right, CDTrave. Of course I'd also like to think that K, who supports violence against people who dare to complain about muggings or open-air drug markets, is a figment of someone's imagination.
It's only a month. The month of August. 4 Weeks. You do less and the parents ask why you didn't do more for their kids. Show me how this 4 WEEKS potentially hurts the youths' future more than it potentially helps them. All these arguements about how you really prevent crime like Fenty is making - can they be effective in 1 week? This is temporary. If it's not effective, oh well, the kids spent more time at home for ONE MONTH. I definitely notice an upturn in crime at the end of every summer here in Shaw, and this year crimes by minors is higher than usual. Whine all you want, but the parents of these kids all seem positive when I hear them interviewed in the paper. Go by the advice of the youths if you choose, but then you should roll the drinking age back to 13, kids should graduate from school at 13, etc.... because they will tell you they are adults.
I would also like to add that this change in the curfew actually encourages police to actually enforce the curfew. Anyone who's lived here for a few year should know that in the past, DC police didn't enforce the curfew, or a whole lot of other laws (which is still true). In the past, officers who enforced the curfew vigilantly were looked down upon by their peers and leaders. It's either in one of the following 2 Washington City Paper articles. I can't tell which because they are $3 a pop. I think it's the first article link, because if I recall correctly, juvenile curfew violations plummeted in 2003, not because juveniles improved, but because the MPD got a particular officer to stop writing up the crimes. So you definitely can't make the arguement that curfews don't work because DC was already enforcing one, and it didn't help. DC has never really enforced the curfew, much like double parking.
https://secure.washingtoncitypaper.com/cgi-bin/Archive/abridged2.bat?path=q:\DocRoot/2003/031024/CURFEW&search=youth%20curfew%20enforcement&SearchString=youth+curfew+enforcement&AuthorLastName=&IssueDate=mm%2Fdd%2Fyyyy&SelectYear=All&next.x=75&next.y=14
https://secure.washingtoncitypaper.com/cgi-bin/Archive/abridged2.bat?path=q:\DocRoot/2003/031024/CURFEW&search=youth%20curfew%20enforcement&SearchString=youth+curfew+enforcement&AuthorLastName=&IssueDate=mm%2Fdd%2Fyyyy&SelectYear=All&next.x=75&next.y=14
You called DC a "big city" and therefore your opinion is null and void.
K said:
DC is a big city, and big city shit happens sometimes.
I support the curfew. From the perspective of my neighborhood, Columbia Heights, it could certainly help if enforced by the MPD. I'm not saying it's the be-al, end-all to juvenile crime, but it could help as part of a multi-pronged approach along with youth programs, summer jobs, training, and other preventative measures.
"It's getting the point where I'd support wanton acts of violence to remind people where they're at. If you don't like it...commute."
"I'm absolutely fed up with people who move into Shaw, Columbia Heights, Georgia Ave. etc and expect the entire hood to treat them like royalty."
K-
This classist attitude is B.S. Your the type of person that gives neighborhoods like Shaw a bad name, but dont get the last laugh becuase guess what?? Professionals (Black, White, Asians, whoever) will keep moving there becuase its a convenient location. Will it raise Real Estate prices? yes it will, and theres no reason to try and fix it becuase its simple supply vs. demand.
The demand is there and limited supply, so the price is going to go up.
I don't understand this debate. The logic isn't consistent.
There’s hideous crime committed in the very affluent Georgetown by an adult and youth are blame. Yet when a 9 year was killed by a stray bullet two years ago on Georgia Ave there wasn’t an Emergency Response.
The deductive argument made to justify the Emergency Crime Bill does not relate to the actual. The truth is that the police department has for ages been trying to monitor youth and document them. They are simply taking advantage of the murder of the Georgetown man to push their own agenda. I only wonder if Georgetown residents feel they got any justice.
I want people to notice the inability of our elected leaders to make logical and sound conclusion. Evidently, this leads us to raise a social, philosophical and physiological question? Why do Americans elect incompetent leaders?
I'd like to point out, in addition to everything that Ann and others have said, that the curfew is unconstitutional. Regardless of whether or not it makes the city safer (and of course, it doesn't), there's no excuse for violating the rights of minors. The constitution exists to protect citizens from this sort of martial law. There are other ways to fight crime without sacrificing our rights.
I think the emergency crime bill and the curfew are commendable. DC is undergoing a process of revitalization. The hole "yuppie go home" pose though fashionable is totally misguided. The viability of any town or city is dependent upon a concerned, involved and "propertied" citizenry. People in "public housing" demonstrably don't have the intellectual, or material means to care for and build in a civic environment. The children of the lower middle and working classes of this city ARE a problem. Any discussion of more $ to schools and all that as the solution is idiotic. The Amish are not a crime problem. Most of the so called poor people of this city have more $ than the Amish. Truth be told deletion and a reduction of people w/in the American "ghetto matrix" is the only viable solution.
chris lee, what is this "ghetto matrix" you speak of? It sounds like a video game, or a rap song. Also, how do you "delete" people?
And don't you think there just might be some other variables you ought to consider in your moronic Amish analogy? Do you really think that's a useful comparison in any way?
Just trying to "understand" your "argument".
Additionally - that people in public housing "don't have the intellectual, or material means to care for and build in a civic environment" is by no means "demonstrable". Given the right tools, such communities can and have transformed their communities for the better.
Truth be told deletion and a reduction of people w/in the American "ghetto matrix" is the only viable solution.
WTF? Am I paranoid or is this idiot advocating genocide?
chris lee's comment has been pulled. there is no room at all for that kind of thinking here.
Could that have been another Rees alias?
i don't know, but either way, that guy can argue his "point" somewhere else.
Well, now that's more like it. Glad to see you put my post back up, that's what REAL freedom of speech is about you see, even if the Left Wing reactionaries don't like your point of view, we can still have a civil discussion. Now to reply,HILLRAT you are being paranoid. I'm not talking about killing anyone. I think free markets and competition could and should "delete" those people who either can't or won't contribute to a vision of a peaceful, pleasant civil environment. to SQDC- the "ghetto matrix" refers to my assertion that all of us are products of this or that "social matrix" and our social behaviour and worldviews are shaped by the social paradigm which both guides us and limits us. The "ghetto matrix" is productive of the "ghetto type" a person often cut off from and/or resentful of the "social norms" that you take for granted. The "amish analogy" was meant to suggest that character and values are not tied to how much money you do or don't have. King's dream of people being judged by the "content of their character" means they are not excused from judgement on the "content of their character" because of the color of their skin. What this has to do w/curfews of inner city children is that protection of kids from this type by keeping them inside is valid and protection of the more law abiding types by keeping some of this type inside is valid. now- rebuttal?
Chris Lee is obviously another Rees pseudonym.
I think free markets and competition could and should "delete" those people who either can't or won't contribute to a vision of a peaceful, pleasant civil environment.
When you say "delete", what (exactly) do you mean?
The curfew is a dirty band aid on a bullet wound; it's an empty symbolic gesture from the political leadership to simulate the illusion of action.
By "delete" I mean- many of these types will be priced out of the scene, or removed thru law enforcement. And no, I am not a "Rees" alias, whoever that is. I'm just talking straight, if you can't handle someone not towing the "PC" party line, too bad.
By "delete" I mean- many of these types will be priced out of the scene, or removed thru law enforcement.
That's already happening, it's called gentrification.
"That's already happening, it's called gentrification."
That's exactly what I'm referring to. And is that so bad? The "gentry" claiming an area? I think we need a redirection of the public discourse on race and class in this country, as it stands the PC position is to take a patronizing view of certain people because they for some reason or another cannot compete for valuable an valued land, I think this is wrong and leads to the absurd conclusion that some sort of "urban reservation" be set aside for certain people. Not only is it wrongheaded but in actual PRACTICE is always the ferment of crime and other unfortunate manifestations. As for the person who said "people in public housing need to be given the right 'tools'" I ask what "tools" are you talking about and who exactly is to dispense them?
In respone to #66
The problem with this line of thought is that you assume a person's ability to become part of the "gentry" is based on merit and hard work, not inherited race and class privilege. Do you have any idea how destructive redlining was to the ability of African-Americans to accumulate property and wealth? Keep in mind that this was a policy of the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT that was conceived and designed to DISCRIMINATE against Black people.
It's ridiculous to think that after 300 years of slavery and a 100 years of legislated, ubiquitous, and socially accepted discrimination, White people just want to say that "well everything is equal NOW" and act like none of that other shit ever happened and has no effect on our current situation.
I'm no Pollyanna, as a culture and as a group I think we Black people have some things that we need to examine and possibly change. I'm not quite ready to roll with Bill Cosby on this, but he's not totally out to lunch. I objected to the kind of scorn, disdain, and vitriol that dripped off of his remarks as much anything else; dude was downright hateful. I'm far from the only person that recognizes all of this , don't make it seem like Black people don't tend to their own knitting.
Alright we are up against the knot of the problem.
African American has TWO major quandaries in the United States:
1. Political Exploitation and domination and oppression, this is all but gone. For the first time you have a generation of black youth for whom Jim Crow is ancient history. Granted it's legacy is still an issue but so are other social ills from the past which impact everyone.
2. The second is the more subtle and insidious- it's a cultural or metaphysical or whatever problem..It's the paradox that to make it in an indutrialized liberal democracy you are going to have to assimilate the cultural practices of the qroup that dominated and exploited you. That's guite a sh*t sandwich to swallow but it's inevitable. Western Civilization did not come out of nowhere. The "priveleged gentry" that you speak of don't get by on their looks, it takes alot of money and hard work to be a doctor, lawyer or account executive. Most of these people are in this position because their immigrant parents busted their humps.
Granted it's legacy is still an issue but so are other social ills from the past which impact everyone.
Jim Crow is far from being ancient history. My Dad went to a segregated high school, that's not ancient history to him! The opportunities that have been afforded to immigrants came at the expense of Black people. Capitalism is a zero sum game, more for me means less for you.
My grandparents busted their asses working too, only my Grandfather wasn't allowed to join the brick mason's union here in DC even though he worked weekends doing work the union's "Master Masons" couldn't handle. You act as if Black people have made no effort to improve their standing in society, when the reality is nothing could be further from the truth. I could cite chapter and verse detailing how throughout the 20th century decisions have been made by our government to willfully fuck over people who were poor, Black, or (more likely) both. But there's no point because White people like you need to believe the ridiculous Calvinist lie that you are, where you are socio-economically because you're so good and you worked so hard. BULLSHIT! You continue to ignore the fact that social mobility is a myth. If you're born poor, in all liklihood you will die poor, if you're born rich, in all liklihood you will die rich. You are the beneficiary of inherited racial and class privilege and until you're willing to cop to that, there's nothing further for us to discuss.
Now that's where I disagree with you. First of all you want to catch yourself in your own prejudices and assumptions. I am African American. Now let me really play my hand and break it down for you. The only thing I'm arguing is "adversity" is universal to the human drama. Adversity is not particular to any oppressed or confronted group. I never said that there aren't or weren't instances of courage and triumph in Black History. On the contrary I am saying there are and were. My only argument is human being universally problematic, from the war or 1812, the South Vietnamese struggle, women's suffrage, the battle of Wounded Knee, what matters is not the particular problem, but the EMPOWERMENT of the individual within a given struggle. My heroes are Rosa Parks, Huey Newton, Malcolm X, etc- the question is what is the most empowering strategy for the 21st Century African American. I say it is a blunt and pragmatic framing of the problem leading to self-interested and intelligent action.
DCist is getting flooded with goony yuppie types, flyover state emigres, and other dreary would-be Washingtonians who think that the city's culture consists entirely of unattractive Hill staffers. The black community and all the kids who were born and raised here? They're pretty much just standing in the way of progress.
So. I'm wondering if there's any equivalent news portal that draws more legitimate Washingtonians, and stays under the radar of the invading savages.
Anyone?
Hope you find your escape from all the little minds that don't agree with you Nick.
So do I! What's the point of a narrowcast news site if any moron can read it and every one of them does?
Wow that's positive.
I am African American.
I had a feeling, but when you talk ridiculous nonsense like "deleting" people it's difficult for me to imagine anything other than a pasty GOP devotee.
I'm not saying that other groups don't have their crosses to bear; but Black people have been singled out for oppression and discrimination in a way that noone else has. You can't simply dismiss that bit of context when trying to figure out what Black people should do next.
As convenient as it would be for me personally to say that we, as Black people, should just cut the dead weight by focusing all of our empowerment efforts on people that we deem "worthy" by some arbitrary criteria; I find it morally repugnant and intellectually lazy.
As far as "blunt and pragmatic framing" of our problems go, we have to be careful about what we sign off on. Bill Cosby's bilious screed towards poor Blacks had a lot of hate-filled crackers tap dancing with joy.
Well hope that works for ya. I submit.
"I'm not saying that other groups don't have their crosses to bear; but Black people have been singled out for oppression and discrimination in a way that noone else has."
classic...
"I'm not saying that other groups don't have their crosses to bear; but Black people have been singled out for oppression and discrimination in a way that noone else has."
classic...
En garde my brother, bring it on . . .
What I am saying is that adversity is universal, the particular problem may be unique and call for a strategy particular to THAT problem. What has distinguished the advanced cultures is that they have met this or that medical, political, architectural, scientific, cultural, artistic or ethical problem with sufficient intelligence and will. Are we seeing in the black community ENOUGH intelligent applications to it's problems or are we seeing to much placeing blame on the other or making excuses. How many young kids in the black community can really be considered TRULY literate to the point of enjoying reading and the possibilities of learning and study (sadly this is an American problem in general), but in the African- American community it's glaringly absent. Without a desire and respect for the written word you have very little chance of stepping out of your own world view and discovering the ideas and thoughts of everyone from Confuscious, Emily Dickinson, Edison, W.E.B. Dubois, Thomas Paine, etc. Victimization is never the answer. Self assertion is essential in any struggle no matter how dire. No one can promise you a world in which there are no bullies, they can however teach you to fight back, to understand and manipulate political processes, to stand up for yourself no matter what the other guy does or doesn't do. This is the call to conscience today, not a litany of complaints but a philosophy of self-empowerment
and self control.
Victimization is never the answer.
You're mistaking my acknowledgment and recognition of the unique situation of Blacks for claiming "victim" status. I am not. What I am saying is that any solution or plan of action that we embark on must take the unique institutional and historical factors that have worked against Black people's interest into account.
How many of these illiterate kids are going to under performing, under equipped, and over crowded schools? It doesn't matter if child's parents read to him/her at home if those lessons can't be properly reinforced and built upon during the school day.
If you look at the number of Black owned businesses being started, Black rates of homeownership, etc. these numbers are all trending up over the last 10 years. Are there problems? Yes, but there is plenty of good stuff happening now too.
I never said "nothing was" working. I'm only trying to highlight the things that do and why.
Who are you quoting? You started all of this talking about, "as it stands the PC position is to take a patronizing view of certain people because they for some reason or another cannot compete for valuable an[sic] valued land, I think this is wrong . . ." do you still think that is correct given the fact that the Federal gov't legislated economic discrimination against African-Americans?
guys--we appreciate the discussion, but if it's just one on one, please take it to email and off the thread. thanks.
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