DCist: Norfolk & Western Not Loving Northwest D.C.

Lane

Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:26:30 -0500

I can't believe I just reread that entire thread.

Sunny Florida Avenue

Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:48:37 -0500

Wow, I can't believe I just read that entire thread.

gmail

Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:02:34 -0500

The trick with DC is to pick a cool suburb and let all the hipsters fight it out over their pseudo-neighborhoods in the city. Woooo Silver Spring!

tiberiu

Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:06:53 -0500

My opinion is that some people here need a drug detox and soon. I simply can't understand how some people can backup a thing that can kill, even in the long run... what ever...

fredterp

Tue, 04 Dec 2007 11:33:46 -0500

DC is a lot safer now than it was in the 60s. FREDTERP

jennifer

Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:24:19 -0500

Look - as a transplant whose been here almost six years and lived in lots of places - i have to say DC isn't that great - The classist NW section is like high school - Legends in their own mind - They completely ignore the majority of the city and even promote gentrification - while at the same time never letting anyone forget how liberal and open minded they are! Really? Please - the music and art communities are insular and pretentious - The conversation forced and ego-centered - Oh by the way you better pick up that name before you trip over it - and quite honestly You are not better than Virginians -If I have to hear this one more time...! Just residing in a beautiful, powerful city doesnt make you those things - Can't wait to leave!!!

Liebniz

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:39:40 -0500

I like to read these comments because they get my moxy up for doing math problems. You know what I use math for? Gentrification. I hope you whingebags get beaten up by some 15 year old kid who mistakes you for someone who likes math. You're part of my strategy: take the integral of f from a to whingebag . . .

Sock Puppet

Wed, 20 Dec 2006 16:39:03 -0500

Testing 1,2

Jeff

Tue, 19 Dec 2006 11:39:55 -0500

These masked thieves have struck again. This time it's another hipster stalwart... Wonderland. http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/citydesk/2006/12/neighborhoods-masked-thieves-raid.html

destro

Tue, 12 Dec 2006 22:25:59 -0500

People dissing them as crunchy liberals - they're from Portland, which actually has a sizable african american population, and similar scuzzy entertainment districts

NerdPummeler

Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:47:53 -0500

D&D talk?!?!!? NERDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MrPantsrock

Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:00:27 -0500

Maybe we are all forgetting that bandanas give you +5 dexterity against indie rockers.

Toughguy

Sun, 10 Dec 2006 23:11:16 -0500

If some menacing asshole were leaning on my car smoking a cigarette, I'd punch his fucking lights out. And the 930 club isn't particularly safer than DC9. They're both pretty unsafe at two in the morning. By the way, Norfolk & Western, thanks for joining the discussion, that's pretty cool of you. And anyone who hasn't checked out their website or myspace page, you really should. Here's a video from youtube... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8tbFP_1Ukk

paul is tall

Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:45:54 -0500

still sounds like the band made the first move on the people next to their truck OMG NOT CIGARETTES AND LEANING ON VEHICLES and i too wear masks over my face when its cold outside play the 930 club next time i see plenty of cops there whenever i go

Steve

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:05:22 -0500

Christ. Try living in Johannesburg. Then you'll have something to whinge about.

Ht

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 12:03:27 -0500

I live in Portland and take offence that "our behavior is typical"; ie, that we are racists by proxy. most of the people who live here are transplants from large urban areas. there is in fact a large population of African Americans in Portland, but perhaps you haven't seen them on your visits here as you were to busy shopping at Powell''s. I am going to wager that the majority of you have never gone on tour before. Touring in a van is hell; you are constantly exhausted and therefore your judgment and patience is ice thin. You roll into a town, usually late, and have little objectivity on neighborhoods as you are loading into an alley, playing a show, then leaving. Your city reps (to your disadvantage usually) grumpy sound guys and flooded toilets. I've been on tour and played that neighborhood. Though it seems it is becoming gentrified (!) it's still not the safest place it the world, and the only reason you are defending it is because white people are moving in. If these dudes were in fact gangsta, then what's the argument here? If they were black dudes with attitude working at a shit club, that is a different point of course. And what the fuck, isn't DC a rotating "death capitol" with other fine cities like Oakland and Gary, Indiana (where I grew up). A shit hole neighborhood is a shit hole, come off it. Last, fuck that sound guy. there should be a web site for shit sound guys who have gone deaf and don't give a fuck.

Bob

Fri, 08 Dec 2006 02:20:19 -0500

Gentrified I moved here in '95, I think it was June Not much around here And just like a curse, it became safe as a nurse No one said its worse Whole blocks were gentrified In no cars a dent you'd find 'Til one day a local carried rocks for the assault Well he knew who was at fault And then he was gone, screaming who was wrong All my new neighbors seem kind enough Always smiling hello And soon they'll be no one who remembers all the names Of all the locals of local fame On my street the streetlights are comforting On my street the new lights are comforting In '95 they would've been welcomed too... Note: This song by Norfolk & Western seems somehow appropriate to the discussion here.

pantsrock

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 16:31:02 -0500

Soundguy, rock club business models, and sound quality comments: DC9 may want to reconsider their policy of polling audience members to see which band gets their $9 cover charge. I always hated this as an audience member and as a musician. People often come to see a whole bill, and check out bands they haven't heard of, even in this day of the ubiquitous myspace page and glut of info on bands out there. Bands often stack the bill with other bands who they are pals with, so you are asking people to play favorites between two or more bands that they like. It seems to be a transparent process, but it is actually a pretty unfair way to distribute the door. I'm surprised DC9 does sound at all there--why not do it like the galaxy hut and have the bartender turn on a few vocal and instrument mics (for acoustic instruments such as string bass, banjo, accordion) and keyboard line signals through the PA and leave it at that. Cheaper, only takes a minute, and there is less crabbing from the bands about "Can I get more of me in the monitor." There are more than enough musicians working there at DC9 already. If there is a sounddude/tte, s/he should be paid by the club rather than by skimming off the door charge. The club has supervisory control over him or her, the bands do not. I feel that a lot of transparency is good in paying bands. Here's how it should work in small clubs, but doesn't: Come up with a payment policy, list discretionary factors in the payment calculation, and post the policy on the website and email it to the bands when you confirm the booking by email. List reasons why they may get stiffed--kind of like a---a---a contract, yes, Virginia, a contract. At the end of the night, the door person tells all bands how many people came, how much money there is, and how and any factors affecting WHY everyone got paid differently than the normal scheme. This takes more diplomacy than many bartenders or doordudes can muster though. Touring bands need to get paid $30-50 first (for gas money) before locals make a cent, unless the dudes on tour 1). musically suck ass or do something bad in the club/break shit/OD in the bathroom. If they are really good and chase away a large audience that the local openers brought, then OK, pay them well and book them on a more appropriate bill next time. But if the out of town band sucks and the band scares people away--give them $20 and tell them they didn't work out. Running a rock club means that you have to cultivate and attract certain groups--decent local bands and decent touring bands. The locals are trying to get better shows than before on better nights and to open for better bands. Eventually they may tour themselves and stop being so fussy. Local openers should understand that they are going to make less than the touring bands unless everyone is making decent money. Everybody involved should have the expectation that most of their money will come from merch sales-T shirts, CDs, band logo enema bags, whatever. DC9 can be a fun place to see bands, but the room is lacking acoustically. Booking bands is a pain in the ass, as is any business endeavor involving musicians. DC9 deserves some props for supporting the scene--booking bands can be a huge administrative burden with little payoff in terms of money or audience. DC9 takes some big chances and books some cool and weird non-mainstream shows. Props to that. But back to the bad acoustics at DC9--the sound is ass there, and no matter how much tweaking the soundguy does, it won't matter a lot. Quieter is better for the bands, but many of us rock types are loathe to not go to 11 when afforded the opportunity. Bands need to listen to the soundguy when he makes suggestions about moving amps, turning stuff down. He hears that it sounds like ass, and a professional-acting musician needs to realize that despite what their mom or girlfriend tells them, there is a need to exercise some editorial control over oneself and adjust playing accordingly (volume, intensity, style, etc.) to fit the room. That said, certain genres which feature feedback as an aesthetic element--noise rock for example--only exist in the upper decibel ranges. [I'm having a fond memory of the loudest show I ever saw in a small club--Steel Pole Bathtub in Boston at TT the bear's place, complete with drumset smashing freakout/breakdown, drummer and bassist walking out in the middle of the set, and an ensuing fight between their singer and the opening band.]

Todd

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:34:02 -0500

My penis hurts from reading all of these comments.

maeella

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:47:20 -0500

It seems that many people oommenting on this article(self occaisionally included) have a lot of "courage dot com." See definition: When someone tries to be a badass over the internet, like on a forum, or blog because they aren't acutally face to face with anyone. Ex.: DjDiddles: Smiley I'll kick your ass you little punk! Smiley: Yeah you know you got that "courage dot com!" You try talking like that to my FACE bitch! Source: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=courage+dot+com

bryce

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:42:46 -0500

Just got an email about this post this morning and I'm shocked! I love Dave Depper. He's a super solid guy and, for the record, he's not white. He's caramel colored. What I don't love so much are douchebags who get out their aggressions on blog chat boards. The discussion generated is valid, the name calling and bitchitude is frankly a little bit Jr. High.

Hill Rat

Thu, 07 Dec 2006 09:32:43 -0500

perhaps this is why people say that DC no longer has a close music community. nobody cares that much, which is fine...just don't get defensive when people call us out on it because it's true. You're right, there isn't a singular "close music community" in DC any more; but that's a good thing. IMHO the music community was close because it was small and more or less dominated by a couple of bands. There's a much greater diversity of bands, venues, and music styles currently on display in DC than there has been in the past.

cb

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:00:59 -0500

re: band pay - the polling really sucks for new and out of town bands. on major reason to tour is to be introduced to new audiences, which is why they're often booked with other locals. Even with heavy local promo, if you're from out of town you're not going to draw as many people, unless you've already got a buzz. the polling system, while fair on paper and in numbers, really isn't sympathetic to serious developing musicians that take huge financial and emotional risks to bring their art to other people. perhaps this is why people say that DC no longer has a close music community. nobody cares that much, which is fine...just don't get defensive when people call us out on it because it's true. that said, I have to say I do like DC9 as a venue and bryan has been nothing but super nice and accomodating to me...even when I bring tiny unknown no-draw acts to his club. I enjoy hanging out and seeing bands there, but as a touring musician myself, I just had to put in my two cents about the pay situation.

Gritty

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 21:13:27 -0500

Hey Prof. Emeritus Don with the triple PHD... can you stop writing your next dissertation for a sec? --------- You proved my point. You haven't thought about one thing you posted here for more than 5 second. Don --------------------- Im assuming you're making the valid point that an professor who was "emeritus" wouldnt be writing a dissertation. A point well made! Anyways Don, can't we agree that yes Geneva is not ANYTHING LIKE DC, but it is a city and a city with very little crime relative to DC or any (or most, at least, since I dont have stats on hand) other American city? Id be interested to see anyone argue that point. And since that statement is true, can't we assume that the statement that "crime is an inevitable part of city life" is not wholly true. There are towns with higher crime rates than major cities and vice versa. I was making the point (and this is the last time Im writing this for you Don) that CRIME IS NOT CAUSED BY AN URBAN ENVIRONMENT IT IS CAUSED BY SOCIOECONOMIC FACTORS that may be associated with urbanism, but are NOT IMPLICIT in any definition of a "city". I believe that when people begin to resign themselves to the belief that they must accept crime as a part of city life, they CAN (note the conditional, please) lose the ability to see the extent to which a city can be recreated or remade as places of diverse experiences, happiness and communal identity and begin to see their environment in terms of fear and divisiveness (sp?).

pantsypants

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 20:05:47 -0500

I gotta say: DC9's sound is not good in general. Nice guys there, good stage, but man -- I have yet to hear really good sound in that place. Touring East and West and in between, by comparison the sound at DC9 is on the jay-vee team. Hopefully it's on it's way up; sounds like Bryan's paying close attention to those matters. (I'll leave the racial/ gentrification/ homeownership/ urban crime/ ManU v. Hoops discussions for others.) Coincidentally, a strong contender for the best club sound I've ever played through was at Holocene in Portland. Go figure. Dave, if you're still peeking at these comments, please come on back to DC at some point, we'll welcome you. And admittedly, any show the night after playing Mercury Lounge is not going to shine as bright. Have fun at Doug Fir this wknd, that's one of PDX's highlights, no doubt.

m

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:07:19 -0500

go fuck yourself, jason. columbia heights, shaw, u st? you just named a bunch of safe neighborhoods. go back to chicago. dc doesn't dont want you here anyway.

brenna

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 18:50:17 -0500

Regarding all of the supposed racial innuendos coming from Dave of NF&W, and how he must have just been “scared of diversity”… I would like to point out that Dave himself is not of the Caucasian race.

brenna

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 18:42:38 -0500

I still think the LEAST the club could do is apologize for their shitty sound man and his shitty attitude. That reflects the club as a whole, and will surely make people certain people on this forum think twice about playing at the club, or even visiting it again. Especially after so many others that posted actually witnessed the NF&W show first-hand, not to mention all the people that have complained about previous incidents. But, if the club owners are not willing to own up (which it is not appearing they are thus far), then they should obviously get what they deserve.

.jeff.

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:54:02 -0500

to the band: if you guys did come back to DC i'd come out to your show. and i haven't even gone to listen to your sound clips yet... i also love how wonkette picked up on this. and that dave from the band showed up to join in. and that bryan from dc9 showed up. who are we missing? maybe we could get fenty to give his two cents?

Hillman

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:48:33 -0500

Anne: But I am glad you at least registered your vehicle in DC. That's a lot more than many in DC do.

Hillman

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:46:33 -0500

Anne: I'm not bitter. But I am annoyed at times. And, again, I carefully qualified my comments, restricting them to those that lived here for a long time and never chose to buy a place when they were able, preferring instead the ease of renting, then complaining about being priced out. Obviously if someone is going to be here only a year or two it'd be silly for them to buy. But, then, those aren't generally the ones complaining about being pushed out of the city after years of living here. And I never said renters are lesser beings than me. And I never said renters are automatically less involved in their neighborhoods than their owners. If you believe I said any of those things, please point me to the exact quote. And, yes, there are a lot of short-timers in DC. But there are also a lot of people that have lived here for years and years and years. And, yes, as a general rule, people that own their homes tend to take care of their property more and be more involved in the community. Is that always true? No. But it often is.

lmb

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 15:29:22 -0500

I hear you Jason, you make a good point. I guess I just wonder how much it would really hurt the club to be a little more generous with touring bands. A little bit of money goes a long way in instances like this where the band is likely traveling on a shoestring budget. My point is not to question the club's honesty (their policy is their policy; they didnt lie about it from what we know), but to ask if there's something wrong with a situation where the headliner makes de facto 10% of the door.

Jason

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 14:09:14 -0500

LMB, Bryan just stated that after $115 to keep the club running (soundman, doorguy), the bands keep 80% of the door take. If, like you said, 20 people came at $8, that would be $160. After $115 for expenses and the club's 20% take, that leaves $36. If it were an even split between the 3 bands, that would be $12 each. I'm not saying it's lucrative for the bands at all, but I fail to realize how the club is treating the band in any kind of a 'lame' way when it's operating in the exact terms that it set forth from the beginning. Now, whether or not the sound guy is worth a portion of the $115 that the bands are essentially paying him is up for debate. I think this is the real issue here. The bands are bringing the money in for the club. The money brought in is being used to pay the soundman (as a fixed cost). Is the soundman providing the value? Apparently not.

indiefolkforever

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 14:04:46 -0500

And after all the accordian-hazing, please check out their fine music... http://www.myspace.com/norfolkandwestern

indiefolkforever

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 13:06:01 -0500

Dave, please come back to DC. What with all this publicity, I expect a crowd...

Mark

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 12:57:37 -0500

AnneT: "DC is a very transient city." Not so much as you might imagine, certainly not in most neighborhoods. The Fed government functions of DC receive the press, but most people who live in DC don't work at those places. "Renting made me no less of an involved DC resident than owning a home makes you." I'm curious. You're a long-term DC renter. What have you contributed to DC society, other than the obligatory rent, shopping, and tax dollars? Have you gone to any PSA meetings? Civic Association meetings? Do you belong to a civic association? Have you volunteered any of your time at the local level? Have you done common-courtesy neighborhood things like sweeping leaves, trash, or snow from your or your neighbor's walk? As you point out, many renters know that they are short-timers, and they act that way. Perhaps you are the exception?

Batman

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 12:55:09 -0500

Sean, what kind of go-nowhere band are you in that makes you so goddamn bitter that you have to post ridiculous comments like that. Save it for the sandbox, infant.

Dave from Norfolk & Western

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 12:34:29 -0500

Sean, that was totally witty! Nice work LOL. =) See you in March!

AnneT.

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 12:03:10 -0500

Hillman, a lot of people living in DC rent because their jobs or their education plan are temporary. These include embassy workers and people who work in Congress. DC is a very transient city. Why should these workers buy houses or condos when they know they will be leaving the area in 2-6 years? Just because someone rents doesn't mean they are less likely to care about their neighborhood or take care of the home they reside in. And given the huge runup in house/condo prices in a 4-year period, it made good sense to rent and wait rather than rush into buying. I rented for 11 years and was able to save a huge amount of money rather than putting it into a "money pit". Not every rental property is a ripoff and not every tenant is careless of their rental home. When I rented, I had no desire to own anything, although I considered myself a "DC resident" from the day I moved here and transferred my car registration to prove it. Renting made me no less of an involved DC resident than owning a home makes you. Get over your attitude that renters are somehow lesser beings than you. Sorry you had to scrape so hard to buy your rundown house in an unsafe neighborhood. You're there now, and I'm sure you've made a profit, so why so bitter?

Sean

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 11:55:04 -0500

The best part about having Norfolk & Western in the DC Metro Area, is that Norfolk & Western left the DC area.

Mike

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 10:01:24 -0500

Bryan, Why don't you just tell the bands who play DC9 what your payout policy is prior to booking the show. That would solve the problem completely. That way regardless of whether the band draws 70 or 07, they'll know if they should make $20 or $100.

lmb

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 09:26:34 -0500

Im in a local band, and Ive played DC9 on a few occasions. We actually had a sound guy walk off the job in the middle of our set after a very loud ground hum started coming through the monitors. Bad sound is par for the course when yr playing clubs of that size, but from a band's perspective, its frustrating to have door money off the top going to someone who's working against you. If you're on the road and this happens, its a real bummer. On the whole issue of polling people as they pay--"Who are you here to see?"--this has always rubbed me the wrong way both from the perspective of a performer and an audience member. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I think it has something to do with the mood it sets. As a concert-goer, I dont like to think of a show as a competitive financial transaction where I'm playing favorites. I go to see shows to share in a community experience and listen to music. I may have gone to see band x, but I'm going to stick around for the others. Especially if I enjoy the night of music, I want my money to go to everyone. From a bands perspective, it can create some pretty awkward interband situations and makes payout about 50x more complicated than it needs to be. This instance also underscores to me why polling can be less than fair. Laura B played second, and apparently most people said they came to see her at the door. But everyone stuck around for N&W. They had a good time. They bought things at the bar. It just seems like common sense to me that they should get more than $12 when there was a relatively decent crowd. If you think about this fact, something is obviously wrong with the DC9 payout policy: If there were 20 people there, $160 was made at the door and the headliner walks away with $12. No excuses. Thats lame. As far as DC9 compares to other clubs around town, I know its subjective but to me places like BC, Warehouse and Galaxy Hut have more of a community spirit and are more band-friendly. Here's an example: When we first started, we played a show at the BC Backstage and only 6 or 7 of our friends showed up. That's a pretty shameful draw obviously. BC still paid us $30 and asked us back. I'll never forget that, and I recommend the venue to all my friends who play in bands as a result.

Don

Wed, 06 Dec 2006 07:55:09 -0500

Mark

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:50:10 -0500

Yeah, sure, agreed, techne. The stats are useful, but take them with a grain of salt. They don't tell anything like the whole story.

techne

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:16:26 -0500

Oh I quite agree Mark and Hillman. But as Reid said yesterday, some hard stats, however incomplete, are worth a page of "it's a bad 'hood/no it's not/my friend gets mugged in Georgetown every week/I live in SE and don't even lock my front door" anecdotes.

Bryan

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 21:24:29 -0500

Do be fair to my soundman I do need to hear his side of the story on what happened that night. This controversy was just pointed out to me today so I will indeed look into it. As far as paying the bands we have in my opinion one of the best payout policies in the city. I should know...the last time I played a show in the city (a club I will not name) we completly oversold the place on a Tuesday night and not only did me and my band mates have to pay for every drink but we also did not make a dime. This is one of the many reasons that inspired me to open up my own music venue!! And Mike...you may have had too much to drink the night you supposedly played DC9. If you are trying to say that you only got paid $20 for bringing out 70 people...it was probably more like 07!

Mike

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:46:11 -0500

Yes, DC9's sound guy sucks ass!! Rob from Velvet might be picky but at least he comes through with kick ass sound. This Bala guy at DC9 blows. It's his job to conform to the individual band's sound, not vice-versa. He regularly tells people to play quieter, drums to hit not as hard, turn your amps a certain way...etc Yet you still can't hear shit even when you do like he says. Ditch him please. Also, DC9 DOES suck as far as how they pay their bands. They give you NO info when the show is booked as to how the money will be divided. It's rather a suprise at the end of the night. I played there once with 2 friends' bands. We drew a total of about 70, all of whom drank a lot and payed a $6 cover. At the end of the night each band got $20. Now that is some bullshit!!!!

Mark

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:27:46 -0500

Second Hillman's point that much crime doesn't make its way into any database. It still blows my mind how many "shots fired" calls get taken that don't show up anywhere. La de da Maybe it's just firecrackers.

Hillman

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:13:58 -0500

Techne: And that's just the reported crimes and the ones DC police were able to actually successfully enter into a database. A great many 'minor' muggings and intimidations in DC go unreported, as it takes an unusually patient person to go through the often hours-long process of filing a police report, especially knowing that the actual chance of apprehension and real jail time and/or drug/alcohol treatment is very low.

techne

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:04:00 -0500

Here's some stats from the DC crime website someone linked to up there someplace. Thought people might be interested. This year to date, within a 500ft radius of (nightspot), DC9 23 violent, 83 property crimes: 106 total black cat 16/64:80 9:30club 11/49: 60 madams organ 23/58:81

Hillman

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:01:28 -0500

CMinus: Since home rule some 40 years ago we've had all black mayors, majority black city council's up until 1998, and the vast majority of city workers and agency heads have been black.

brenna

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:20:30 -0500

Bryan (one of the owners of DC9), On your instant defense of the $12 issue: have you ever heard of common courtesy or good deeds? Have you ever thought about tipping a band that has been on a cross country tour and had a shitty experience at your club? I'm sure even an extra $20 towards their gas would have been greatly appreciated. It happens all the time on tours... Also, you were so quick to defend yourself with the money issue that you failed to address the issue of your asshole soundman. Even after others that attended the show commented on how horrible he was. Being one of the owners, i think you at least owe the band an apology for THAT lack of professionalism.

Hillman

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:13:28 -0500

Veritas: Your points have some validity. But please note that I carefully qualified my original statement to specifically say that some didn't buy their housing because it was easier to rent. I didn't say that applied to all. And not to be blunt but it's unrealistic to think anyone earning $7.25 an hour is going to be in a position to buy housing. Historically that's almost never been the case, in DC or anywhere else. When I made $7.25 an hour I didn't think I could buy a house - I did what everyone else did..... I rented part of a crappy place with a bunch of other people. Clearly if you didn't make enough to buy anything, then there was little you could do about it other than perhaps borrow from relatives or rent to own. My beef is with those that made enough to buy a place but never did. Plumbers, electricians, office workers, etc. Or those that had educational and job opportunities and pissed them away. You can't now, but ten years ago I guarantee you you could buy a house in Anacostia and other east of the river areas (some of which are quite pleasant and not nearly as unsafe as we're often lead to believe) for $100,000, sometimes for $50,000 or less. And often for considerably less than you'd be paying in rent for the same place. Was it safe? Not so much. But neither was my first place in DC. As for people not moving, I just saw a report on TV a day or two ago about unemployed factory workers (I think they were auto workers) moving to Montana to find jobs there. It happens (even though, yes, that's clearly just anectdotal evidence). So to say it doesn't happen anymore isn't completely true. And it's even easier now, with Monster.com and all kinds of online job search and housing resources. But I've talked to quite a few lower income DC residents that will tell you they wouldn't move even if they were guaranteed employment and housing elsewhere. That's the attitude I think is self-defeating in the long run.

james

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:09:22 -0500

The one comment in this thread that really sticks out at me is, "That's what kids do." Really? I guess things have changed a lot since I was 14. The worst thing my friends and I ever did was shoot bottle-rockets at a teacher's house (and we were probably 17 then). Oh, and once in awhile we drank alcohol. I guess I should be thankful I grew up in a small town. The lack of respect that kids show around here disturbs me. I mean, I hate teenagers screaming on the bus and metro. I hate when a group of three said, "I'm going to steal your pizza" to me. I hate when a 10-year-old gets cheered for holding the doors open on a metro train for a minute so his friends can get on. I hate when 12-year-olds almost crash into me because they can't work the stick shift on the car they just stole. But what I hate even more is that attitude: "That's what kids do." As if it's normal for kids to steal cars, rob people, throw rocks at buses and people, destroy things, threaten people. Oh, and, throwing pennies at people on the metro, is one I hadn't heard. I wish they could have had a better life...and better parents.

Gritty

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:05:50 -0500

"Are you even TRYING to pretend that the history and culture of the United States is remotely comparable to SWITZERLAND? SWITZERLAND? Name one single aspect of our culture and history that is similar!" - Don aka the Stephen Hawking of urbanism ------------------ Hey Prof. Emeritus Don with the triple PHD... can you stop writing your next dissertation for a sec? I have a question for you: Why are you fucking dumb? I never said Geneva had the same history as DC or any other shit hole american city with 3rd world crime rates. I was saying that there is NO DIRECT CORRELATION between urbanism/the urban form/city living and crime. It is perfectly possible to have a city that is nearly crime free. Maybe I can have your email so that I can send you a few journal articles on the root causes of crime? I'll give you a quick synopsis - none of them say crime is caused by a fucking built structure lying in close proximity to another (ie high density urban development) DC is not plagued by crime bc it is a city. It has crime for an innumerable amount of other reasons, many of which Im sure are so complicated and long standing that no one could ever hope to fully understand them. I was merely making a point to the people who seemed resigned to the fact that living in a city means living with crime. It does not and I was saying that cities like Geneva and Stockholm are examples of this. (Dont write some stupid shit reply that they are the exception to the rule, etc. Im not a fucking idiot, I know they are. Im just saying that the link between urbanism and crime is NOT ABSOLUTE).

Hillman

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:58:22 -0500

Stone: I despise working class people? Please. Enough with the hyperbole and class warfare crap. Your statement is totally baseless. And it's crap to boot. Yes, a lot of people did move from DC. Most were middle and upper class.

Nat X

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:24:34 -0500

If I had realized this is all my band needed to do to get PR I would have started makin’ stuff up about clubs along time ago.

Johnny

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:46:21 -0500

Not sure why people are assuming 'other' cities are so 'provincial'. I know both cities, and they are VERY different. But they aren't so very different as some of the comments assume. Look at a few (selective) stats at he bottom about the population and the wealth of the residents. You guys put in the urban/suburban thing, and the race thing based on your prejudices. The van portion is purely a feeling safe thing. You want to rule on how people can feel? And if you think DC is safe for you, and crime is something that happens to other people, I'm laughing in your face right now. Portland OR Population (year 2000): 529,121 Median resident age: 35.2 years Median household income: $40,146 (year 2000) Median house value: $154,900 (year 2000) Washington DC Population (year 2000): 572,059 Median resident age: 34.6 years Median household income: $40,127 (year 2000) Median house value: $157,200 (year 2000)

anon

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:25:54 -0500

WOAH! Wonkette is on it! You can read their comments on our comments. This is SO meta. http://www.wonkette.com/politics/dcist/dc-prepare-for-lamest-race-war-ever-219478.php

Dave from Norfolk & Western

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:06:53 -0500

A note for Bryan (DC9) and everybody else regarding the 12 bucks... In my original post, I meant that making 12 bucks sucked. This was just a fact of the evening, not an issue that DC9 was responsible for. I IN NO WAY meant to imply that DC9 screws over ANYBODY. I sincerely regret if it came across that way (which it surely must have, following my bitching about the sound guy).

Veritas

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:02:38 -0500

Aye, once more with feeling. I think one's perspective on gentrification is tempered by one's perspective of the ownership society and its relationship to the health of a city. I would rather have more workforce housing than privately held housing. I wish the city could come to a place that could support both, but my hope dwindles with every new advertisement for luxury condos. If a mortgage is supposed to 3X your yearly salary and dc median is 50,000 (I think), then someone show me where the 150,000 condos/houses are. I would also say that people didn't purchase homes missed the opportunity out of laziness. Often apartment complexes require a similar amount of community upkeep to stay nice/ habitable. Rather, even before the housing boom this wasn't an inexpensive area and economic opportunities are limited. If one isn’t working in government (local or federal), IT on some sort of advocacy the other big employer is the service industry. Those jobs will barely get you rent, let alone cover a mortgage. Your dedication is admirable but should a city require its residents to work double standard hours to stay in the city. Also, if you're a parent who is taking care of your children? (Especially if you're a single parent.) People don't move for work anymore because industry has disappeared from America. This region is one of the few with a growing job market. The service industry has taken over as main blue collar employer and $7.25/ hr doesn't go that far anywhere. If the options are is poverty in a strange land and poverty at home, the choice seems simple. DC is also one o the most unequal cities in the country, meaning that holding your breath while waiting for the market to respond to the need for workforce housing may result in death. Hence the turn to government. That's my perspective, anyway.

John

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:02:31 -0500

Why do people think that since they live near DC9 and have never been mugged that anyone who feels unsafe is racist or judgemental? I am sure liberal guilt is alleviated by living in an area that has a couple black people but don't act like you are hard or special for renting in the U Street area.

cminus

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:01:38 -0500

as DC has had a majority black government for decades. FWIW, the City Council is majority white, and has been since 1998, so at a minimum your use of the word "has" is dubious.

cbc

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:59:21 -0500

It is very entertaining to many of the commenters trying to justify to themselves living in DC. Its an overpriced shell of a city full of pretentious people trying to pretend they are changing the world. No one is impressed that you pay way too much to live in your apartment in Columbia Heights.

Veritas

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:59:17 -0500

Aye, onece more with feeling ( and correct spelling) I think one's perspective on gentrification is tempered by one's perspective of the ownership society and its relationship to the health of a city. I would rather have more workforce housing than privately held housing. I wish the city could come to a place that could support both, but my hope dwindles with every new advertisement for luxury condos. If a mortgage is supposed to 3X your yearly salary and dc median is 50,000 (I think), then someone show me where the 150,000 condos/houses are. I would also say that people didn't purchase homes missed the opportunity out of laziness. Often apartment complexes require a similar amount of community upkeep to stay nice/ habitable. Rather, even before the housing boom this wasn't an inexpensive area and economic opportunities are limited. If one isn’t working in government (local or federal), IT on some sort of advocacy the other big employer is the service industry. Those jobs will barely get you rent, let alone cover a mortgage. Your dedication is admirable but should a city require its residents to work double standard hours to stay in the city. Also, if you're a parent who is taking care of your children? (Especially if you're a single parent.) People don't move for work anymore because industry has disappeared from America. This region is one of the few with a growing job market. The service industry has taken over as main blue collar employer and $7.25/ hr doesn't go that far anywhere. If the options are is poverty in a strange land and poverty at home, the choice seems simple. DC is also one o the most unequal cities in the country, meaning that holding your breath while waiting for the market to respond to the need for workforce housing may result in death. Hence the turn to government. That's my perspective, anyway. Than you for your thoughts and all hail the civil discourse.

Veritas

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:50:50 -0500

Hillman, I think one's perspective on gentrification is tempered by one's perspective of the ownership society and its relationship to the health of a city. I would rather have more workforce housing than privately held housing. I wish the city could come to a place that could support both, but my hope dwindles with every new advertisment for luxury condos. If a mortgage is supposed to 3X your yearly salary someone show and dc median is 50,000 ( I think(), then someone where the 150,000 condos/houses are. I would also say that people didn't purchase homes missed teh opportunity out of laziness. Often apartment complexes require a similar amount of community upkeep to stay nice/ habitable. Rather, even before the housing boom this wasn't an inexpensive area and economic opportunities are limited. If one working in government ( local or federal), IT on some sort of advocacy the other big employer is ther service industry. Those jobs will barely get you rent, let alone cover a mortgage. Your dedication is admirable but should a city require its residents to work double standard hours to stay in the city. Also, if you're a parent who is taking care of your children--especially if you're a single parent. People don't move for work anymore because industry has disappeared from America. This region is one of the few with a growing job market.The service industry has tken over as main blue collar employer and $7.25/ hr doesn't go that far anywhere. If the choices are poverty in a strange land and poverty at home , the choice seems simple. DC is also one o the most unequal cities in the country, menaing that holding your breath while waiting for the market to respond to the need for workforce housing may result in death. Hence the turn to government. That's my perspective, anyway. Than you for your thoughts and all hail the civil discourse.

Bryan

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:45:29 -0500

Hi...Bryan here one of the owners of DC9. Just to clear up our payout policy for the bands. We pay bands 80% of the door after $115 in expenses (sound and doorman) for every single show!! Out of that 80% the money is split up by a polled door but what usually happens is that the local bands for the night ususally gives at least part of their share(and on slow nights all of their share) to the touring bands which apparently did not happen that night. Everyone who plays the club knows exactly what the deal is for the night. Their are no surprises with our payout policy.

Jason

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:35:16 -0500

Thank you, GhettoBurbs, for an eloquent and lucid post.

RJ

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:30:39 -0500

sorrytosay, You get what you pay for. You should write DCist for a 100% refund.

Hillman

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:26:23 -0500

Ghettoburbs: There are several programs in DC designed specifically to make sure that rising property taxes do not displace the poor or elderly. In fact, there is a specific program just for those that have owned their property for a long time. Here's a link... http://otr.cfo.dc.gov/otr/cwp/view,a,1330,q,594338,otrNav,|33280|33288|,.asp The DC government goes out of their way to publicize these programs. Over the years I've gotten several mailings from DC on this very subject. I'm sure some people fall through the cracks in these programs, but in a city as liberal as DC I'm fairly positive that if this were a sizeable number of people we'd have new programs set up to address that. If not, we should.

Hill Rat

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:26:00 -0500

Dave from Norfolk and Western - I'll join the chorus in thanking you for coming back to clarify your comments. As you can see, we have a lot of braying jackasses in this city. Please, pay them no mind and come on back to DC; I don't know that your band is my cup of tea (I'm more of a punk/metal/hip-hop guy), but the Theremin alone will be enough to get me and my Theremin playing buddy out to a show. Peace, HR

Mark

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:20:47 -0500

modthinglet: Why would you really care what some guy from Portland thinks of DC? Would you expect them to care what you think of Portland? Get a little self-respect.

Stone

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:14:04 -0500

>Why didn't many buy? Because it's easier to be a tenant. Being a property owner is more work. I call bullshit on that one. I'm sorry people can't be as rich as you Hillman, but $200,000 is a lot of money for working class people that you despise. Shit, I have a decent government job and I STILL can't afford a $200,000 condo, so please cut the crap. >A lot of people in DC absolutely refuse to consider moving somewhere else. Huh? Actually hundreds of thousands of people in DC have moved somewhere else. DC's population USED to be over 800,00 people. The people who could did move, most likely to PG County because of rising crime, taxes, and rents. Get your facts straight. >Used to be that if your job sucked or housing was unaffordable you moved, often to another area hundreds of miles away. I'm sorry, but if you're on a fixed income its not easy to just jump in the van and head to California. PLEASE, stop making generalizations about people that you don't know or even care for.

sometimes i love statistics

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:59:13 -0500

i happen to have printed out the crime map the post put together a few months ago because i thought it was such a good presentation of the data. it might be a little late in the discussion, but, as an fyi, in 2005, DC had 6.4 robberies per 1,000 people compared to chicago (5.6), miami (5.2), LA (3.6) and NYC that had only 3.0. the worst part, i think, is that 29% involved guns, 31% beating or other violence and only 24% were nonviolent.

Dave from Norfolk and Western

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:51:46 -0500

modthinglet, Why should we not come back? Did you read my long explanation above? Somebody told me it was a bad neighborhood, I simply re-printed this fact, and have since expressed regret at having spoken so hastily about something I didn't know about. Surely you could extend the same courtesy in my direction?

GhettoBurbs

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:41:01 -0500

Hillman, great points. What the anti-gentrification crowd fails to realize is that it is undeniably a good thing when a residential property is converted from rented to owned. Residents of owned property are much less transient than rentals. As a neighborhood transitions from rented to owned, it stabilizes, which fosters growth in safety and security. Also, homeowners work much harder to maintain their properties, as it represents a large portion of their capital. A renter can trash his apartment and lose, at most, the security deposit. One unaddressed problem of escalating housing costs are real estate taxes. An older family with a paid-off mortgage can still be displaced due to escalating taxes. Does anyone have info on the severity of this problem?

modthinglet

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:34:12 -0500

I live on 9th street (couple blocks down from the club). Still alive. If you're a member of this band, please don't come back. And if you are, please let us know first, so we can tell everyone in the neighborhood not to attend.

Sweet

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:32:40 -0500

An idiot? Anyway, there's a lot of crossover between U Street and PGC. Lots of people who used to live in that neighborhood left to go to PGC, and a roughly consistent crew of people come back and hang out along 14th Street, etc. Actual social explanations aside, your illustration that at least one of the many crimes in that area was committed by a non-resident has wholly refuted my point that there are real people there and that oversimplification benefits none of us. Well played. It is an urban jungle--let's raze it.

Sweet is an idiot

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:15:54 -0500

Sweet- "To the person who claimed that DC is esp scary and unclear, realize that that neighborhood is longstanding. Everyone knows everyone, and to the extent you don't, it's because you're an outsider." didn't they just arrest a rapist from PG in that hood? Did he know everyone? Should all the women he raped be considered outsiders? Obviously you know what you are talking about. Thank you for the enlightenment.

Hillman

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:12:41 -0500

Veritas: Thanks for the informative post. I was a little hesitant to even post my original post, in part because this is such a sensitive subject. I can't speak for the city as a whole, but on the Hill the newbies are not 20 something condo dwellers looking to make a fast buck and leave. We're getting a lot of families and a lot of people that at least say they are planning on being longterm residents. Of course, they bring their own set of oddities - those monster strollers complete with recliner seating for six, a minifridge, surround sound and GPS are really pretty annoying to those of us who haven't impregnated anyone. I think a lot of people assume that a condo is a temporary step. That used to be true. But now a condo is the only thing most people can afford. As for longterm residents being pushed out, I'm of two minds on this. I hate to see people that work for a living pushed out. But at the same time a lot of people lived here for 30 years and never bought a house or condo. Ten years ago you could get something pretty nice for $200,000, and there have been tons of programs for first time low income homebuyers in DC for years. Why didn't many buy? Because it's easier to be a tenant. Being a property owner is more work. So for those I have little or no sympathy. When I moved to DC I made very little money. I scraped, borrowed and begged to buy a house I didn't like in a neighorhood filled with crime, because I knew that buying property was the only way to avoid displacement. I worked my butt off over ten years to better my situation. I worked 70 and 80 hour weeks at work for the overtime, then renovated my place in what little spare time I had left, for years. So I get a bit tired of those that never did the same getting all indignant over them finally losing their home after 30 years. Yes, renting is easier. But it has an inherent risk. That's why it's easier. This ain't rocket science. And I'm sick to death of those that don't work demanding free housing. And we have more than our share of that in DC. When I see some young punk bitching about how he's being displaced and turns out he's on the streetcorner with all his friends at noon on a weekday and he hasn't looked for a job for years I find it very hard to be sympathetic. But there is a real problem with workforce housing. We now have a very real problem with affordable, safe housing. But to me the problem isn't with the amount of housing. We have literally miles of affordable housing east of the river, in far NE, etc. The problem is that it isn't safe. If we were actually able to get a handle on crime, there'd be tons of affordable housing. Will it be free? No. Will it have granite countertops and a trendy address? No. But it will be more than adequate. There are a lot of very decent people living in unsafe neighborhoods. But it's not the rich white people that are making them unsafe. And it's not the evil white government, as DC has had a majority black government for decades. It's their own neighbors. And, yes, the considerable majority of the time those neighbors are black. One other consideration, which I think gets back to the 'ownership' idea. A lot of people in DC absolutely refuse to consider moving somewhere else. Used to be that if your job sucked or housing was unaffordable you moved, often to another area hundreds of miles away. My parents picked up and moved cross-country several times, in search of better jobs and a better life. Now we seem to have a mentality that somehow the government must guarantee us cheap housing in a particular area regardless of how the area changes or how circumstances change. I think that idea is much stronger in DC than it is in other areas.

Don

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:59:26 -0500

The "most dangerous" street in Geneva is laughable. It has like 3 hookers and thats it. Crime in the city is not inevitable. Yes those cities are full of very wealthy and educated people, but they are still cities. ----------- Are you even TRYING to pretend that the history and culture of the United States is remotely comparable to SWITZERLAND? SWITZERLAND? Name one single aspect of our culture and history that is similar! If there's ONE THING that drives me nuts it's people who compare vastly different cultures with US cities as if they don't know there's a difference- Gee, if Singapore can clean up the streets with threats of police beatings and zero free speech, why can't it work here? Why can't we be happy in 600 sq ft high rise apartments like in Tokyo? how come people in Beijing are happy riding bikes and we need cars (dirty little secret, Chinese people want cars). Why is it prostitution and hashish is legal in Amsterdam, but not in Memphis, TN? Or even, when I lived on a ranch in Oklahoma we carried shotguns in our car because of the coyotes, why can't I leave a shotgun in my car overnight in DC? When talking about cities that work ya gotta keep it IN the US and IN the same general geography. DC can probably compared to NY or Atlanta, Philadelphia, Richmond, Newark and Hatford, but definitely not Miami or Dallas or Chicago and don't even joke about Los Angeles or Seattle, which we are virtually unrelated to. Don

Sweet

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:56:40 -0500

The writer of The Wire. Sorry about that. http://www.slate.com/id/2154694/

nicole

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:55:42 -0500

Yeah, when I used to let bandmates talk me into playing DC, I had a couple similar experiences. Now I refuse to play in DC unless it's a must-do. I don't think it's uncool to admit that I really don't like being intimidated, no matter who is doing the intimidation, and I don't need some kid who just embraced the "we're all one" college mystique to lecture me on that.

Sweet

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:52:10 -0500

Gritty--with respect to the neighborhood structure thing, as I said before that area is not a desolate wasteland, as some casual observers here have attempted to characterize it. Many residents of the area have been there for decades, even generations, and those longtime residents (almost all African-American, some poor, some middle class) all know everyone and exist as a community. They're neither simply static objects of liberal pity nor thieving criminals. This is all true of almost any neighborhood with a history and, more generally, all people. It bothers me deeply that some people look and see a lawless jungle that's getting in the way of their seedy-but-not-that-seedy nightlife. My thoughts loosely link up to the excellent interview with the director of The Wire that's up on Slate. Ultimately, there are lives implicated here, on all sides, and if you start the conversation by reducing everyone to archetypes (indie band, gangsters), we've all already lost. I guess I didn't see that at first, but reading over the comments, it strikes me that those who are crying oversimplification are most correct.

Hill Rat

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:42:23 -0500

I've never seen a Theremin put to such good use. Really? Check out local DC punk band The Points, they use a Theremin on a few of their songs. They play the Velvet Lounge pretty regularly. Rock & Roll No Rules, Hill Rat

r*obox

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:54:13 -0500

"nyone scheduling a gig the Monday after Thanksgiving must have had some idea it wouldn't be very well attended" The My Morning Jacket show at the 9:30 Club was sold out that night (and was awesome).

seether..

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:48:46 -0500

Here's the review of N & W that came out in Pitchfork on December 1st. http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/record_review/39758/Norfolk_and_Western_The_Unsung_Colony

Alex

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:23:21 -0500

About a month ago, the Post published a map showing all the muggings and assaults citywide from the past few years. The accompanying article pretty plainly stated that indeed, the U St./Columbia Heights areas have the highest concentration of these events in all of DC. It's certainly debatable whether this means they're actually the most "dangerous" neighborhoods, and the article didn't get into per capita crime rates accounting for pedestrian density, but what's at least clear is that these areas are by no means "safe," unless the objects of comparison are Johannesburg and Mexico City. If you claim to feel "completely safe" walking around these parts late at night alone, you're either lying, or you're naive and probably need to recalibrate your radar. I'm talking to the person who said they feel more unsafe walking alone in Glover Park (an area that had virtually no incidents shown on the map) at night than along U St. or in Columbia Heights.

Jeff

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:20:22 -0500

Let me be amongst those who saw the show and can attest to the terrific display that Norfolk & Western put on at DC9. Hopefully the next time they are in town we can show them an enthusiastic response. I've never seen a Theremin put to such good use. Anyone who hasn't yet, really should check them out: www.myspace.com/norfolkandwestern

Mark

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:19:25 -0500

To clarify a few points: School and social segregation still exist. Segregation increased from the 60's to the 90's beyond its historic level. I would also argue that much of the drama we're now discussing results from friction over the reversal of that relatively recent trend. I think we're on the same page about market and advertising forces. You know, of course, that downtown/midtown/uptown designations historically are (to some degree) fluid.

Mike B.

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:13:50 -0500

Fort Reno is an all volunteer effort, funded by private donations, connected with the Northwest Youth Alliance. They have a permit from the National Parks Service to use the stage, though the ran into some problems last year with the last show (Shellac, moved to the black Cat. Great show) due to too many attendees breaking park rules.

sorrytosay

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:01:07 -0500

I certainly don't deny that crime happens in Shaw — but having lived here for the last two years and being lucky enough to have become involved in its active community, I felt the need to stand up for my neighborhood. Like I said in the original post, please forgive me if I became a bit defensive. Sorry, but being "defensive" and being completely unprofessional are two different things. To slam a band without looking at, and presenting, the validity of their arguments is unprofessional. To make that post without first asking for any additional comments from the band, is unprofessional. To completely dismiss their concerns, is unprofessional. This was the most bullshit sensationalistic article I have ever read from DCist. Boot the editor, get a new one, this one is unprofessional and has no journalistic integrity.

Mark

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:00:35 -0500

Veritas: School and social segregation, of course, existed. But neighborhood segregation was less defined. If you go to the National Capital Parks and Planning archives and look at the records, you can see how neighborhoods were actually more integrated than you seem to imagine they were.

adrienne

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 11:24:40 -0500

Gritty - Fort Reno is the site of an outdoor concert series that's been happening for over 20 years. Every Monday and Thursday during the summer months, DC bands play on the big field on Reno Rd. (behind Whole Foods) for free. I think it's a city program to promote DC arts. I've seen Fugazi, Ted Leo, Dismemberment Plan, Q And Not U, and many more there. Check the link.

Jim

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 11:12:41 -0500

He knows kung-fu and he beat Man U...Walking in a Nakamura Wonderland. 16 points clear and it's not New Year...doo dah...doo dah!

Veritas

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 10:59:52 -0500

Mark, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Segregation existed in Washington both culturally and legally. Black children were denied entrance to white schools. Adams-Morgan is named in celebration of the area's black school and white school integrating. Here’s a fairly balanced view:http://www.culturaltourismdc.org/information3949/information_show.htm?doc_id=208984 This article has some good points but take it cum grano salis: http://prorev.com/dcblackhist.htm Neither denies segregation. There may have been exceptions in some neighborhoods but most cities in America were, at the very least, culturally segregated. To this point: "That seems to me more the new face of the market segment whose disposable income entertainment business (restaurants, bars, etc) compete for. So it gets a lot of press." There are real estate agents and development groups working really hard to make DC "New York South"--I actually heard someone is trying to call downtown "midtown", both laughable and sad. New magazines like “Capitol File" and "DC Style" are seem to be produced entirely in Ballston are about as representative of DC as Friends was of New York. Still, this is feeding into the perception of the city being changed chocolate to any old urban local. I was addressing the perception of an ever-whiter DC, not claiming that was the reality. There are more young blacks moving to the area or staying after college, too.; and an increasing Latino population. However, educated black people in DC aren’t new (see article 2) and growing Latino populations are a national trend. The "our city" mentality must still be pretty strong or the economics would get more press. You get that discussion in stories about PG county. This perfect storm of identity politics and economics is what makes for a good story. And while it's true that the economics affect us all, it seems worse to be forced out by property taxes than locked out by high rents. This affects everyone in the city, regardless of race, but the fact remains that DC is a majority black city so the face of displacement is often black.

The Gooey Wankrag

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 10:59:32 -0500

I'm Irish; I listen to NPR; and I eat wheetabix for breakfast. Of course I don't have a sense of humor. Cromwell stole it from us. And the potatoes, my God, the potatoes! At least that's what the nuns told me whilst they beat me. Let's all relive that magical moment now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2R0Vd6C6Qk

The Gooey Wankrag

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 10:56:23 -0500

Veritas

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 10:54:14 -0500

Mark, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Segregation existed in Washington both cutlurally and legally. Black children were denied entrance to white schools. Adams-Morgan is named in celebration of the area's black school and white school integrating. Here'sa fairly balanced view:http://www.culturaltourismdc.org/information3949/information_show.htm?doc_id=208984 This article has some good points but take it cum grano salis: http://prorev.com/dcblackhist.htm Neither deny segregation. There may have been exceptions in some neighborhoods but most cities in America were, at the very least, culturally segregated. To this point: "That seems to me more the new face of the market segment whose disposable income entertainment business (restaurnats, bars, etc) compete for. So it gets a lot of press." There are real estate agents and development groups working really hard to make DC "New York South"--I actuially heard someone is trying to call downtown "midtown", both laughable and sad. New magazines like "Capitol File" and "DC Style" are apparently produced entirely in NW are are about as represetative of Dc as "Friends" was of New York. Still this is feeding into theperception of the city being changed to any old urban local. I was addressing the perception of a whiter dc, not the reality. There are more young blacks moving to the area or staying after college, too. However, educated black people in DC isn't new (see article 2). The "our city" mentality must still be pretty strong or the economics would get more press. You get that discussion in stories about PG county. This perfect storm of idenity politcs and economics is what makes for a good story. And while it's true that the economics affect us all,it seems worse to be forced out by property taxes than locked out by high rents. This affects everyone in the city, regardless of race, but the fact remains that DC is a majority black city so the face of displacement is often black.

The Gooey Wankrag

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 10:50:11 -0500

I'm Irish and I listen to NPR- Of course I don't have a sense of humor. Cromwell stole it. Along with the potatoes. At least that's what the nuns told me whilst they beat me.

K

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 10:10:07 -0500

In defense of the band (Gasp) there's really nothing worse than playing a crap show to a tiny audience, problems with the sound guy, getting paid zero money and then, in the wake of all the recent band robberies, having to worry that maybe you might not make it to the next gig with all your gear. Coming from the Pacific Northwest, these folk have a radically different idea of what a city is. But common sense dictates that one should take caution in ANY big city. If there are cats posted up on your van, don't antagonize them. Do your business as necessary and make moves. I think that the radical changes that have occured in former danger zones like the Lower East Side or any hood-cum-hip part of any major city have tainted people's expectations of city life.

Graham

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 10:03:44 -0500

One last point kinda deserves to be made, and that's that Norfolk and Western are talking about their livelihood here. Everything they have in that van they worked pretty hard to get. Something happens, and they're stuck on the complete other side of the country, they've got to cancel their dates, etc etc. It's not surprising that they'd be nervous, suspicious, and even scared. I may doubt they were actually gang members accosting them, and it COULD have been your garden variety hecklers/drunks that leer at you in Eastern Market, U Street, and DuPont alike...but the band has a right to be overly concerned about their expensive equipment.

Jason

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 10:01:37 -0500

Isengard?

Jim

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 09:55:39 -0500

The Goo - Sorry I offended you with my comments. You did mention that you are an Irish citizen who used to work at the Holocaust museum, however you forgot to mention that your were devoid of a sense of humor. I suppose you missed the goal vs Man U a couple of weeks ago. And the songs inspired by Nakamura that followed. Sorry if real life, real people and real passion don't fit into your perfectly PC world. It is "Hail", by the way. As in, "Hail, Hail the Celts are here, all for goals and glory, fxck the Queen and Tories." However, that too will likely offend you as I am guessing you are both a Queen, and a Tory. Why didn't you just pick Jizz or Spunk as your usename? Wankrag would do as well. But don't worry, it was just a joke about getting a team together as a "final solution" to the Belle and Sebastian "problem". You'd hardly need a squad to sort out that crowd of hipsters. Pay a couple of lads from the scheme to throw half-bricks at them till they bugger off back to the Byres Road where they came from. You'll Never Walk Alone.

Mark

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 09:50:09 -0500

Veritas: Historic neighborhood segregation in DC is a little more complex than that. Taking 1950s Dupont as one example, there were both integrated streets and segregated streets within a single neighborhood. The "this is our city" mentality is the historic anomoly. It's more correct to note that some areas were predominantly inhabited by people of a single ethnic background, and some areas were mixed. Much of the segregation, then like today, seems to have been by wealth. I'm not sure that the "new face of DC" is really a white 20 something in a condo. That seems to me more the new face of the market segment whose disposable income entertainment business (restaurnats, bars, etc) compete for. So it gets a lot of press. By the way, it should be obvious that rising costs affect everyone. Yes, yes, wealth and race are correlated, but wealth, not race, is the key to involuntary displacement.

The Goo

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 09:30:03 -0500

Whoa there, monkeyerotica, hen I lived in Dakar, it was a lot nicer than DC, judging by these commenters' opinions. There is NOWHERE in DC where you can find a street vendor to buy a freshly slaughtered goat that you saw sipping gasoline yesterday. DC doesn't have hoardes of little beggar kids lining the street so you can pay them to finish your work that's due tomorrow wehile you go out drinking. And don't even get me started on what a literal pain in the ass this "toilet paper" is. God, I miss having a nice little hole to take a shit in. This town totally blows.

Veritas

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 09:02:51 -0500

Dave from N&W thanks for your clarification. You're right I did make some assumptions about race based on the neighborhood and not in your post. You inadvertantlely stepped on a landmine here but atleast you've opened up an interesting discussion. Hillman, This is not a defense of black racism but I think a lot of the territoriality is bigger than DC. For many years the city was one of the few places black people could safely develop communities below the Mason Dixon, in the 1960s it was the cradle of the civil rights movement and the first (I think)major city with a majority black population. That was a big part of the city's identity--especially for those off the hill. The true beleivers stayed through the riots, drugs and decline and now that things are on the upswing they are beign driven out--not leaving on their own volition. Further, it's just that white people are moving in, there have been white families in DC for decades and not just in northwest. It's that the new face of white DC is a 20 year-old looking to buy a condo,sell within five years and leave the city altogether. We've all lamented housing costs and the people who can afford to buy are often the people least likely to want to get involved with their community. Hence the resentment of of SOME by new white faces. (If it were all, clarendon would be overflowing by now) Again, not a defense, just my analysis. The suburban parallel is "white flight", neither is terribly pleasant. Lastly while it's really difficult to comapre DC to other cities the most inappropriate comparisons are to New York and Chicago. They are northern industrial cities with built by European immigrants. DC is historically a Southern city with little to no industry with it's lower-middle class made up of Southern whites and blacks that was strongly segregated for many years. A better comparison would be with Atlanta.( Little industy; pronounced black/white divide) Consider this when wondering why there are so few great Italian restaurants or why there's so little Chinese about chinatown.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinatown,_Washington,_D.C. History is more than past, it's context.

monkeyrotica

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 08:39:55 -0500

The five stages of living in the DC area: Stage 1: Living downtown is the greatest! It's so wonderful living in such a vibrant, diverse community. I love being able to walk to hipster bars, overpriced tapas restaurants, and leather furniture stores where the cheapest couch costs 6-months rent. Stage 2: DC is a squalid cesspool, a third-rate wannabe capitol like Dakar or Isengard, full of hipster losers and youth violence gangs of rogue Uruk-hai. Stage 3: Thank god I live in the suburbs! It's so clean, the schools are great, and I don't have to worry about being raped on the way back from Bed Bath and Beyond or having pennies thrown at my head. Stage 4: Borf was right! The suburbs are a boring, sprawling wasteland of stripmalls, $tarbucKKK$s, and cookie-cutter McMan$$ion$. I read it in the Cliffs Notes to Foucault's Madness and Civilization. $ma$h the $tate! Stage 5: Go to Stage 1.

anon

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 08:18:20 -0500

Re the $12. True, it is the bands responsibility to draw. However, $12 on show with 20+ people at a venue like DC9 is a horrrible cut of the door. I think the show was around $8, right? Let's assume only 20 people were there. thats $160. $12 is less than 10% of the door! We're not talking tons of money here, but it just seems like a slap in the face to the band. I understand that clubs need to make money, but paying a band that little is out of the ordinary.

Hillman

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 07:48:56 -0500

Sweet: You may accurately describe the situation when you say the area around DC9 is the way it is because of disagreements over who 'controls' the neighborhood. But no one 'controls' a neighborhood to the point of violently harassing those they don't like, often on the basis of skin color. Not in a civilized society. Back when neighborhoods were 'controlled' by white people that was rightfully considered morally unacceptable. It's no more morally acceptable to say blacks should control a DC neighborhood (not that that's what you are saying, but I hear that comment quite frequently.... that blacks should control certain areas of DC and that white residents and businesses are unwelcome). And for those that don't think this is a black/white issue they are fooling themselves. In my relatively short life I've seen racism from all sides. But I've never seen it more open and without shame or repurcussion than when I see blacks badmouthing whites in DC. And no one seems to call that what it is - racism. In the history of DC (and the US) white on black racism and hatred has certainly been far greater, in terms of actual damage inflicted. But that doesn't excuse what so many are afraid to admit - that blacks can be just as hateful as whites. What's odd is that we are afraid to say so. Maybe the biggest waste in all of this is that the civil rights leaders of 40 years ago fought and sometimes died for basic decency for black Americans. Somehow I doubt they suffered and died so that there could be turf wars over who 'owns' the streets around DC9 and so that street hoods could feel it's acceptable to racially taunt anyone that's not black on the streets of DC.

Hillman

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 07:20:56 -0500

DC928: I'm afraid I'm not cool enough to know what a turbo is. But regardless, last time I checked it was unacceptable in decent society to verbally harass people and threaten them as they walked down the street. If you find that acceptable behavior, good for you. But I don't.

Gritty

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 07:11:39 -0500

Whats in Fort Reno?

adrienne

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 01:07:56 -0500

Gritty - Open a venue in Tenleytown? My guess is that A) the rents are way too high to make it worthwhile, B) the neighbors are way too uptight to ever let it happen, C) there are not many spaces there that would make sense for a club (the old Babe's is being turned into condos as we speak). Tenleytown has Fort Reno. Be thankful.

Dave from Norfolk & Western

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 00:58:13 -0500

I must say that while I wish this whole thing would have never happened, it has lead to a very fascinating discussion on here. Everybody's viewpoints (even the ones that say I am a tool) are completely fascinating and enlightening. It just goes to show that if you don't know what you're talking about (me talking about D.C. in this case) then you should keep your opinions to yourself. Thanks to everybody that attempted to defend me, and thanks to everybody that reminded me that I don't have any idea what I'm talking about. It's too bad that I can't meet some people for a beer to keep discussing this. I definitely look forward to coming back to D.C. and I'm certainly going to keep reading DCist.

Cecilia

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 00:21:10 -0500

I would like to say that I think it's interesting that everyone assumed that the people that surrounded the band’s van were African-America when no where in the diary entry does Dave mention the ethnicity of the men involved. Leave it to ultra-liberal crusaders to spend more time jumping on their tired pedestals to bemoan the ills of the world while ignoring their own blatant prejudices. As far as the area is concerned, this is a sketchy part of town…look no further than the proof (crimeindc.org) to learn that there are a whole litany of crimes that happen in the DC9 neighborhood, and it indeed does not take a white kid from the NW to divine this fact. I recently moved here five months ago, and I have been warned REPEATEDLY by DC natives to stay away from that area of DC. DC is still the 13th most dangerous city in the US. Living in ignorance and self-righteousness will not solve this problem. Finally, I was at the show and the sound guy was ridiculous. Norfolk and Western put on a great show, despite the odds, and the DC music scene will sorely be lacking if they don’t play here again.

Cecilia

Tue, 05 Dec 2006 00:20:04 -0500

Jim

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:58:12 -0500

Urban Hipster PC-Poseur Award Nominees: Most of these "gang members" are harmless and just looking to freak out the DC9 people. -- Stone And if they think Shaw is "a particularly bad area," they must strap on the Extra-Absorbent Depends when they play Atlanta or Detroit. -- Monkeyrotica I go to DC9 all the time and have never been bothered, yet today in Tenleytown I was accosted by a homeless guy.  Generalizations are awesome. -- Red Line Good thing these guys didn't play H Street's Red and the Black. That would've really shocked their Portland-esque worldview. -- Bawler I, a 23 year old female, walked along down Fuller Saturday night with no qualms at all. -- Maeela If our local venues keep booking these goddamn accordion bands, I might start stabbing some of these suburbanites mydamnself. -- h4pr Racial strife pervades the neighborhood. I'm a bit more concerned about how that affects residents than some whitebread tools from the provinces. -- Sweet Imagine that these kids were the youth harmlessly hanging out, curious about someone with an accordian, then having a group of strangers call them theives. It's beyond insulting and hurtful. -- Veritas I am very sorry if I offended anybody… I regret the statement…it is a completely foolish blanket statement and I apologize for it fully… I ASSUMED… I didn't say they were black, or Puerto Rican, or Asian, etc...I'm not a D.C.-hating lily-white granola-munching primadonna. -- Dave Depper

DCist Jason

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:42:52 -0500

Sorry, factchecker. The Norfolk and Western show in question was at DC9, November 20, 2006.

Gritty

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:11:54 -0500

Sweet, I quite interested in your last point care to elaborate?

Sweet

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:07:05 -0500

100 comments! That's got to be a record. Dave from Portland, I did shit-talk you a while back, but it's solid that you came here to comment. Def realize that you inadvertantly stepped into one of the most controversial debates in this city--who controls that neighborhood, and where is the city going, and what face do we present. It has very little to do with you, and a lot to do with five square block area that is the flashpoint for a lot of unresolved issues in this city. I don't hold it against you--it's something that we all need to work out. The only criticism I have for you directly is that there is almost no chance that anyone you encounterd is in an organized gang. I won't claim that that hood is safe, but it's not gang territory. To the person who claimed that DC is esp scary and unclear, realize that that neighborhood is longstanding. Everyone knows everyone, and to the extent you don't, it's because you're an outsider. There are many dangerous pathologies, but they exist in a structure. You may never understand it, but there are lines and rules. I make no apologies, but it's more complex than some rule of the jungle explanation. You may never care to understand (I sometimes lose the will to care), but it's still there.

fact checker

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:00:22 -0500

the show was at rock n roll hotel... nice one DCist.

Sweet

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:58:21 -0500

100 comments! Is that a record?

Gritty

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:26:46 -0500

First of all, can we stop the "you're from the suburbs" bullshit? I think I used to fall into the category of those people above who have discounted the fears and/or experiences had by victims of crime. I visited friends I had made in college in inner city areas and never felt scared intimidated whatever and that helped confirm my belief that fear of crime in the inner city is overstated or at least overdramatized. Then I moved to a city myself (before coming to DC) and proceeded to have kids try to mug me on several occasions (I was too fast fuckers!!!), sketchy guys follow me around etc. That totally sucked and changed my perception of urban space. One time kids tried to mug me on a busy street on a sunday afternoon. As a lot of people know, shit happens totally randomly. This brings me to three points I would like to bring up. #1 - to all of the people who have never been victims of harassment/crime please dont talk shit about an issue you have never experienced first hand. Not knowing if some hormone charged teen is going to stab you after they take your wallet will change your perspective on shit for quite a long time. YOU ARE LUCKY and be happy that you are. It also sucks that I cant listen to Doug E Fresh anymore without thinking about mugging bc thats what was playing when some teens tried to steal my ipod. I miss you Doug E :( #2 - DC is unsafe no matter how you cut it. Has anyone ever been to Stockholm or Geneva? The "most dangerous" street in Geneva is laughable. It has like 3 hookers and thats it. Crime in the city is not inevitable. Yes those cities are full of very wealthy and educated people, but they are still cities. Something needs to be done about social exclusion, lack of opportunity, etc for the element in DC that are committing crime bc I guarantee that nearly all of them would be doing something much better with their lives if they had the chance. # 3 - When will someone open a venue in Tenleytown??? Is there a reason for this bc it doesnt seem to make any sense...

phew

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 19:36:34 -0500

Dave from Norfolk & Western- Sorry for the beating you got there. You got caught in the middle of a serious issue. Washington is in the middle of some warp-speed gentrification, and the area surrounding DC9 is one of the frontlines. This city is having a pretty intense conversation with itself over this issue, with extremes on both, or every side of it. Comments like the ones you made on your experience are hot buttons to push here. I'd be nervous too in your situation. I frequent DC9 and haven't had any real trouble, but have felt kinda uncomfortable. That said, when people blow it out of proportion it annoys me to no end. I don't really feel that you did. All you had was a (probably unneeded) warning about the neighborhood and a fairly uncommon experience that seemed to justify it. By the way, too bad I missed the set- from your myspace page you guys sound like a damn good band.

dcgirl928

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 19:25:32 -0500

On making $12: It is a band's job to promote their shows. If they don't promote enough & no one shows up, it's their fault, not the club's.

cminus

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 19:01:41 -0500

it just proves that even in high crime neighborhoods, there are still plenty of people who are not crime victims. And here we get to the heart of the matter. In a high-crime city like DC, you'd expect that a large number of people, in absolute terms, would be the victim of a serious crime. There are a whole freaking lot of people in DC -- locals, commuters, and tourists. But in relative terms? Not really. In 2005, DC had 195 homicides, or one for every 3,036 people. Then again, by way of comparison, South Carolina had 315 murders, or one for every 12,736 people. So South Carolina is four times safer? Nope. DC had 48 vehicular fatalities in 2005, or one for every 12,334 people. Total DC fatality rate from homicide and vehicle accidents: one in 2,436. South Carolina had 1,193 vehicular fatalities, or one for every 3,362 people. Total South Carolina fatality rate from homicide and vehicle accidents: one in 2,660. Not so different, really. The thing is, we panic about murder, which is disproportionately an urban problem, but we accept auto accidents, a predominantly suburban and rural cause of death, as normal. But if you asked me to choose between being shot and being run over by a truck, I'd say painful death is painful death. Any discussion of this topic is helped by checking out The Culture of Fear: Why Americans Are Afraid of the Wrong Things.

The Goo

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:54:53 -0500

Must... give.... my..... $.02! Jim, not only are your comments extremely offensive (as an Irish citizen who used to work at the Holocaust museum, you pretty much hit all the right buttons), it's "heil", not "hail, you fucking nitwit. Guy from the band- I can see where you're coming from, and it's cool that you took the time to clear things up. This resident of the neighborhood you ostensibly maligned forgives you and will look for upcoming tour dates just to support your act. Full disclosure: I am DCist Colin's friend at 14th and Clifton. I also grew up in Chicago (even fuller disclosure- the lily-white part). It's competely unfair to compare DC and Chicago- they are different-sized cities (both in population and area) with enormously different demographics and cultures. For that matter, it's unfair to make such a comparison with any city, especially a comparison based solely on anecdotal evidence. What shocks me about all of this that Colin touched on and no one responded to is the lack of community here. As Colin said, I live at 14th and Clifton. As soon as I moved in a year and a half ago, I made a conscious effort to get to know my neighbors and my neighborhood. This extends from my white-law student upstairs neighbors to the kids who hang out on the corner, to Rudolfo, our local crack addict (with whom I have had some amazingly interesting conversations with). I sit on my stoop and say "hi" and chat with my neighbors, who shoo off my porch the scary homeless guy who threatens everyone. I have made myself part of the community, and happily, it is home for me. Of course, it's not all idyllic Cliff Huxtable-city living- I've had my share of times when I've made the totally unnecessary phone call to tell a friend I'd be home in just a minute and oh did you feed the pitbull and rottweiler? It sucks. However, as I said, I grew up in lily-whitesville and suffered horrible abuse for years in my own home, so lily-whitesville ain't so idyllic for me either. One of the times I've felt most threatened on my block was when the crime emergency was declared and the curfew enacted (um, if crime happens inside, it's ok? I don't follow). My neighborhood felt strange and not unlike how a lot of you would describe it- shadowy and menacing. Ironically, the curfew had the effect of making me feel a lot less safe (bring on your stats about how awesome the curfew is; it's how I felt). Community is where you make it, and that's a lot more powerful than any b.s. stopgap Tony Williams has up his French-cuffed sleeve. Yes, the crime and violence in this city are abhorrent, but unless we all come together to make communities and make peoples feel like they belong and they're home, it's going to continue. That's all for today's after school special.

Reid

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:02:45 -0500

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I'm tired of the testimonial evidence. There is a simple way to determine whether an area is dangerous or not, look at the crime stats. They're not 100% accurate, but they can give you a pretty good idea of where and when it's dangerous. Whether or not you've lived in the area for 15 years, or whatever, and never been robbed proves nothing. You could live in the middle of a war zone and not be attacked, that doesn't make it safe, it just makes you lucky or more likely, it just proves that even in high crime neighborhoods, there are still plenty of people who are not crime victims.

robyns04

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:22:04 -0500

I've lived in DC for 20 years, often going down to the U St/Shaw area well before gentrification set in, and I have never had any problems beyond being harassed by some shady guys yelling lewd comments (which, having traveled extensively, I can assure you is not indigenous to DC). I recognize that there's a crime problem around here which is certainly worse in some areas of the city than others, but it's no worse than other cities and I feel perfectly safe going anywhere in the city so long as I'm being smart about it.

cat

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:21:42 -0500

Dave from N&W- if you or your bandmates felt threatened and uncomfortable during loadout you should have said something to a club employee. People at dc9 and 9:30 have good relationships with local cops and would have helped you.

dcist_eke

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:16:09 -0500

Sorry about the multiple comments- they didn't appear to be going through. *sigh* technology.

U Street Gays

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:05:57 -0500

Jason- You sound like a typical small-minded Dupont gay boy who needs to pack his shit up and move back to the Midwest...and pronto.

anon

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:03:50 -0500

DC9 paid the touring, headlining band $12 dollars?! That's shameful especially considering there were 20+ people in attendance that night. The band would have done better passing a hat.

Jim

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:55:21 -0500

Am I the only one sorry that this crowd of indie-losers DIDN'T get their equiment ripped off? I'm just spiteful like that but I like the idea of fey indie-hipsters getting an old-fashioned shoeing. They should add the Glasgow Barrowlands and the Brixton Academy to their list of venues to avoid - much scarier than 9th & U, believe me. Anyone fancy putting a mob together for when Belle & Sebastian next come to town? They have some serious bovver coming to them... Finally, I love when hipsters bitch about having pennys thrown at them by vicious teenagers. What, were you never 14? That's what kids do. Smash up phone booths, steal car badges, smoke badly rolled spliffs and try to convince other 14 year olds to have sex with them. Then they (we) grew up and started rolling better spliffs and left the random acts of violence behind. Or maybe that's just East End of Glasgow for yer. Nakamura...He eats chow mein and he votes Sinn Fein! Hail!

Frank

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:45:45 -0500

I was at DC9 that night, went to My Morning Jacket later though. While I don't agree the U Street area is "particularly bad" their opinion of the neighborhood isn't completely unfounded. I feel for them, I'm sure it was an unnerving experience. However, they shouldn't let one experience form their opinion of U Street. I don't know what their payment arrangement was with DC9, but my two beers that night pretty much payed their salary. I think the owners of DC9 could have afforded to pay them better.

Dave from Norfolk & Western

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:45:15 -0500

"I’ve never been so happy to leave a city in my life." was completely untrue and idiotic as well. Thanks for reminding me. It wasn't the city at all - it was the situation. -Dave

Jason

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:41:40 -0500

Dave from N&W - You have *NOTHING* to apologize for.

Malcolm J.

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:41:02 -0500

Dave, Thanks for stopping by and weighing in. I think "Washington, D.C. is not the safest city in the world to begin with." din't really rub people the wrong way as much as "I’ve never been so happy to leave a city in my life." Can't blame you for being pissed at your treatment by the soundguy at DC9 though.

Jason

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:40:59 -0500

Dave from N&W - You have *NOTHING* to apologize for.

dcist_eke

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:35:20 -0500

While I agree that Ian et. al. have a point- be aware of your surroundings, and with heavy foot traffic in this city you are less likely to get mugged etc...That doesn't change the fact that I got mugged right in front of my apartment at 8pm on a Friday night. Was I paying attention to my surroundings? you bet...Was there heavy foot traffic on my street- absolutely not. And thats a 14th inbetween S and T st NW. It happened to be one of those times when there was really nothing I could have done to prevent it- the luck was not with me. Do I feel unsafe? not really, but that doesn't mean I am presumptuous enought to feel "safe" when walking down an empty street at night. I feel like getting mugged is something that happens more often in cities, and to suggest that cities are safer than suburbs in this regard is a real stretch.

Ben

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:35:09 -0500

Jason, Your "ghetto blacks" and "dangerous ghetto pit" language is disgusting and adds nothing to this discussion. Next time you move, maybe you could pick the neighborhood with the highest average income level and the lowest percentage of black people. it would be racist and classist, but at least you might be more comfortable.

dcist_eke

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:34:23 -0500

If you have a TypeKey identity, you can sign in to use it here. Name: Email Address: URL: Remember personal info? Comments: (you may use HTML tags for style*) While I agree that Ian et. al. have a point- be aware of your surroundings, and heavy foot traffic etc...That doesn't change the fact that I got mugged right in front of my apartment at 8pm on a Friday night. Was I paying attention to my surroundings? you bet...Was there heavy foot traffic on my street- absolutely not. And thats a 15th and S st NW. It happened to be one of those times when there was really nothing I could have done to prevent it- the luck was not with me. Do I feel unsafe? not really, but that doesn't mean I am presumptuous enought to feel "safe" when walking down an empty street at night. I feel like getting mugged is something that happens more often in cities, and to suggest that cities are safer than suburbs in this regard is a real stretch. Preview While I agree that Ian et. al. have a point- be aware of your surroundings, and heavy foot traffic etc...That doesn't change the fact that I got mugged right in front of my apartment at 8pm on a Friday night. Was I paying attention to my surroundings? you bet...Was there heavy foot traffic on my street- absolutely not. And thats a 14th and S/T st NW. It happened to be one of those times when there was really nothing I could have done to prevent it- the luck was not with me. Do I feel unsafe? not really, but that doesn't mean I am presumptuous enought to feel "safe" when walking down an empty street at night. I feel like getting mugged is something that happens more often in cities, and to suggest that cities are safer than suburbs in this regard is a real stretch.

Dave from Norfolk & Western

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:34:20 -0500

FROM THE GUY IN NORFOLK & WESTERN THAT WROTE THE POST THAT STARTED THIS WHOLE THING. Holy shit, I had no idea what I was starting when I wrote that. A few ponts I'd like to make. 1. I am very sorry if I offended anybody (which I did, apparently). 2. What I wrote expressed my opinion and my opinion only, and not the opinions of the fine people I am lucky enough to play with in Norfolk & Western. 3. The diary entry I made was merely for a site that is run by Portland's local weekly paper, the Willamette Week. I was not attempting to slander the city of Washington, D.C. in any way. I regret the statement "Washington, D.C. is not the safest city in the world to begin with." That is a completely foolish blanket statement and I apologize for it fully. 4. A friend of mine that came to the show told me to be careful because we were in a bad area of town. I know nothing about D.C. I know nothing about D.C.'s neighborhoods. When we're on tour we are in a different city each day and have no idea what kind of neighborhood we are going to be playing in, and all of us have found ourselves in bad situations before. When you spend months at a time in a different area of different cities, it's smart to watch your back and ask about your surroundings. When we arrived at the club, I didn't look around and say "oooh, this looks like a bad neighborhood" or "oh my god, there are black people around, this must be a dangerous place." I merely wrote that because, in fact, somebody had told me it wasn't safe, which is somebody else's opinion, not mine, and which is a statement that is independent of the racial makeup of the surrounding area. 5. I mentioned that I ASSUMED we were being cased by "gang members" because at 2 A.M. there was a group of men wearing gang colors and face masks, standing directly next to (and leaning up against) our van, brazenly staring at our pile of expensive and hard-earned equipment, and making threatening statements to a female that was traveling with us! Imagine yourself in a city that you have barely been to before and having this happen to you. You wouldn't like it, trust me! I didn't say they were black, or Puerto Rican, or Asian, etc... a suspicious person is a suspicious person, regardless of their race or where they live, and in this particular situation there happened to be seven of them, and they were obviously interested in making all of us uncomfortable, if nothing else. 6. I have nothing against the DC9, and neither does anybody else in the band. I also did not complain about how many people were at the show (in fact, we all thought there was a pretty good crowd there for a Monday night). However, the sound guy on this particular night was totally rude to us, laughed at or completely ignored the most basic requests from us, and just seemed generally unprofessional. When you spent a month of your life in a fucking van driving ten hours a day, and loading two tons of gear up and down flights of stairs every fucking night, it's pretty disheartening to be treated poorly by the person that you completely depend upon to make you sound good each night. I thought that the DC9 was a cool club with incredibly cool people working there, and it's not their fault that we got paid 12 bucks either. It just sucks to spend 100 bucks on gas and 100 bucks on lodging each night and make 12 bucks. It sucks to work your ass off and get laughed at and lose a lot of money. That's all. It was a statement of fact, not a reflection upon the club. Anyway, that's what I wanted to say. I hope that some of you will realize that I'm not a D.C.-hating lily-white granola-munching primadonna, and that I look forward to playing in D.C. again if you'll have us back. Friends? -Dave Depper Norfolk & Western

Ben

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:33:16 -0500

Jason, Seriously, your anecdotal evidence isn't that convincing. My wife lived in Chicago (North Side) for a year and got attacked. She has now lived in DC for 3 years and nothing has happened. Now you can volly another anecdotal story back. We can throw up anecdotal evidence all day but it won't do anything. What's extremely offensive and sickening is your language of "ghetto blacks" and "dangerous ghetto pit." Maybe next time you move you could just do it based on what place has the highest income levels and the lowest percentage of black people. You might be happier.

dcist_eke

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:33:03 -0500

While I agree that Ian et. al. have a point- be aware of your surroundings, and heavy foot traffic etc...That doesn't change the fact that I got mugged right in front of my apartment at 8pm on a Friday night. Was I paying attention to my surroundings? you bet...Was there heavy foot traffic on my street- absolutely not. And thats a 15th and S st NW. It happened to be one of those times when there was really nothing I could have done to prevent it- the luck was not with me. Do I feel unsafe? not really, but that doesn't mean I am presumptuous enought to feel "safe" when walking down an empty street at night. I feel like getting mugged is something that happens more often in cities, and to suggest that cities are safer than suburbs in this regard is a real stretch.

Dave from Norfolk & Western

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:32:57 -0500

Dave from Norfolk & Western

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:32:05 -0500

FROM THE GUY IN NORFOLK & WESTERN THAT WROTE THE POST THAT STARTED THIS WHOLE THING. Holy shit, I had no idea what I was starting when I wrote that. A few ponts I'd like to make. 1. I am very sorry if I offended anybody (which I did, apparently). 2. What I wrote expressed my opinion and my opinion only, and not the opinions of the fine people I am lucky enough to play with in Norfolk & Western. 3. The diary entry I made was merely for a site that is run by Portland's local weekly paper, the Willamette Week. I was not attempting to slander the city of Washington, D.C. in any way. I regret the statement "Washington, D.C. is not the safest city in the world to begin with." That is a completely foolish blanket statement and I apologize for it fully. 4. A friend of mine that came to the show told me to be careful because we were in a bad area of town. I know nothing about D.C. I know nothing about D.C.'s neighborhoods. When we're on tour we are in a different city each day and have no idea what kind of neighborhood we are going to be playing in, and all of us have found ourselves in bad situations before. When you spend months at a time in a different area of different cities, it's smart to watch your back and ask about your surroundings. When we arrived at the club, I didn't look around and say "oooh, this looks like a bad neighborhood" or "oh my god, there are black people around, this must be a dangerous place." I merely wrote that because, in fact, somebody had told me it wasn't safe, which is somebody else's opinion, not mine, and which is a statement that is independent of the racial makeup of the surrounding area. 5. I mentioned that I ASSUMED we were being cased by "gang members" because at 2 A.M. there was a group of men wearing gang colors and face masks, standing directly next to (and leaning up against) our van, brazenly staring at our pile of expensive and hard-earned equipment, and making threatening statements to a female that was traveling with us! Imagine yourself in a city that you have barely been to before and having this happen to you. You wouldn't like it, trust me! I didn't say they were black, or Puerto Rican, or Asian, etc... a suspicious person is a suspicious person, regardless of their race or where they live, and in this particular situation there happened to be seven of them, and they were obviously interested in making all of us uncomfortable, if nothing else. 6. I have nothing against the DC9, and neither does anybody else in the band. I also did not complain about how many people were at the show (in fact, we all thought there was a pretty good crowd there for a Monday night). However, the sound guy on this particular night was totally rude to us, laughed at or completely ignored the most basic requests from us, and just seemed generally unprofessional. When you spend a month of your life in a fucking van driving ten hours a day, and loading two tons of gear up and down flights of stairs every fucking night, it's pretty disheartening to be treated poorly by the person that you completely depend upon to make you sound good each night. I thought that the DC9 was a cool club with incredibly cool people working there, and it's not their fault that we got paid 12 bucks either. It just sucks to spend 100 bucks on gas and 100 bucks on lodging each night and make 12 bucks. It sucks to work your ass off and get laughed at and lose a lot of money. That's all. It was a statement of fact, not a reflection upon the club. Anyway, that's what I wanted to say. I hope that some of you will realize that I'm not a D.C.-hating lily-white granola-munching primadonna, and that I look forward to playing in D.C. again if you'll have us back. Friends? -Dave Depper Norfolk & Western

Dave from Norfolk and Western

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:23:12 -0500

FROM THE GUY IN NORFOLK & WESTERN THAT WROTE THE POST THAT STARTED THIS WHOLE THING. Holy shit, I had no idea what I was starting when I wrote that. A few ponts I'd like to make. 1. I am very sorry if I offended anybody (which I did, apparently). 2. What I wrote expressed my opinion and my opinion only, and not the opinions of the fine people I am lucky enough to play with in Norfolk & Western. 3. The diary entry I made was merely for a site that is run by Portland's local weekly paper, the Willamette Week. I was not attempting to slander the city of Washington, D.C. in any way. I regret the statement "Washington, D.C. is not the safest city in the world to begin with." That is a completely foolish blanket statement and I apologize for it fully. 4. A friend of mine that came to the show told me to be careful because we were in a bad area of town. I know nothing about D.C. I know nothing about D.C.'s neighborhoods. When we're on tour we are in a different city each day and have no idea what kind of neighborhood we are going to be playing in, and all of us have found ourselves in bad situations before. When you spend months at a time in a different area of different cities, it's smart to watch your back and ask about your surroundings. When we arrived at the club, I didn't look around and say "oooh, this looks like a bad neighborhood" or "oh my god, there are black people around, this must be a dangerous place." I merely wrote that because, in fact, somebody had told me it wasn't safe, which is somebody else's opinion, not mine, and which is a statement that is independent of the racial makeup of the surrounding area. 5. I mentioned that I ASSUMED we were being cased by "gang members" because at 2 A.M. there was a group of men wearing gang colors and face masks, standing directly next to (and leaning up against) our van, brazenly staring at our pile of expensive and hard-earned equipment, and making threatening statements to a female that was traveling with us! Imagine yourself in a city that you have barely been to before and having this happen to you. You wouldn't like it, trust me! I didn't say they were black, or Puerto Rican, or Asian, etc... a suspicious person is a suspicious person, regardless of their race or where they live, and in this particular situation there happened to be seven of them, and they were obviously interested in making all of us uncomfortable, if nothing else. 6. I have nothing against the DC9, and neither does anybody else in the band. I also did not complain about how many people were at the show (in fact, we all thought there was a pretty good crowd there for a Monday night). However, the sound guy on this particular night was totally rude to us, laughed at or completely ignored the most basic requests from us, and just seemed generally unprofessional. When you spend a month of your life in a fucking van driving ten hours a day, and loading two tons of gear up and down flights of stairs every fucking night, it's pretty disheartening to be treated poorly by the person that you completely depend upon to make you sound good each night. I thought that the DC9 was a cool club with incredibly cool people working there, and it's not their fault that we got paid 12 bucks either. It just sucks to spend 100 bucks on gas and 100 bucks on lodging each night and make 12 bucks. It sucks to work your ass off and get laughed at and lose a lot of money. That's all. It was a statement of fact, not a reflection upon the club. Anyway, that's what I wanted to say. I hope that some of you will realize that I'm not a D.C.-hating lily-white granola-munching primadonna, and that I look forward to playing in D.C. again if you'll have us back. Friends? -Dave Depper Norfolk & Western

Starduster

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:17:27 -0500

Man, denial is sure a popular place to live lately. I'm down at Velvet Lounge, 930 Club or DC9 - not to mention R&R Hotel, Red and Black Bar several times a week. All these neighborhoods are scarey. In case you dudes haven't noticed, there were five attempted rapes in the Shaw/Howard U. area this past week... a shooting of a local architect this past summer a few blocks away, a drive-by shooting in June which wasn't even reported anywhere in the media. There are some very scarey gangs of older black guys hanging out in the block by DC9. They've hassled other bands - including one who had a guitar stolen, which was recovered by a band member who ran the thief down to recover it. Why the big defensive posture? It's bad. The only reason more hasn't gone on up at the 930 club is because the perimeter is carpeted with uniformed and plain-clothes off-duty cops - thus a private police force which guards against the reality of the crappy neighborhood. You guys should be more apologetic and perhaps even compassionate: and yeah, the sound SUCKS at DC9 on some nights and $12.00/night is HORRIBLE compensation, no matter what night of the year it is. Covering up the reality of these areas just serves to attract naive club hoppers and music fans who may be less than careful when visiting these clubs.

Don

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:08:31 -0500

What I'm trying to say is that I've heard that same old chestnut so many times that I don't believe it. I do not believe the story is true as they presented it. I've never been mugged and when loved ones were, once was in a perfectly safe neighborhood but the guy was nuts and the other time it was by kids on bikes in Gaithersburg. The only times I've been really threatened have been in NYC. Period. I've also been in bad situations in Balto. I've been stared at by dealers here, but I just walk away and no one bothers me. DC is not perfect, but thank god we aren't as bad as Brooklyn or Baltimore. And I bet there are people reading that like, WHAT? Yet that has been my experience. Don

imgoph

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:02:57 -0500

oooh oooh oooh....let's see who can come up with the most "scary" sounding street they've walked down in the middle of the night without getting mugged/killed/raped/beaten up on/had their accordion stolen/lost their milk money/skinned their knees. i live in bloomingdale (look it up). when i moved there people who didn't know the area said i was fucking crazy. like, i'd be shot at every hour on the hour. i've walked around the neighborhood and never felt unsafe. i've been wary of my situation, and avoided situations that looked like they could be potentially problematic. i used to live just off u street (a couple doors from the corner of 13th and u) and felt fine there too. i'm not saying this to burnish any "urban hipster cred", just to give a counterbalance to the seemingly high number of posts here that are saying "DC is inherently dangerous fools, get a clue" if that's what the 'average' dcist reader thinks, than i guess i'm not average.

don

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:52:49 -0500

The NoVa suburbs are a lot of positive and negative things, but less diverse than DC is not one of them. --------- Surely you're joking. Chantilly, Loudon, Falls Church, etc, are less-racially diverse than Mt Pleasant where I live, which is about 1/3 white, 1/3 Latin and the remainder a mix of African-American and Asian. I'm not saying that it's some badge of pride, like somehow that means something better than a less-diverse area. But just because there are Latin and Asian people in Annandale doesn't mean that Leesburg isn't 75% white. The story about the "gang" surrounding the band's van is one I've heard repeated over and over again by midwestern grunge bands and pretty much if the equipment wasn't stolen it was probably a homeless guy trying to bum a cigarette and the band freaked. Been there before with other bands. Don

pantsrock

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:52:25 -0500

Hmmm. Have any of the people condemning the band actually toured in a rock band? To consider: that van they are driving likely gets about 15 miles a gallon, gas to the next gig costs easily $30-60 and they are a couple thousand miles from home. They got paid what-$12? The club has to pay their people too, and there are few guarantees in the dream world of indie rock. Who knows how the soundguy got paid. If the band doesn't draw, and their fans are bookish teetotaling indie-nerds rather than hard drinking bar hounds, then I'm sorry-they need to realize that they aren't the Beatles. An alcoholic fan base is a must to succeed in the club scene. The clubs are living off of bar revenue and have to pay the rent, the soundguy, the electricity, etc. Having toured I know not to expect much from a soundguy. Attitude is sadly de facto for many in the sound reinforcement business. Any whiny indie rockers sometimes have unrealistic expectations of what can be done for them. So who knows. The soundguy with the dreads there at DC9 did awesome hyper-professional things at a show a while back, but I haven't been to a show there recently. I think the sound sucks in the room generally. As to the band’s gear, if any of their gear gets messed with, they have to cancel the tour and find their way back home. Every try and borrow an accordion from the local opening band or headliner? Load out is a tenuous time, and their whole tour can be derailed if they lose a single instrument. Losing a single cable or power adapter can really mess things up if you are tight on time and can't find the one guitar center in town. Sketchy confrontational dudes hanging out and eyeballing your stuff is not a happy feeling. That’s the most expensive stuff they collectively own being tossed into the back of that van, which they likely live in, so that dude leaning on their van is kind of messing with their house. Cities have a way of making strangers feel uncomfortable. DC is no exception. I've toured a good bit and hung with a lot of friends when they come through town. My fave was standing outside of the velvet lounge and watching a band get their rental van clipped in a hit and run. They were agog. DC will do that to you I suppose. I assure you that DC is one of the rougher stops on any national tour. Not the worst—other come to mind New Orleans, El Paso (awesome people, but rough city--weapon checks at the door of the arcade we played), and of course New York. Yeah, any border town in Texas has a lot edgier vibe than DC. [“foreign relations” for $200 please, Alex} South Central LA doesn’t have rock clubs so I can’t tell you what it is like to play there. And maybe that’s the point—DC has rock clubs, mostly full of white kids, on U street—the “black broadway” of days gone by. I just went to H street and the clubs were mostly full of white yuppies transplanted into the neighborhood to party. Is there anything wrong with that? Perhaps so if the economic benefits pass the locals by. It felt kind of odd to me. Maybe DC needs more places for people from differing backgrounds to interact that are based around interests that aren’t so racially defined—rock clubs tend to be full of white kids, often from (703) or (301). (Yes, it is awfully quaint to be drinking in a converted brownstone with a nasty “bathroom” as opposed to the TGI Fridays that serves as a watering hole in your suburban (703) hood!) Clubs also tend to be full of people with money to burn. Maybe not everybody in DC is a lawyer with money to pay a cover and $5 or more for a single beer. Maybe more scaredy-cat white kids need to brown bag a drink and hang out in front of the local gas station (seemingly the social epicenter of my hood) rather than scurry into their clubs past the people they don’t understand. Some cities might have an active drug trade, but it doesn’t have the sketchy unorganized tension that DC does. I remember trying to catch some sleep in my van after a set at Emo's in Austin and watching a crack deal go down every 2 or 3 minutes a few feet away, but I was able to sleep and I felt safer there than in DC. Say what you will about the causes--(gentrification, lack of opportunities –be they work opportunities or education, and a lack of activities for youth, etc) but the reality is that there are many stories of violence and hatred out there. There is a youth crime issue here. The laws do not provide serious consequences to juvenile offenders, nor does the educational and social system provide kids with opportunities to do better things with their time than steal cars, throw things at people, or beat people up because they are different. What I'm saying is that DC can be a scary place to be when you first visit, because there is a lot of frustration between people. I have friends from 3rd world countries who don’t feel safe here. Though DC is no Mexico city-- the land of express kidnappings, where you get kidnapped at 10 pm so that you can withdraw money from your atm to the maximum amount twice-once at 10 pm and again at 2 am, and then get dumped off somewhere. And let’s not even bring up one’s feeling of personal safety in Iraq.

Jason

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:51:30 -0500

Oh, and Ryan, I've lived pretty much all over the North Side lakefront areas - Lakeview, Uptown (both Buena Park and real Uptown), Edgewater Beach. I've taken the el at any time of the day or night, waited for the Red Line at 5am at Argyle and Bway, walked home late at night on Winthrop from Bryn Mawr, and the closest I've ever had to a crime experience in Chicago is some crazy black guy almost hitting me as he turned off Winthrop to LSD at 40 mph. I understand what you're saying about Hyde Park, and I agree - I'd feel very uncomfortable sauntering around HP late at night as well. But, now that you mention it, HP has a lot of the same issues that DC as a whole does - lots of angry black people who hate whites, the rubbing up of very wealthy (albeit highly liberal) whites with poor, ghetto blacks, and all the attendant crime. Also lots of sheltered, "suburban" kids who come to HP for college and don't know enough not to walk home down deserted streets drunk as a skunk at 4am. Nothing's ever happened to me anywhere. But nothing's ever happened, that I know of in the last 30 years, to any of my friends and family in Chicago. I've never meet anyone in NY who was mugged in the past decade. And, in less than a year in DC, I know *LOTS* of people with stories of getting mugged walking out of Apex or somewhere in Dupont.

Chocolate City All Stars

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:45:21 -0500

This will be my last post on the subject: just let me say that everything has felt different since I got attacked at the metro (see Chocolate City All Stars post above). It's easy to brush everything off, but actual physical violence not so much. Now every little piece of harassment kind of inflects that experience. And I still have a scar, so it's kind of like for real for real. I usually feel safe, but like, sometimes people say things that are obviously intended to make you feel unsafe, and now I understand that of those times occasionally they really mean it. The desire to reduce violence, I believe, transcends issues of gentrification/anti-gentrification and certainly of race and class. I could take all kinds of harassment if only there weren't the occasional outbreak of violence to make it all so much scarier. Harassment sucks, but I used to look at it as a kind of hazing. Now when someone says something nasty it really scares me.

Jason

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:31:51 -0500

No, Colin, I'm not name-dropping Harlem to make myself sound cool. I mentioned it to preempt some of the inevitable comments to the effect that, if you don't just love U St. to bits, then you hate/fear/despise black people (see response 5). Surely you remember the thread from this summer about the crime emergency, which degenerated rapidly into barely-concealed race diatribes.....?

sqdc

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:31:49 -0500

Man, these threads get stupid in both directions. The best assessment is somewhere between "You're only scared b/c you're a racist suburbanite!" and "You'll be attacked by marauding packs of drug-dealing thugs and zombies if you set foot on U Street after 7". It's like a contest between hipsters proving their urban progressive cred followed by the rebuttals by people trying to prove how unbeholden they are to the hipsters' political correctness, tossing out angry tirades about crime (often with racial subtext). Somewhere in the middle are the reasonable opinions that rarely seem to make it to online comment threads. If you fit the profile of your average DCist reader, you're a liar if you say you feel completely comfortable at 9th & U after midnight on a Monday. That said, my experience differs wildly from many of the terrifying charecterizations of DC on many of these threads, to the point that I start to wonder if that discrepancy has to do with me being lucky or other people exaggerating their stories or being overly fearful. The answer is probably somewhere in between.

U Street Resident

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:28:46 -0500

I agree with dcist_ian. I have been living in DC for 7 years, three of them in the U Street area, the other 4 in Northeast. I have been one of the lucky urbanites that have hit the "right combination of cautiousness and luck." Many of my DC friends who also live in this area seem to fall into this category as well. Yes, it isn't a perfect area, and people have been mugged and attacked, but this happens in many cities. I walk back home from the 930 club and the Black Cat (and DC) many times and have rarely felt unsafe. I am a young female, and if i didn't feel safe in this neighborhood i wouldn't live here. If you feel unsafe in this neighborhood, then don't come.

James L

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:24:45 -0500

I'm mostly indifferent to this. On the one hand, whiny people talking bad about my city and referring to a group of black people they were afraid of as "gang members" certainly raises suspicion. On the other hand, that area of DC isn't exactly the nicest, and all these people saying they walk around U St. at 3AM without a care in the world are either crazy or lying. But, has anyone checked out the DC crime map to put actual facts behind these arguments? I don't have the time to look, but check out here and see which areas have the most crime: http://crimemap.dc.gov/presentation/query.asp

Clay

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:24:38 -0500

Our neighborhood could only be considered not "particularly bad" in a city with a homicide rate 5 times the national average. The violence is a problem. Some kid shot some other kid at Cordoza - right outside my apartment a few weeks ago. My fiancee's been held up with a gun right outside our apartment. I've been robbed twice (once I was at the greyhound station and the other time I was wearing eyeliner, if we're looking for 'reasons'.) Car broken into twice. This is all in four years of living in the city - Adams Morgan, and now C-Heights. I like the neighborhood, but I can't stand the violence, and I want it to stop. And I want people to stop making excuses.

ryan nuanes

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:19:47 -0500

I agree while the city has some room for improvement, it is alot better than it was and the U St. area is by no means a deathtrap. Also Jason, what part of chicago exactly did you grow up in? I would much rather walk through U St. alone at 2 or 3 in the morning than take the cta in the late evening or walk through Hyde Park in the early morning...

dc928

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:18:51 -0500

Hillman- Could they be yelling slurs at you because you're a turbo? dc is a city. it has crime. it has racial and ethnic diversity. people should know that when they sign up to live here/visit. and if you people are all so scared of the "really bad neighborhood" around DC9 - quit going there & quit bitching about it.

DCist Colin

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:16:03 -0500

re: Jason's comment #16 I have no problems standing by myself at 6am with luggage at 125th St & St. Nicholas in Harlem, waiting for the M60 bus to take me to LaGuardia. I don't feel comfortable walking down Euclid or Fuller in Columbia Heights past 7pm if it's dark. Like others in this thread, I walk down Euclid and Fuller all the time, often well after dark. I've rarely felt unsafe or uncomfortable. Also, name dropping NYC and Harlem does not make you an authority (nor cool). About half the people in DC I know have been mugged at gunpoint or knifepoint, and they seem to think that's a totally normal part of city life. That does not happen in any other large US city. Um, yes it does. See Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Little Rock, Philly, Cleveland, St. Louis, Houston, New Orleans, Oakland/San Fran, L.A. for some examples. I am missing plenty of others. I'm not saying it should be a part of city life, but unfortunately, often it is. You try to make your own neighborhood the best you can by being friendly and visible. A friend of mine lives on 14th and Clifton, and the fact that the neighborhood kids know her by name makes her feel safe. Other than that, that sixth sense Graham described is worth checking out...

jesus_people

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:13:59 -0500

All a matter of personal opinion and experience, don't you think? I'm a native, born and raised, and have been harrassed in Georgetown under full streetlight. However, I've had a very nice group of gentlemen help me change a flat in Shaw in the wee hours. That isn't to say I'm not careful ANYWHERE that isn't lit well in the city... OR the suburbs, for that matter. So kindly piss off with the generalizations, the lot of you. Everyone's an expert, huh? And Jason... "About half the people in DC I know have been mugged at gunpoint or knifepoint, and they seem to think that's a totally normal part of city life?" I highly doubt HALF of ALL your acquaintances have experienced that, unless you have a seriously unusual group of friends.

monkeyrotica

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:13:16 -0500

What are a bunch of "kids" doing "harmlessly hanging out" in front of DC9 with masks on at 2am? Guess they didn't hear about the curfew.

dcist_ian

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:12:09 -0500

CCAS - *sigh* Yes, leave it to the internet to distort meaning and throw things between the lines that were never there. I'm not saying the neighborhood is a perfect candylane. I'm not saying I'm special just because I've engaged the right combination of cautiousness and luck. I'm just saying that my experience (and the experience of most people I know) does not reflect the chorus of negativity that comes out in these threads. And that calling it a "particularly bad" area is particularly hyperbolic. Graham hits it on the head when he says that these threads leave out the large middle area of experience, and that's what I was trying to get at. The area is imperfect, but what area is perfect? Bottom line, I love the neighborhood, or else I wouldn't have stayed here so long. It's got its problems, and we deal, and we support what solutions we can to make it better. It's a process, and sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. If you don't like it? Fine, you don't have to visit. But don't try to make it sound like the fiery gate of hell, because it's far from accurate.

monkeyrotica

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:11:50 -0500

What are a bunch of "kids" doing "harmlessly hanging out" in front of DC9 with masks on at 2am? Guess they didn't hear about the curfew.

Jim

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 15:09:18 -0500

Jason - perhaps they thought you were busking. Y'know, some living sculpture type of thing.

Sweet

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:59:31 -0500

For the record, I agree with Ian and Graham. When you live in a city, you develop a sixth sense for when a situation is dangerous, and I've never been robbed, or even messed with. These neighborhoods are fairly safe if you're not caught up in street life, and as long as you stay away from deserted blocks at three in the morning. I think most of this band's reactions were overreacting, and they should be taken with a grain of salt, when compared to the impressions of longtime residents, who all seem to think that while there are improvements to be made, it's not a deathtrap, or anything close. We can't all be Portland, unfortunately--there are only so many ex-Northern Californians to go around.

Candace

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:57:26 -0500

Oh, please Ian, if you were scared in Glover Park then that's just your weird perception. The fact is that there is much less crime (particularly mugging) in Glover Park than in U St./Shaw. What streets are you talking about that have heavy foot traffic in U St./Shaw? Ok, U St. But one block away from the main drag it gets empty and spooky pretty fast and there are plenty of dark alleys and places to hide before and after a crime is committed. In Glover Park people walk around at all hours *because they feel safe* and there's much more chance that neighbors will notice someone sketchy hanging around. Crime can happen anywhere in the District, but it stikes me as hilarious that you got so "creeped out" in quiet little Glover Park. Please stop trying to convince everyone that you're so "urban cool".

Veritas

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:56:03 -0500

We can debate true amount of violence in the city 'til thecows come home but I firmly object to black kids hanging out together=violent gang.Maybe the band didn't don't know the real gangs (MS13) are in MoCo and NoVA. There are troublemaking youth and then there are youth who like to hang out in their neighborhoods. They are not one in the same. Imagine that these kids were theyouth harmlessly hanging out, curious about someone with an accordian, then having a group of strangers call them theives. It's beyond insulting and hurtful. Having committed the great crime of being black in Brugge and not knowing Flemish for "I'm not stealing you're ugly crap", I can relate. Above some mentioned feeling safer in New York. Well,personally, I sleep well knowing I live several hours away from being shot 50 times unarmed or sodomized with a plunger. In DC. I have the luxury of fearing the criminals more than the cops.

vor

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:55:46 -0500

If our local venues keep booking these goddamn accordion bands, I might start stabbing some of these suburbanites mydamnself. Accordions = suburban ... ? I think it's safe to say that the term "suburbanite" has been thrown around so much and in so many different contexts that it has lost all meaning.

Jason

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:55:26 -0500

I've had black kids throw pennies at my neck in the middle of a crowded Metro car in front of 50 other people at 7:30 on a Saturday night. This city sucks.

Graham

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:49:55 -0500

These posts somehow hit all the highs and the lows without much middle. I feel pretty safe on U Street most of the time, and I feel ok walking to DC9 from my place in Columbia Heights. I don't think they are the safest places in DC, but they're not the worst either. You take all the precautions you can, you mind your surroundings, and you try to avoid potentially sticky situations. As for DC9, I feel like I'm the only one who has had good experiences with the sound. The drums, to my ears, sound crisp, and -- after some initial kinks -- the vocals tend to improve. For my money it's better than the Black Cat.

monkeyrotica

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:48:21 -0500

Can anyone confirm that Unemployed Gutter Troglodytes will be opening for Double Amputee Newsie at Club RHOS? We really need to support local grindcore bands that combine Tuval throat singing, Optigans, and Theremin.

Ben

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:47:18 -0500

Hey Chocolate City Blues.... So, is your "name" a reference to why you hate DC. Because it's "Chocolate City"?? If so, it might be best if you moved to Kansas, because I don't think the black folks are all going away.

Marcus

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:47:12 -0500

The area around the 9:30 Club and DC 9 has gotten WORSE in the past three years. I used to have no worries walking blocks to and from the 9:30 Club or even the old WUST hall when there were concerts there. Now I see all sorts of shady activity and hear about several muggings in the area every week. Plenty of people in those areas resent more prosperous white people taking over what was a historic black area, even if the gentrifiers are making it a more pleasant area. I remember a time when no white person would have gone east of 15th Street on U unless they actually intended to buy drugs. It's gotten much better, but still has a LONG way to go.

CCAS

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:47:04 -0500

Ian, you sound like Bill O'Reilly explaining why rape isn't really that big a problem. You surely deserve some kind of metal for not requiring beating-the-crap-out-of. Good show!

Chocolate City All Stars

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:37:37 -0500

I haven't the foggiest idea what to do except take cabs when I can afford them and be careful.

dcist_ian

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:36:01 -0500

You know, sometimes I read these threads and feel like I live in a different city. I've lived in a couple of different places in the Adams Morgan/Columbia Heights/U Street area for 8 years now, and have spent a lot of free time late at night in all these little regions and areas that all these people feel so unsafe in. Aside from an incident once where some pre-teens in Malcolm X Park were throwing small rocks at passersby (which, you know, happens plenty in the burbs, too), I've never felt threatened, unsafe, or scared. And I don't even have a car, so I'm out on foot, or on bike, late at night, alone, a lot. Yeah, I've known people that have had bad shit happen to them. And yeah, there are shady people hanging around. But you know what? That, too, happens plenty in the burbs. Safety is about being aware of your surroundings and not putting yourself at undue risk. Sounds like the band had an unfortunate convergence of bad experiences, but to characterize 9th and U as a "particularly bad area"? Whoever their source is, is full of shit. The most unsafe I've ever felt in the District? The two years I spent living in quiet, tree lined Glover Park. Because if someone really wants to do a job on you, they're much more likely to do it on a quiet street with no one around than a street with heavy foot traffic. I was more creeped out walking from the car I had then to my front door than I've ever been on scores of 3am walks/rides home in the "inner city".

Chocolate City All Stars

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:35:06 -0500

What is a solution?

Sweet

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:33:39 -0500

Wait, so the gangbangers didn't actually steal their xylophone? I mean, that alone constitutes proof that the block is a lot safer than it used to be. Perhaps Corrina expected them to offer to help load the truck. Why are we worried about these tools? Innocent people get shot in the head on U Street and racial strife pervades the neighborhood. I'm a bit more concerned about how that affects residents than what some whitebread tools from the provinces think about us and our indie-rock venues.

chocolate city blues

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:33:23 -0500

Hillman- Not living in a city, but living in THIS city.

Kaloramaist

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:29:58 -0500

Portland might be 95% white (and the other 5% caucasian), but there are shitloads of burnt-out strung-out, meth-, oxycontin-, and junk-addled, unemployed gutter troglodytes who lend the "downtown" area a nice grubby and dangerous atmosphere. And that's why everyone moves to the verdant pacific northwest, right? So they can be mugged and beaten and step on used needles every time they walk down the street? What an armpit.

Hillman

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:20:07 -0500

What's striking to me is that we all seem to think this is routine, that violent crime and intimidation are regrettable but just a fact of life. That it's just the price of living in the city.

brett

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:19:08 -0500

dc9 isn't all ages, who would want to play a show there? worst active venue in the city

chocolate city blues

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:13:05 -0500

DC is a festering crap hole. Too bad I like my job. I wish I didn't. If I could relocate to Portland I would be elated. Hell, if I could relocate to Kansas I would be elated!

han

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:06:08 -0500

Not that I have any problems walking around 9th and U, but the only time anyone has ever pulled a knife on me in DC was around the corner from the 930 club.

Chocolate City All Stars

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:05:49 -0500

Hillman, Sounds like you might have been here for the Howard U. homecoming. I've gotten all flavors of harassment since I moved to Clifton St. 2 years ago, but the worst was definitely getting hit in the forehead with a blunt object coming out of the Shaw metro. The kids didn't even steal anything, just ran away laughing, I was bleeding all over the place. There are some people around here who *really* don't like white people. Especially if you're a guy, there are folks walking around just looking to create a situation. There's very little you can do if you've been selected - being nice doesn't help, being nasty doesn't help either. Anyone who pretends they wouldn't be scared by 7 men standing around their truck trying to be scary is just so full of crap. That's the person with a suburban mentality, but don't worry - it will get beat out of them before two long.

hoyaparanoia

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:05:23 -0500

fuller street represent!!

Joe

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:02:46 -0500

They should play Baltimore next time...like, at the Talking Head...

Sexious Fexious

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:55:53 -0500

Well, I'm black - african, at least - and if a group of thugs got all close to my van while I was loading up my equipment, I'd probably be a little scared myself. I mean who the fuck does that unless they're trying to fuck with you. The presumption that they were "probably gangmembers" though typically cardigan-bearlingly crackerish was probably closer to that fact than anything else. I go to DC9 alot and 9 times out of 10, especially on weekends alot of the kids blocking the sidewalk playing cee-lo sling. One of the bartenders there got knocked out at Joe's Steak and Egg; she's like 4'11" maybe and gave no one any cause to attack her. I've heard shots pop off from that corner when I was at Kingpin or Velvet. The block requires one watches one's back. As for monday-after-thanksgiving booking, it was likley mad back in september and it's hard to judge the dates impact on turnout. then again it was a monday. wonder who the sound guy was ...? I dont know. I don't have any problem w their assessment. DC is rough and so is that block. Monday night's probably not the best time

Hillman

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:53:04 -0500

My last experience at DC9 was less than pleasant as well. Or, at least getting there was. For some idiot reason I had the cab driver stop several blocks away, as I wanted to walk and see what new was going on. I got verbally harassed the entire way. Not just the fairly innocuous panhandling I'm used to. Actual yelling and screaming, crazy shit. Quite a few references to my pale skin. Anyone that thinks this area is safe is fooling themselves. Is it better than it was? Yes. But it's still got a long way to go. And at least some of the problem seems to be driven by racial hatred. All I was doing was walking down the street, minding my own business, and I had people yelling racial crap at me and threatening me with bodily harm. Friends from NYC that come to DC often tell me they are surprised by how unsafe they feel here.

DCist Jason

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:49:32 -0500

Hey: I'd just like to announce that my new band, Double Amputee Newsie and the Radio Flyer Buttwagons, will be playing the grand opening of Rod's House of Semen. We specialize in power-accordion darkstep house, and sucking wildly. Come menace us, diverse peoples!

h4pr

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:49:30 -0500

If our local venues keep booking these goddamn accordion bands, I might start stabbing some of these suburbanites mydamnself. How I wish the 'gang' was actually the ghosts of DC punk rock past! And how I wish they'd stomped a mudhole in those clowns.

Malcolm J.

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:42:51 -0500

...or more likely he received a 30-year sentence but only served 2. "During Corrina’s set, Joe looked like he was either going to kill somebody or cry." From looking at their pic, my money's on "cry". Jesus, they had a lousy sound guy, didn't make much money (as someone pointed out they were playing on a Monday night- go figure), and some guys looked at them funny. For some of bands I know that would be a good night.

Politburo

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:41:20 -0500

maeella - You're trying to correct Jason, but you made the completely idiotic move of doing the same exact thing you're correcting him for. Tarring all of Southwest as unsafe is just as ridiculous as tarring all of Columbia Heights or U St. as unsafe. Some parts are fine, other parts not as much, just like the whole city. And I think the 'come on at least they didn't get robbed' argument is quite weak.

lkj

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:35:59 -0500

Even though I live in the U street area, I'll be the first to admit that 1. it has some safety issues and 2. the sound guy at DC9 is a dick. For 1- My friend's car was broken into right near the club and totally ransacked. I've been followed on a number of occasions by guys, who had they really wanted to, could have easily stolen any or all of my possessions. My guess, is yes, they just want to be intimidating- but ya know what- they sure are when you are a skinny indie kid with no means of defense. For 2- I've been to a couple of concerts where the soundguy was just absolutely terrible to the band, at one point even stopping them because they were playing "too loud." Uhm....this is a rock concert, no? We can stand up for our fair neighborhood all we want, but it sounds like this band's complaints are warrented.

Jason

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:34:11 -0500

Oh, you've got me in the neighborhood, Jim - I'm right around the corner. Enjoy Section 8 living, big boy.

maeella

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:33:27 -0500

Jason: You LIVE in Columbia heights? How do you even manage to pull your ass out of your house everday to meander around this "ghetto pit" dealing with all of the "haughty prisspots" and servers with attitude. I, a 23 year old female, walked along down Fuller Saturday night with no qualms at all. Sure, there are parts of DC which are scary, but I don't think that U Street is bad at all, and I definitely think that large parts of Columbia Heights are totally safe. Have you ever even been to Southwest? Geez. And as far as the band goes, I am sorry they had such a bad time of it. The money thing sucks, but what do you expect on such a slow day? As far as their "gang experience", sounds like the guys were just pushing their buttons. I agree it would be intimidating, but come on. They didn't get robbed or anything while they were here. Just had a bad show. Boo hoo.

monkeyrotica

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:28:32 -0500

What strikes me is the guy yelling "I've got 30 years, bitch." Assuming he went to jail on his 18th birthday, that would make him at least 48 years old, hardly youth gang material. Sounds like your typical swaggering, horsecock jerk who loiters around clubs after hours trying to compensate for their fragile egos. The cheaper the hood the louder the talk. Or maybe he meant he's got 30 years to get his GED. If so, I applaud the tenacity and stick-to-itiveness of this plucky street urchin. Keep reaching for that rainbow!

Jim

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:26:39 -0500

Speaking as a resident of Euclid, I am perfectly happy not to have Jason in the neighborhood after 7 p.m. I would be even happier if he could spread the word to several of his friends.

bawler

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:18:22 -0500

Good thing these guys didn't play H Street's Red and the Black. That would've really shocked their Portland-esque worldview.

Politburo

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:14:22 -0500

I agree with some of this piece.. in terms of "a particularly bad area", etc.. But the 'gang members' part, if the band's account is accurate, certainly seems justified. I'd definitely call a group of 6-7 people in masks/bandanas a gang. This part is kind of being laughed off by some, but I think most people would have been intimidated in that situation.

AngryDCF#@k

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:11:41 -0500

"perhaps we could recommend that Norfolk & Western stick to playing venues in less diverse, suburban areas" I second Reid's comment on the above inane observation. I can only assume you enjoy harassment and poor service? If so, no wonder you love this town so much. Right, because it's teh awesome to be around loud, obnoxious people who act like thugs and throw rocks at buses and bicyclists for fun. But I read in Harpers that its really okay, because white people suk balls and are not tolerant of different cultures and being harassed by thugs and we're not doing enough to give them productive reasons to be civilized members of society. F this third-world craphole masquerading as a capital city. ADCF

Jason

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:08:26 -0500

Oh, STFU you holier-than-thou morons. DC is a dangerous ghetto pit, and you know it. The band's complaints about safety are totally plausible (I don't have a clue about the mic problems, but if the bar people are at all like most service staff in DC, they're probably all future lawyers in training who hate their menial jobs and loathe anyone with the gall to ask that they do what they're paid to do. And before you start ripping into me like you did the band, I grew up in Chicago and lived there or NYC most of my adult life. I have no problems standing by myself at 6am with luggage at 125th St & St. Nicholas in Harlem, waiting for the M60 bus to take me to LaGuardia. I don't feel comfortable walking down Euclid or Fuller in Columbia Heights past 7pm if it's dark. About half the people in DC I know have been mugged at gunpoint or knifepoint, and they seem to think that's a totally normal part of city life. IT'S NOT, PEOPLE. That does not happen in any other large US city. U St. is dangerous. Shaw is dangerous. Columbia Heights (where I live) is dangerous. DC IS DANGEROUS. And to state that is not to harbor deepseated race hatred or fear of black people, you haughty prisspots. It's a fact.

Red Line

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:07:59 -0500

"Please... can't we be honest? That neighborhood is rife with drug dealers and stick-up guys. If I had a job that allowed me to live in the Pacific Northwest I'd be there in a heartbeat. Why deal with the inner city if you don't have to?" I go to DC9 all the time and have never been bothered, yet today in Tenleytown I was accosted by a homeless guy. Generalizations are awesome.

FancyPants

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:02:20 -0500

monkeyrotica, post of the year. Too bad I had to wait until December for somebody to use the word "buttwagon."

Jman

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:59:40 -0500

Please... can't we be honest? That neighborhood is rife with drug dealers and stick-up guys. If I had a job that allowed me to live in the Pacific Northwest I'd be there in a heartbeat. Why deal with the inner city if you don't have to?

Stone

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:58:34 -0500

Oh, cut the crap. The U Street area is STILL a particularly bad area. Just because there are million dollar condos there but that doesn't automatically make it safe. As for DC9, I've gone to shows there and the locals (not GANG MEMBERS, btw, DC doesn't have LA-style gangs) have tried to intimidate my and my friends before/after shows. I'm not talking about Pierre, but dudes who just want to start trouble. We almost got into several fights with people outside, especially when he started hurling slurs at one of my friends. Having that said, most of these "gang members" are harmless and just looking to freak out the DC9 people. But I can see how some types of people can have an adverse reaction.

monkeyrotica

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:55:27 -0500

Judging by their photo, they look like they'd be intimidated by a double-amputee newsie in a Radio Flyer buttwagon. And if they think Shaw is "a particularly bad area," they must strap on the Extra-Absorbent Depends when they play Atlanta or Detroit.

Reid

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:51:57 -0500

"perhaps we could recommend that Norfolk & Western stick to playing venues in less diverse, suburban areas" The NoVa suburbs are a lot of positive and negative things, but less diverse than DC is not one of them. Unless, of course, by "less diverse", you mean just "less black."

alex_pastepunk

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:49:22 -0500

the only accordionist I'd ever want to see is Urkel. i'm sure Burlington will be more accomodating.

ryan nuanes

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:41:53 -0500

Good riddance; I hope they never come back. They can continue playing out the rest of their careers in NY.

bb

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:41:23 -0500

just don't have them back. problem solved. save the accordian acts for the decemberists and ra ra fra or whatever.

imgoph

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:36:49 -0500

maybe we should just stop caring what some stupid indie band things, says, or does.

Ben

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:36:19 -0500

This type of comment is unfortunately typical of quite a few other people I have met from the Pacific NW, and also from other crunchy "liberal" places like Vermont and Minneapolis (where I'm from). They think they're all tolerant and progressive, but aren't comfortable with actual diversity. I'm sure they thought U Street is a particularly bad neighborhood, because like 1/2 the people on the street are black.

e.d

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:33:22 -0500

I was at dc9 that night- the band has some creative imaginations cause there were no marauding gangs around the club--just pierre

Jaynuze

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:15:39 -0500

"perhaps we could recommend that Norfolk & Western stick to playing venues in less diverse, suburban areas where they would feel less threatened by 'gang members.'" Guess the same advice could be applied to some of your readers too!

obliviosly.

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:07:30 -0500

The best part about the metro DC area, is leaving the metro DC area!

Jim Smalley

Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:04:35 -0500

Duh, everyone knows you can turn a perfectly bad night around with a slab of Jumbo Slice.