May 25, 2007
Shiloh Properties Watch: Day 5
Still no action on the condemned Shiloh Baptist Church properties. I've been posting photos of these buildings, which are under order by the city to be repaired by May 31, for a full week now. It seems unlikely this work, even if it began over the weekend, could all be completed in time to meet that deadline. The city has vowed to do the repair work and charge the church, via a lien, for it should Shiloh fail to comply.
The blog remaking le slum historique has posted excerpts from a 1990 Washington Post story that describes an eerily similar debate about the fate of Shiloh-owned properties in Shaw. It's remarkable to see that the city was having the same exact conversation about this issue 17 years ago.
I probably won't continue to post daily photos of these properties after today, but I will keep an eye on them to see if and when repair work begins. If something happens, we'll report it here on DCist.
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Photos or not, I hope you continue your daily Shiloh Watches until the deadline. I enjoy reading them and appreciate the attention being focused on this terrible neighbor.
It's also remarkable to see that the CHURCH was having the same exact conversation about this issue 17 years ago.
Sommer, please keep posting these. This is a very important topic and I like the initiative you've taken to document what's going on (or not going on in this case)
You seem pretty confident that the city won't rest on its laurels in making the repairs. What's to say someone won't bitch and moan next week and suddenly it's a whole new ball game again?
keep it up!!! perhaps this time something will be done
I'm sure people in Shaw are panting for daily updates. Do the rest of us a favor and put it on the Shaw listserv, okay? Thanks.
Mike Licht rhymes with Dike Bitcht. Thanks.
While this story definitely directly relates to Shaw, it also relates to all vacant properties in D.C., as D.C. is charting the course here for firmer action regarding all vacant properties. Shiloh is sure not to take remedial action before the deadline, so the test will be how swift the government will make good on its promise.
And seriously? Does it really bother you that much to see an article posted on DCist about which you have little or no interest?
THIS IS A PARODY!!! (Humorless, sterile K Street workers, ivy league holier than thou folks, and generally constipated DC fresh arrivals need not read it--you get too upset by humor it seems)
OMG! Oh my goodness, this is just terrible that this church is being so irresponsible to the community and the entire city--especially Georgetown. It is just horrible that this church can sit by idle and do nothing. Why isn't the president doing anything about this? You can email him at president ]at[ whitehouse.gov, just in case you didn't know.
I have walked by these properties before and they are so scary, sometimes I feel like a crackhead or a prostitute is going to come out of one of the windows and attack me. I'm from Johnson City, Tennessee and this kind of thing never happens where I'm from, so it should never happen here. This is outrageous! I'm going to post this information on my MySpace, FaceBook, and LiveJournal so that everyone I know can see it. I'm going to take a few days off work next week so I can take photos of ALL the houses and e-mail them to all the DC city council members and the mayor. I'm even going to e-mail them to Gov. Tim Kaine.
Before I moved near these houses, I never saw them. But now that I live here, something needs to be done. Why? Because my name is Sandy Johnson, and I won't stand for it.
These houses are keeping my property value down. If these houses were replaced with chic urban luxury lofts then my house would be worth $200,000 more. It would be great to have a Starbucks, and maybe even a cool new Urban Outfitters in these buildings. I bought my house for $220,000, these ugly houses are keeping me from having a lot of equity in my homes. If these houses were cleaned-up, the entire community would get better in months. So why are we all waiting so long?
Shaw Rez: Since you ask, I think daily postings on this smacks of persecution and uncharacteristically poor editorial judgment. If this blog is SHAWist, fine, call it that. If the topic broadens out to include other condemned properties across the District, great. Otherwise, no news is no news, even if the editor lives around the corner.
my husband works with a guy who goes to that church, and he thinks that they are going to do some work this weekend on those properties. they definitely cant get it all done. what a waste!
It would appear Mike Licht doesn't appreciate and value the District's historic properties or the need to keep them from crumbling. Too often we have seen landlords keep their buildings boarded up and in disrepair specifically so that as they started to crumble, they could get permission to have them razed, and build luxury condos or something else in their place (even black landlords of properties in historically black nieghborhoods, like the house that is no more at the corner of 9th and R St. NW). I have lived in or around DC my entire life, and no matter which area I lived in, I always thought it was a shame to see the beautiful historic homes downtown fall into disrepair and crumble just because the landlords didn't care or wanted to build something new (but not more beautiful) in their place. People that don't care should at least respect those who go out of their way to try to preserve the beauty of our nation's capital.
Kelby: Don't be absurd. You know nothing of the kind about me (and apparently nothing about historic preservation, either). Here's what you do know: I believe that a news story that says "nothing happened" isn't much of a news story. Sommer seems to have come to that conclusion as well.
the shaw bloggers are a bunch of attention whores. it is ok when they keep to their own blogs but it gets annoying when they hijack other forums en masse.
Because my name is Sandy Johnson, and I won't stand for it.
Yow, take that, big fat obvious target!
Second that this ongoing 'debate' needs to be moved elsewhere. However, the issue of vacant property is a real one, so a regular 'expose' on various properties around the city might be appropriate. But this story is getting very old for the rest of us.
This is just one of hundreds of places in DC that we should highlight again anad again.
If the Church is breaking the law one day and it is reported, and then is notified by the government that they recognize the law is being broken and the Church has 15 days to rectify that fact, how is each day it continues to break the law in defiance of the government not news. That is like saying it is not news if DC teachers are not getting certified after being told by the government they have to get certified or get fired. If you think I am being absurd for saying you (Mike Licht) don't appreciate the importance of the issue, I disagree. That is my opinion, and you have done nothing to persuade me otherwise.
The city will move forward. They would not have issued the abatement order otherwise- it's a line in the sand and their credibility depends on their enforcing it. And Shiloh knows this, so they will attempt to fix the properties. All this is clear and predictable.
Whether Shiloh will put forth a passable good faith effort that succeeds to a minimum level and so convince the city to cut a deal (I doubt this), or whether the city pushes for real remediation is still up in the air.
I'd imagine there are some interesting discussions going on between Shiloh and the city about now.
Condemnation by neglect...by a non-taxpaying entity...property in similar condition 20 years ago.
Think what good works could have been funded if this block was assessed for property taxes for 30 years.
Folks,
Hate to disappoint you. The city is not going to do squat about Shiloh's vacant properties. The city has far more vacant properties than the churches and they sit there and rot. Shiloh is just sitting this flurry of bad publicity to go away. The city government is stuffed with Shiloh members, who can just tell the city to make it go away --- and it will. Fenty and Evans are mum. The city bureaucrats won't even talk about the condemnation when you call. So just pack up your little e-mails and put them away for another decade of church neglect of our designated historic slum.
The tone has changed here. That's good.
Nobody wants to read the type of things that were being posted here a few "Watch Days" ago. So, thank you all for lifting the level of the dialog.
It's fine to be vigilant. We expect no less from the residents and the churches in our communities.
Now,for non2happy, a bit of information:
Your hint that Shiloh may not be paying taxes on those vacant properties - even if unintended - is misleading or uninformed.
As most District property owners know, the tax premium on vacant property in DC is incredible. And, you don't get a tax break if the vacant property is owned by a church.
If I'm not mistaken, the rate is somewhere between 3-4 times the rates we pay for occupied properties.
Oh my word, Sandy Johnson I went to medical school at Johnson State University in Johnson City, Tennessee! Girl, welcome to D.C.! And I just got back from the big Memphis Bar-B-Q festival! Be very sensitive around the the other new wash-ashores 'cause they like to bully us oldtimers around.
Did you see Off Seventh's blog on the Rolls and Maybach that Shiloh and the United House of Prayer "pastors" are sporting? Check it out at offseventh dot org
SteveG: I'm sure the UHOP Maybach was not the only vehicle in the Founder's Day Parade. It usually includes church founder Daddy Grace's vintage Rolls and church busses from North Carolina, the Midwest, and NYC. The parade of brass bands and drum and bugle corps goes from the church ("God's White House") to Bishop Grace's former house on Logan Circle and back again. It's a great DC tradition, as is this weekend's softball game between teams of "Saints" (church elders).
After reading the comments posted, I must ask Sommer, what did you want to happen when you started and do you think you are going to achieve it by these means. Are you making the church accountable or publicly shaming the institution? Are you fostering community or alienating neighbors?
Perhaps you should investigate a new course of action. I think that the rehabilitation of the building is a great goal. And that the use of the building for senior house is an extremely lofty goal worth achieving. Public humiliation and criticism may foster action but at what expense! Look at these postings so many racist, homophobic, and other nasty remarks made by people who need to share a community and believe it or not have a common goal (of making Shaw a beacon for the entire city/nation). ( I don’t think any of the posters will anytime soon be willing to join together and sing “This land is your land,” or “Won't You Be My Neighbor?".) You can get more flies with honey than vinegar.
To those who believe that the church has failed on promises to build senior housing. Have you bothered to find out that the church BURNED and had to be rebuilt, a very massive project for any nonprofit institution. Unfortunately, in life set backs happen. But there is always hope. Those buildings are not lost, and neither is opportunity to building community in a changing environment.
Shiloh is drawing criticism because they are trying to dictate how they want the community to develop (or not to develop in this case). Maybe they should stick to saving souls and not accumulating property. If they can't afford to fix up what they have then sell it! Oh, I forgot, they don't want to sell to developers who would possibly could turn it into those evil high price condos or restaurants that would serve alcohol such as Queen of Sheba. Woops, silly me, Queen of Sheba across from Shiloh has not been able to serve alcohol because of the members of Shiloh passing judgement about the evils of alcohol. Funny they seem to have no problem with the liquor store directly across the corner from their church.
Rather, Shiloh has decided to leave the described properties here on this thread as dilapidated eyesores. A generation of children haved now walked by these buildings thinking that this is the "norm". To K.T., Shiloh has had plans to "rehabilitate" these properties for almost 20 years. If they want it for senior citizen housing, then great. If they don't have the money, fine, it happens to us all..just sell the property instead of sitting on it. However, it is time for something to happen. If it takes vinegar to get it done, then pour it on.
So, it seems that the issue is trying to get Shiloh to do something in this matter...
well, since nobody here has declared interests in buying the properties themselves, but instead would like the properties simply renovated, why don't these same people contact the church and see if and how they could assist them in meeting this community goal.
No? Instead you'd rather not help the solution by sitting in your “me-for-me” world bashing the Church for its appeared in-action, religious views, and demographics - get off it, it is plain and simple to see the caustic bias undertones of this entire series. But, do you know what the story is in the church? I thought so. And it appears that when anyone with a cogent response to the opposition here is made on behalf of the church, rhetorical and banal comments are flung up in response with the occasional brutish unnecessary replies (where is DCIST HEATHER with her censor button when you need her, unless calling someone a Douche is in comport with the DCist arbitrary TOS)...a la Borat, "this is productive discourse, NAAAAAAHT". Just imagine if so much "vinegar" was applied to more serious issues, things such as poverty, crime, health care, and education would not be such a dismal issue locally, nationally, internationally; but unfortunately we only have people (a bunch of self-fulfilled -POMPOUS - Davids looking for a perceived Goliath, because they are just that "great" and their self-esteem needs this) carrying selfish agendas here with no greater fortune to be had than their own property values... this is just ugly.
Unfortunately, this has been more than an examination of Sommer’s little thorn in her side, but more so a display of ignorance on many fronts...
And Sommer, when the city doesn't do anything (which some speculate it won't - politics suck don't they), what will you do then, post daily pictures of the District Governing Board doing everything else but this?
It would be nice if you gave DCist back to DC, you are not the celebrity to have people suffer your tantrums everyday.
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Da da da "tonight at 11, why MY neighbours and neighbourhood persist on throwing parties every night yielding me little sleep" ... it couldn't have anything to do with the proximity to which i live from the bars of Adams Morgan could it?...silliness.
A little more cooperation and a little less indignant entitlement from all sides, please. There is (or should be) lots of room for advancement of common interests in this.
Tell ya what, PU/SU, when you can convince Shiloh to sell the properties, one of us will jump at the chance to buy them.
For someone who likes to accuse others of not knowing "what the story is in the church", you sure are ignorant of the games the church is playing.
Robis...STFU...you missed the entire point of my post!!! But, i suspect you have biased agenda here...ANYWAY
Sommer:
Only thing to happen to the Shiloh properties this Memorial Day (or Founder's Day -- if you're a UHOP-per) weekend is to sport new gang tags and hippity-hop postahs.
The city ain't gonna do nuffin' 'bout them properties 'cuz we a historic slum and Shiloh means to keep it that way.
This is just sad.
I received a call moments ago informing me that at about 8:30PM tonight, two young white men were seen on a ladder, attempting to enter one of those Shiloh properties.
When they realized they were about to be cought, they ran.
Sad,... cowardly too.
At best, you were trespassing. It's private property. You know the owner. You know how to contact them.
I don't even want to speculate about the worst.
Please, help me to understand why you were back there. Why did you run?
You know, that's the type of behavior we have sadly come to expect - and loathe - about the young druggies and dealers who hang aroung our alleys and in the shadows, disrespecting our properties and our homes.
I expected better than that from the two of you.
PUBLIC OVERSIGHT HEARING
Vacant and Nuisance Property Administration and Enforcement
Monday, July 2, 2007
10:00 A.M.
Council Chamber, 5th Floor
1350 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Visit marycheh.com for information on submitting written comments/testimony in lieu of testifying at the hearing.