ok, i'll bite, i imagine the posts to go something like this...

"Damn Black People"

"Damn Gay People"

"Can't we all just get along"

"Damn White people"

"Mike Licht sounds like..."

... *sigh* at least controversy keeps your ad revenue up guys, get those hits baby...

First off, I don't see the reason why this person is basically labelled racist by saying that black neighbors are acting in a certain way toward them. Should he have said "some black neighbors", to therefore limit the generalization? Seems a little ticky-tack to scold the victim for that. He obviously feels hatred coming from a certain set of neighbors. Why can't he say which ones?

Second, this just goes to show that CH has a long way to go. There is a lot of crime that still happens, despite all the new development and influx of residents. Packs of unsupervised kids run around all the time, yelling, throwing trash all around, etc etc. Some say that this is just a matter of time until rising property values (and taxes) force out lower income folks (which one would assume includes the kids that like punching random pedestrians). Maybe it is, but something should still be done about it now. I personally have seen more police presence in the past week or two - hopefully this keeps up.

I have no experience with this; the kids in my neighborhood don't fuck with me at all, ever. I have a few things working in my favor:

1. I'm Black
2. I'm big (6'3", 275)
3. I've been living in the same area long enough that the kids who are now teenagers have been seeing me since they were small children.

I think #3 is the long pole in the tent.

Apparently they are putting in a police "sub-station" in the upper area of Meridian Hill Park, near the east entrance across from Chapin St. But this is one location, three blocks from the main station near 16th and V, in the lower outskirts of CH, and probably won't help much except keep the mostly safe park slightly safer.

I used to live on Fairmont and University. I had one roommate (rather flamboyantly gay) attacked by a large group of neighborhood yute on our doorstep.

I live around the corner now. The other day a group of four yute were trying to break into the Butler house . . . in broad daylight, whilst throwing rocks at the cars parked in the parking lot of our building. Called police, but they were gone by the time they got there.

Not sure if these were kids from the same group or not.

This is an old and very sad topic. I don't have the heart for it.

I've pulled unsupervised children out of a burning house, fixed broken bicycles, helped organize and served at neighborhood cookouts, paid local kids to cut grass and water street trees, patched bullet holes and cleaned "RIP" graffiti at an elementary school, ad hoc babysat, woven daisy-chains for the little girls, and opened my son's kiddie pool to neighborhood kids.

I've also directly intervened in inter-racial and same-race violence, called MPD hundreds of times, cleaned parks and vacant lots of drug residue, and gotten involved with CFS and DCHA and the DCAG.

Pointing fingers only takes the conversation so far. My advice, for better or worse, is to be part of the neighborhood in all facets.

nice points Mark. well said.

"There's a lot going on in this letter, to be sure. Assault, racial tension, gentrification, unsupervised children, and if you tend to read the word "partner" and assume we're probably talking about a gay couple, then add a potential hate crime element into the mix."

Would it not be a hate crime if the kids attacked them merely because they're white?

last week I had a conversation with my babysitter as I drove her home to her parent's house in Columbia Heights...

she is spiteful about how the new comers to the neighborhood are forcing her friends to move away

it was a long difficult conversation...

the words gentrification came up

but I think neighborhood evolution is more accurate

gwadzilla.blogspot.com

I'm just amazed at the number of people who move into neighborhoods like Columbia Heights and then are shocked- SHOCKED!- at the reception they get from the "black neighbors who have lived there a while."

Don't get me wrong- I'd like to see those kids punished for the assault.

But give me a break. I mean, I tend not to buy condos in neighborhoods I'm not familiar with. That would make me a big giant moron.

So it's hard to sympathize. The author of the letter doesn't seem capable of considering WHY his black neighbors might harbor some animosity towards them.
I'll give you a hint, buddy- some long-term neighbors of theirs were likely forced from their home to make room for your fabulous condo. That's why. How would you feel?

CH_resident, I find your attitude even more disgusting than the letter-writer's. Your sense of entitlement astounds me.
That neighborhood was what it was long before you got there; if you didn't like the neighborhood you should have stayed the hell away from it. You don't get to move in and then complain about the way it was before you arrived.
And the fact that you're not only okay with, but anxious to see people forced from their own neighborhoods so that the crime won't be in your backyard anymore is appalling. Just move to Vienna and complain about, I dunno, the neighbor's tree being too close to your property line.

What I worry about is the day these kids mess with the wrong person, who ends up seriously hurting them. I know personally, I tell myself that if I am attacked, and it looks like I can retaliate successfully (i.e. me against a couple small kids), then I will do it, but then again, who knows how one will react in the moment. But I can see myself seriously hurting a kid who comes up to me and tried to hurt me for no reason. I refuse to be scared in my own neighborhood.

I truly believe that until we get tough on minors in the criminal justice system, that the enforcement aspect of these kinds of crimes is meaningless. The current laws basically lead you to the conclusion that minors can get away with pretty much anything, because they're 'learning' how to live life. What could be more educational than a day in a youth detention facility? Repeeat offenders get months, years, etc. Parents should also be held accountable when children cannot be. Who else, after all, is responsible for teaching their children what is right, and what is wrong. I'm sick of excuses.

Not that you care, but let's see if we can shed a little light on the situation…
Now this isn’t an end all be all, as I am sure this is just the tip of the iceberg.

1st let me say, i don't condone any violence or assualts upon anyone and bad behaviour permeates race and class...

FYI, you ask an upwardly mobile black family what it is like to move into that posh gated community and i guarantee you, they will disclose, "racist assaults are alive and well there too..." i.e., this ain't a one way street.

I live in an expensive apt, and have been for several years now...how do you think i feel, when cops harass me for loitering on my own steps, or my white neighbours constantly confuse me for the only other black person that lives in the building (despite the obvious complexion and height difference)

O.K., ready?

Black perspective: Impoverished, disenfranchised, under-educated, poor health care options, criminal environment...nobody has given a rats ass about this city for the past 40 years. My family and friends, who have been stuck here, have now created a home and community, which we love. Three generations of my family have lived and died in this city. Whenever my friends and I go to Gtown or outside of the district (MD/NOVA), we get harassed, pulled over, racially profiled, and encounter bigoted white people. We only know the bigots, because they always make themselves known to us. Now my family and friends are being FORCED OUT, by twenty something latte sipping flip flop wearing whites, who although are not overtly racist to me, are completely oblivious and careless of me and my community (which have been here longer than you will probably stay in this city). These same white people move into my neighbourhood, but don't respect me, speak to me, or look at me when they approach me on the street. They still look down upon us as second class citizens, even now in the sanctuary of my own block. We pass each other in the grocery every week, and the quite obvious "I’m white and not comfortable with you black people" aura is still dripping all over you. I might throw out a "hello" just to see if you respond...you don't. You listen to rap, hip hop, house, jazz, blues, etc... but fake on the diversity front. When another white household moves onto the block, I see you inviting them over, engaging with them...where and when did you think to not engage us with the same neighbourly fashion, or are we not worthy in your eyes? I get it, you two are in "this" together. You have options to you that I can't even fathom, at 28 you are already more wealthy than my entire family, and somehow you still think this is a just and fair society. Gentrification is segregation. You are ignorant

White Perspective: I'm not racist, it is economics. Man, I didn't know d.c. was a denizen of black folks, no wonder I got this property cheap. I know black people, but these aren't like the ones from the upper middle class community I am from, so it is ok to ignore and belittle them. I am hip to their culture, I’ve got the cd collection to prove it. I didn't own slaves, nor do I believe there is a fallout from the segregated history of this country, and I am completely not interested in their issues, after all I have trees to save. Black people are scary. Now that this is MY HOME, I am going to make some changes to the community to suit myself, fuck the looooong history of the demographics, shops, churches, restaurants, barbers, establishments, etc,... that were here before me. If they can't afford to be my neighbours fuck em. These people have every opportunity in the world to be more like me...THEY CHOOSE NOT TO BE, fuck em. In fact sometimes, it pisses me off that they scold the opportunity to be more like me. Gentrification is not a bad word. Racism is dead. You are ignorant.

Mix the above in a stew of heat, humidity, and general DC bullshit...simmer and what do you get...

Also, a caveat: If you move into a God forsaken ghetto, don't be surprised when ghetto shit happens to you...and before we get the Gay Brigade involved, you should know that D.C. has one of the largest populations gay blacks (at least that i have ever encountered from my jaunts around the world)...heck, Gay Black Pride is being held here all next week or something...

Finally, it should be noted, that these are apparently kids, not all Blacks in general. Believe it or not, most blacks have the where with all and maturity to not behave in such behavior.....oh, you got it, their black parents are telling them to haze the white folk. Brilliant.

Kids are shit and scum, no matter what color their skin is.

I'd recommend getting a big fucking dog, it works pretty well for me.

JM!

Now you're talking.

Buy a goddamn knife people. A big ass one.

In the 2 years I have lived in DC (Shaw) I have experianced reverse discrimination 3 times by an African America - one lady even called me "the white devil" because I asked her politely to move her car from blocking my car in. I was parked in my legal spot from the alley, she was parking IN the alley. The one that scares me the most is when there was a serious car crash and a group of African Americans ran over to the cars all excited about it - not one person calling 911 - yelling "cracker down", and "whitey hurt". After I got off the phone with 911 I said to the adults in the group how appaulled I was and promptly told to shut the f up.

Bottom line, DC is dangerous for white people. Living here has made me reverse my point of view - I now see things more like my grand-parents, meaning maybe segragation is better. I'm leaving as soon as I can (need to do some work to get house on the market).

I am a twenty-something white male who moved to Shaw about two years ago from the west coast to go to graduate school in Washington (i.e., I'm the kind of person who I think Rich Black Kid and oblivious are taking about).

Why did I move to DC and in particular to Shaw? It's simple, really: it's an area of the city where I could afford to rent an apartment while still being fairly close to my school. I wanted to live and go to school in close proximity so I didn't have to deal with long commutes and feeling like a permanent stranger in one or both communities (I would be out of place either at home or school). Frankly, there are not very many places in this city where I could afford to rent an apartment, feel safe in my neighborhood, and be close to school. Shaw was one of those places.

I get very frustrated when people who have lived in the neighborhood for longer than I have tell me that I am not allowed to voice opinions about the neighborhood or in any way change the feel of the neighborhood because I'm not from here (and for that matter because in all likelihood, I won't stay here after I graduate in a few more years). I am every bit as much of a resident of this community as a person who has lived here their whole life. I am not more valuable to the community than that person, but neither am I less valuable. I believe that I contribute in a positive way to the area--I patronize area businesses (some that have been here for decades and some that have been here for weeks). I say hello to people walking down the street (and get a lot of people looking at me like I'm crazy--I guess greeting people is a west coast thing, but that's another blog...).

Over and over again, people like me are decried as "newcomers" by people who have lived here for a long time. It's seen as a terrible insult by the people who use the term, but I have a hard time seeing why. Yes, I am a newcomer, but if I'm willing to contribute my energy, talents, any money to the neighborhood, why is my contribution any less valuable than a person who has lived here for thirty years? If I have ideas about how to make my neighborhood a better place, even if it will change some aspect of the neighborhood, why should my position be rejected out of hand? "Newcomers" can bring new ideas and new solutions to problems that exist in the neighborhood.

Neighborhoods change. It happens everywhere. In Los Angeles, where I lived before moving here, areas of the city that have been known as black areas of the city have lately become home to many Latinos. A lot of the same tensions that I find here also exist there, even though the groups involved are different.

I believe that if we tell people that all neighborhoods must forever stay the way they are, we will ultimately end up hurting everyone. Few people would argue that most of Washington (and most other American cities) are de facto segregated. In Washington, white people live in northwest and black people live in southeast, or at least that's the common perception. The only way we'll ever change that is if white people move into historically black neighborhoods and black people move into historically white neighborhoods with none of the "it has to stay this way" attitude.

In Washington, white people who live in northwest and do not want black people to move in are shunned as racists, yet oftentimes, black people who live in other parts of the city and don't want white people to move in are given a free pass. I do not see why a distinction should be made.

Shaw is an area that has a racial make up (and largely, a socioeconomic make up) that is fairly reflective of Washington as a whole. It is a great opportunity to show other areas of the city that people from a variety of backgrounds can live together in harmony. That means that white people would have to accept that Shaw will never be Loudoun county with box stores and chain restaurants, and black people would have to accept that opening up restaurants or stores that are owned by or patronized by white people does not make their contribution to the neighborhood any less valuable. If it's not possible to live together with some give and take, it makes me very pessimistic about the future of race relations in this country.

RBK - Wow! Your post read more like poetry than anything else; textured, vibrant, and real.

Bravo, I look forward to hearing from you again.

As usual, monkeyerotica brings sense and actual information to the issue. It's shocking how some people here are willing to ignore the simple fact that the safety and welfare of law-abiding citizens is being threatened by unsupervised teenagers.

This is indeed classic Clifton Street/Terrace behavior, with some of the kids graduating from their little juvenile pseudo-gangs up to more real crap connected to the Euclid drug mart and other venues of higher education. But this assault crap barely rates above quality of life issues, and the cops could make those blocks safe in three weeks, if they would just patrol seriously. This isn't an organized economic situation where the crime would move elsewhere.

And lest the above silly commenters insist on painting this as some sort of old/new or gentrifier/non-gentrifier battle, let me point out that, as is all too often the case, the behavior of the delinquints has the largest effect on other kids in the neighborhood, who have to try to grow up straight in a nasty culture where those who succeed are pegged as failures. It's the same problem that you see constantly in failing schools--20% of the children prevent the other 80% from learning, and in the end, the decent teenagers (a group including, no doubt, certain of the current delinquints) that bear the brunt of the culture. So why not clean up the block and establish rule of law, even if you can't create respect for it?

By the way, the notion that the Boy & Girls Club can somehow solve this is silly. All those kids already use the club, and the kids nonetheless are what they are. You can't solve their problems with municipal program, but in this limited case, you just might be able to end the silly crimes going on in this area.

I'm probably oversimplifying, but I really do think that this limited problem (in the area right around Clifton St.) can be solved. It's probably like thirty teenagers, at most, causing all this trouble, if that. Whether it's worth dedicating the resources is, I suppose a close question, but all the comments here suggest that it's worth the effort.

Um, Clifton, read much? From where in my post do you derive that i would think you racist or anything for living where you want to live and or speaking up about issues affecting you? If you care to re-read my post, it clearly states what some of the sentiments are behind the disconnect of WHITES and BLACKS in the city.
I never once suggested that someone move or not move...except in the instance where they move into a Ghetto...now if you chose to move into a ghetto (even i, as a black male would not move into a ghetto) and ghetto shit happens to you, don't be surprised. But please, i encourage you to re-read my post before you attempt to reply and falsely characterize me more.

If anything, i suggested we take time out and try to appreciate this issue from all sides exposing the ignorance on both sides...are you game, or are you going to bark some more up the wrong tree?

And i know i am dealing with an idiot in you, because i said i don't condone violence, assaults, or the beatings of anyone...don't get salty at me, because i sound reasonable to you and you don't know how to get along in your community.

Basically, like i said, your response is not in comport with the language of my post. Sorry, better luck next time.

Redneck: "I don't condone segregated schools, but ..."

Chauvinist: "I don't condone rape, but ..."

RBK: "I don't condone violence against white people who move into Columbia Heights, but ..."

All of you who think this is a gentrification issue solely should read the crime report Saturday and Sunday morning. I can guarantee you there will be some black kids and elders getting shot by other black kids and elders. This environment doesn't turn on and off in accordance to race. One of the saddest reports I ever read was a charitable black veteran killed by another black man he befriended from work and even gave shoes to. That's not a community folks. And to "oblivious" who says people shouldn't move in somewhere they don't know anything about, welcome to America son--where are you from? And another thing, if it's not a condo you want, maybe a baseball field or office conglomeration with security, cameras and gates will fit better because that land is valuable and will be bought and sold. I don't like it because I can't afford it either. And to my white neighbors who have youth with guns running through their yards shooting at one another, it's alright. That's community--don't interfere because you obviously wouldn't understand. And another thing, I agree with you Rick Black Kid. There's a lot of rich white people I can't stand. There's some kind of pecking order. If you weren't there, it would fall onto someone else in the building of either different economics or orientation but race doesn't always play a role. For some reason people do this. I don't know why but if you make a lot of money and have some time, it's important for others to know this, acknowledge it or what's the point? There are video's that show this almost exclusively--it's called rap. My mom used to get it pecked at the country club she worked. It would be nice if people can get along but I don't have high expectations from a society that throws rocks for fun and shoots to resolve differences. And by society, I mean everyone. Mark, you're right on but if you think that ignorance will leave you alone because you perform community service, you're wrong. It helps and is a necessity or you don't exist. But by definition of victim, the recipient never saw it coming unless you're Jesus or trying to be.

I think we should just outlaw rocks from DC. I am not racist but I think rocks are the real problem here.

I apologize RBK. By "ghetto" you clearly meant Georgetown, not Columbia Heights which is the neighborhood this posting referred to. My bad, dude, my bad. Again, you win.

I read RBK's "blakc perspective" and thought "well, this is interesting, maybe this guy really gets all facets of the situation here."

Then I read his "white perspective" and realized he didn't have much interesting to say at all.

I live around 13th and Clifton. I'm white, I'm constantly walking around, and while I wouldn't call the neighborhood "safe," I also don't get harassed for my race. I'm female, and I've been bothered a few times for wearing certain clothes, but I've seen black women harassed for that, too. I feel like most of the posts make it sound like you can't walk down the street if you're white and not get things thrown at you -- which hasn't been my experience. I also have several friends who are not only white, but also butch/trans, and who spend time in the neighborhood, and I don't believe they've been bothered, either.

I am stunned. This is yet another post on DCist about "Black kids gone wild" and what the bulk of these comments end up being about is how racist one Black poster is. Fucking unreal!

Mix the above in a stew of heat, humidity, and general DC bullshit...simmer and what do you get...

A comment thread on DCist?

I don't know, RBK's "white perspective" sounded a lot like many of the comments on this site.

I don't think there's one white perspective or one black perspective, but I wouldn't say his post mischaracterized the dominant viewpoints in these debates either, at least based on what's happening on the blogs & message boards.

Another rebuke on RBKs racism:

I knew there were lots of black people in DC when I moved here with my fiance...no big deal, we're all people.

I do not ignore nor belittle anyone.

I don't claim to be hip to anyone's culture, regardless of my supposed CD collection.

So there weren't very many black people people from my high school or college...so what.

Of course there is/was a fallout from segregation, and I understand the limited choices less fortunate people of all races have in this world.

Black people are not scary.

I love DCs looooooooooong history of black culture, if I wanted to live in a lame-ass white culture I'd have stayed in PA.

Gentrification is a bad word and racism is alive and well, you helped bring it back a little. You are ignorant.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. would frown if he read your first post.

Actually, I wouldn't characterize RBK's post as racist. While his portrayal of the "white perspective" is kind of flippant and sarcastic, I have to say that, even as a white guy myself, I find the attitude of a LARGE segment of the white DC population to be so self-absorbed and arrogant that it's mindboggling. (Yes, rich dad in absurdly expensive Italian spandex bike clothes who almost mowed me down on the sidewalk yesterday while riding a tandem with little Madison, I'm talking about YOU.)

The issue here isn't about whose community is the most historically aggrieved. Everyone's pissed off - just be pissed off quietly and get on with your lives. The point is that random, violent assaults are being committed with crippling frequency in certain parts of DC, and neither the community itself nor the police seem able/willing to prevent that.

does anyone here work?

I know, let's all claw our eyes out and then we really truly won't see race (bonus-less likely to actually hit someone with rock, egg, etc.) I know that's what I'm about to do, after reading this ongoing nonesense. It's called white privlege, people,wake up. Until all of us whities, whether we're honky crackers or well-meaning liberals, confront the reality of WP, we're gonna get hit by rocks, kicked in the groin, have our feelings hurt by graffitti. None of those are nice things to do someone. Neither is being so entitled that you can't even begin to address the CORE problem going on here. It's super complicated and even if you don't feel you are racist, even if you pat yourself on the back for moving into an "edgy" neighborhood with every intention of being a good neighbor, this cycle isn't gonna change without us white folk facing up. In a world of unearned privilege, the biggest privilege is to admit we've got it, but then to ignore what it means. In this case part of what it means the MAN can control the system but he CANNOT control how his neighbors feel about him moving in next door. Boo hoo. All white people have an obligation to understand the legacy of slavery and economic oppression that damages society to this day. Those are the rocks we throw, and we've been throwing them for years.

It’s crazy but you have to understand that ever since I was little (which is twenty-something) the city of D.C. has been majority black and for “newcomers”(whites) to come into the city and try to make changes to their liking is uncalled for. How many of the “newcomers” know the history in the streets of D.C.? For example such as the riots that have happen, the murders and basically the culture with Go-Go music and urban clothing line. All these things have been molded by blacks that have lived in D.C. for many years. And with rising housing prices, it’s pushing blacks out of the community and in to other parts of Maryland and more whites are moving into the community of D.C. because they can afford the housing prices. Which brings new ideas and new solutions to problems that exist in the neighborhoods, but people who lived their before the whites moved in have been complaining for years and nothing has change. So for someone who has never lived in that community, come into the neighborhood demanding changes and accomplishing them is like a slap in the face. So, it’s more of what’s being lost rather than gaining that has me a little disturbed.

For what it's worth, last thurs 5/24 @ 930PM I was riding my scooter north on 15th, by the park and just south of Euclid. 3 or 4 young black males assaulted me while I was trying to ride by. One played chicken with me to slow me down, then grabbed my arm while someone I didnt see hit me on the head from behind. I managed a serious kick in the balls to the first one as I got away. I kept thinking they were really lucky I wasnt someone willing and able to kill them. One of them is injured. But they could have killed me. I'll ride with a U-lock ready from now on.

I work in online publishing, it's a slow day. Besides it doesn't take all day to sift through this bullplop.

I agree w/Dr. Racism. Let's use this forum as a way to brainstorm on what we can do as community members to address the teen gang issues that are going on and to better understand the racial/socioeconomic/political tensions that are underlying it.

There's a lot of entitlement from all sides of the coin when in comes to "gentrification" - but lets keep in mind that neither side's right to a good, safe, affordable, convenient place to live is greater than the others'.

When a neighborhood is a community, neighbors look out for one another. That doesn't eliminate all crime, but it does help to prevent some and prevent escalation. So instead of sniping, let's bring this forum back to a positive discussion on how to help our tense, mixed neighborhood communities adjust to the changes w/in them in an inclusive way.

If these were skinheads throwing rocks at black people what the reaction be?

YOU PEOPLE ARE INSANE. When people get physically assaulted, we should protect them. All the navel-gazing and historical blaming beyond that simple point is bullshit. I might put up with it if people were developing concrete solutions, but instead it's all the usual nonspecific, apologist crap. You're doing nothing but propagating a situation where children's lives are wasted and innocent people get hurt.

I'm back off DCist. See you all in a few months. Sensible people, hold down the fort. More power to you.

Sorry TMS(acronym?), I just like to type fast and get my thoughts out there before the topic changes and I look like the guy who is talking about 5 minutes ago. Now spell out your goddamn name before I kill you.

I am black. I don't think you can talk in absolutes in the social sciences. No rational person would say "all blacks this", "all women that", "all whites etc"..but the common sense conventional generalizations about black inner city teenagers are ignored at your own peril. The types of people that "gentrify" are not the heartland blue collars and farmers. They are usually the most genteel, non-aggressive effetes of society, interfacing with the most aggressive NON-rational types of society. Watch the sparks fly.

to Kai--interesting how you bring up "culture" and murder and riots all in one sentence. Since when is murder, and random violence "culture" ?
What the hell is wrong with moving in and demanding more police patrols? And yeah, I live on fairmont, I live in "workforce" housing and we we are ready to sue Faircliff apts where this happened. They have non-stop trouble there. I would like to say the parents are busy at work but in fact, I see plenty of adults sitting around in the parking lot watching, but not giving a shit, what the kids do. But maybe I am most pissed off at the rich white woman who owns that apartment complex and probably lives in Bethesda. I'll restrain myself here and not publish her name, email and phone number.

Sounds like a bunch of elitists are upset that the gates of the country club are now open to all.

I wanted to share some of my thoughts on why there is so much animosity from blacks towards whites in DC. I am a middle class Black man. I was born in the District and have lived here my whole life except when I left to go to college. However, no matter how long I've been here, no matter how many degrees I have or how "well-spoken" I am, I am still treated like an outsider and second-class citizen by Whites and others living in this city. When people consistantly refuse to treat you as a human being on their same level, it will result in animosity.

RBK "moving of a black family because they can no longer afford the taxes and there upon a white family moving in as displacement..."

I am so tired of hearing about people getting displaced while they just walked away with half a mill for some run down house that needs another half mill to bring it to modern standards ... Cry me a river all the way to the bank!!

Not the Red Baron--That's BS!! Form there you make the leap to justifying ROCK THROWING! As if these hooligans were otherwise rational people...

"When people consistantly refuse to treat you as a human being on their same level, it will result in animosity."

As opposed to having kids that punch you in the junk and laugh about it. That breeds sheer joy.

"When people consistantly refuse to treat you as a human being on their same level, it will result in animosity."

Is animosity ending in violence really so predictable? I've been run off the road numerous times by cars while riding my bike, but I've never thrown rocks or a u lock at a car.

c'mon 100 posts!

seriously though, i don't know that i can add much to this other than to say i'm white, i've lived on u street, in logan, and in bloomingdale. i read the crime reports, and i know where the hotspots are (15th to 13th, clifton up to columbia, can be a land-mine strewn area). it's interesting to watch as some of the hotspots cool down and other ones heat up.

i've never been personally physically assaulted, and i don't live in fear of that in my travels all over the 3rd PD. i have had a former house broken into though, so that's my experience with crime in DC. in the end, i try to say hello and talk to neighbors, whether they're black or white, gay or straight (and THANK GOD that everyone fits into those frames, otherwise i'd get confused). some people are friendly, others are not. i've only been called the equivalent of white devil once, so i guess i'm doing pretty good on that front.

Am I poster 100?

dang it..I missed being 100 :(..Anyway, Ryan, you are in denial. Many of these teenagers use race to justify aggressive behaviour.

It's interesting to me as someone who has lived in Columbia Heights for 5 years that everyone in this whole lists is acting like there are just black and white people in the neighborhood. No one mentions that there are a ton of Latino/as who are here too. Some are victims of crime by African Americans too. Are they responsible? When a Latino family buys a house and displaces a black family is that bad? Or not as bad? Or worse? It's interesting to me because by throwing in a third community into discussions it makes the whole black/white and race/class discussion much harder to have, right? So, we'll just pretend that there aren't Latinos here. Or that there is also a Latino gang problem that doesn't get mentioned at all either. Hmmm..

Also, what I find interesting in my street in Columbia Heights, the African American families that have sold their houses didn't do so because they couldn't afford the costs anymore, they sold their houses because the were really old. They then moved out to PG county where all of their kids are. The middle class African American kids of the middle class African American parents who made up Columbia Heights for the past 60 years don't want to live here.

I, however, do want to live here. And know all of these facts above because I talk to all of my neighbors--black, white and hispanic.

chris lee: in dc just about everything is excused by bringing in race ... crime-parking and everything in between

No denial here. The little rock-throwing kids (think eight year-olds) I've encountered don't care for race. They're just looking for laughs. Plus, we're ignoring the fact that many of the rock-throwing incidents involve black people throwing rocks at other black people or throwing rocks at properties owned or inhabited by black people.

Chris Lee: I have the most boring wardrobe imaginable. Khakis and button-down shirts.

Not the red baron:

Statistically speaking, who's most likely to commit a crime in a Georgetown antique shop?

Assuming you're a law abiding citizen, you should be mad at people of your fellow race for creating those stereotypes. Kind of like how all muslims are perceived as terrorists or white country folks molest children.

Stereotypes exist for a reason. Instead of getting mad at people who play the odds, get mad at people who create those odds.

2-5. If you are as degreed as you say, I'd have to investigate. Out of curiosity do you walk around town "thugged out" or dressed in Lacoste Tshirt with Calvin Klein penny loafers?

Chris Lee - What difference does it make how he's dressed? This kind of shit happens no matter how you dress. I can tell you from my own experience I can be suited up and still have a waitress treat me like garbage because she assumes Black people don't tip.

Thankfully the one problem on the list I don't have is my White neighbors not speaking to me, all the folks on my block are pretty cool and pretty cool with each other regardless of race.

nottheredbaron- I am no apologist for the condition we live in in a post colonial society. It doesn't surprise me that ANY black man encounters some bias. But I would think that any rational person can process somebody being a jerk and ignoring them in a department store, or mistaking you for a bell-hop. There ARE a**holes in this world. Did it motivate you to go outside and through a rock at some white girl or did you tell the offender off?

I live in Columbia Heights, and haven't been subjected to anything scary. I make an effort to befriend the neighbor kids though and smile genuinely. I actually love where I live because I LOVE my neighbors.

some kids did, however, throw a big bucket of paint on my (african american) landlord's car because he wouldn't let them use his kids' basketball goal. they kept destroying the fence when they would use it. ruined his paint job. sucks.

just jerk kids with not enough to do.

Columbia Heights is an area with a lot of contrast between subsidized public housing and "urban lofts with flair." I do agree with several things stated thus far-

1). There should be serious thought given to creating actual criminal consequences/penalties for crime. Assault with a deadly weapon (brick) does not merit a "do-over." People who own or rent in DC and pay for these kids' education and rec centers via direct or indirect property taxes should not have to be assualted by these kids. That said, prison or juvie isn't exactly going to sweeten the temperment of a kid and set them in with the right crowd.

2). The racist and homophobic aspects of the various incidents should not be brushed away. That said, these are all acts of teens, and many, if not most, teenagers are a$^&%oles, regardless of race or socioeconomic status. That's their job, and I challenge you to find a high school that doesn't have a clique of degenerate little jerks who antagonize people on the basis of the music they like, their sexual preference, or just cause they feel like it. These same kids nonetheless often turn out to be productive members of society in their later years. DC is no exception.

To wit: a pack of rich white kids in Arlington threw a firecracker at the open window of my car the other day while I was in it. Little bastards. Not as bad as a brick to the head, but the Arlington kids have more to lose. They've got their lacrosse scholarship or whatever and all those years of SAT tutoring to think of.

My two cents is that it is better to address the roots of the problem than to worry about catching people and grinding them through the criminal justice system. If you think of jail as a trade school/finishing school/networking opportunity, you'll get where I'm coming from.

There's a report on the MPD website on combating latino gang activity in Columbia Heights which addresses youth crime generally. The authors interviewed a lot of parents and youth in the area and gentrification concerns are discussed.

In addressing the gang problem, the report noted that many kids felt that crews are more common than gangs...just packs of friends who wander around and either paint tags or wander around looking for trouble. The report is about a year old, and was done for DC by a youth policy group from Michigan, but they did their homework and it seems relevant.

I like the following excerpt, which discusses how finding things for kids to do is part of the solution (jobs or rec centers):

"Youth also felt additional options were merited, especially for older youth (specifically those between the ages of 15 and 18). The following comments exemplify some of the strategies and desired alternatives as expressed by youth and parents:

Get younger people to join activities, summer school, work, not hang around in the streets. (male youth)

Build a big rec center where they [community youth] can all fit. Include basketball courts, weight rooms, gym. Things where everyone can fit in. Computer rooms, art rooms, tutoring. All that stuff. (male youth)

More recreation programs. (female youth)

More programs created for after school and weekend to engage them. (parent)

Educational activities about drugs, more help for youth who come to the US/DC. (parent)

Programs that keep them involved rather than watching television. (parent)

Jobs. Even if part time, it’s better than leaving them under-supervised or free. (parent)"

My dry cleaner echoed these sentiments as I was relating the tale of how I received raw egg all over my suit jacket. The common sense theory seems to be that kids don't have many productive ways to spend their time.

Touche, although...

Just cause you have a white girlfriend doesn't mean you aren't racist, it just means you get along with one white person really well.

I'll put down my "MLK" card if you put down your "not racist cause I date a white girl" card.

Will do...

#117, since nobody else has...

Latino gangs are apparently an issue, but if you're not latino, you generally don't have to worry about it.

For the most part, they have a good work ethic, and it pays off. They're strivers, they wouldn't have come here if they weren't, so even though it sucks, they're realists and they work within the system rather than complaining.

Seriously, "Illogical", you're going to bring up the "right to bear arms" as the solution to this problem? Not to sound like a naive little liberal, but maybe if we figured out what the root problems were, we wouldn't have to shoot each other. Oh and don't forget, if you have the right to own a gun in DC, so do all the thugs. Maybe you'll just shoot each other into oblivion and the rest of us can duck out of the way.

Illogical, if you think shooting a kid is going to make your problem go away, you're in trouble bro. Some of the kids will shoot back, no problem.

Last thing we need is race war. No, the real problem isn't adults causing violence, its these minors that know they aren't going to suffer any serious repercussions if they get caught causing trouble.

The only way past this is allow lawsuits to go after these guardians and parents.

When it comes to kids, if you can't control them, you shouldn't have 'em.

There is a town in Georgia... Kennesaw is the name. Crime isn't a problem there--even being so close to the ATL.

Read this article from

And there are bad ass kids in Frederick, MD, Fredericksburg, VA, Prince Frederick, MD, and Fredericktown, OH, too... you just don't hear much about it.

I grew up in PG (Upper Marlboro), got bused to Oxon Hill High and (as a white) got occasionally punched/mugged/etc by the majority black student body. Fine. As my childhood neighborhood grew increasingly black over the last two decades rapes started to happen, murders started to happen, and I got mugged in a neighborhood I lived in for 20 years and never heard of anyone getting mugged in. My parents moved to Baltimore (of all places) to get away. Now I live in Capitol Hill and I'm called a pilgrim. I've been mugged at gunpoint by three 14 year olds (all caught an hour later) with a gun who stole my cell phone and then used it to call their friends - and my cell phone bill a month later showed after a little investigative work that their friends all live a few blocks from me. I went to the houses, talked to the parents, and got laughed at. Chalk it up to 'reaction to gentrification' if you'd like, but I see out of control kids and a black community that feels their actions are halfway justified.

And by the way, wasn't Capitol Hill a working class white community a few decades back?

I think we're very clear about the premise. There is no reason to say you wish you could legally carry a gun in the city, as deterrence, if you are not considering or be willing to shoot a juvenile in self-defense to begin with.

They won't mess with you, if they think you are likely to shoot them, that implies you'd have be ready and capable of doing that.

And what I am saying, is that even if you did shoot someone in self-defense, your problems wouldn't go away, they'd come after you.

Situation has to be handled aggressively by the Council, we are protecting these children and their parents too much for their crimes.

I think a child crosses the line when they commit violent crime. They need to be tried as adults or they their parents to answer for their children's actions. There should not be any middle ground or grey areas when it comes to dealing with violent crime.

Gentrification is the only real solution. Free market removal of violent, anti-social, non-productive, illiterates and replacement with the representatives of american normalcy and civility.

Hill Rat:

It does matter how you dress and how you present yourself.

If people present themselves as part of a thug culture, with the droopy drawers, the bling, etc., then they should expect to be treated as part of the thug culture, which glorifies violence, theft, etc.

That's not to say dressing well means happiness all around. I'm sure you as a black man will often be treated differently than I, a white man, will be, even if we're both sporting sharp suits or whatnot.

Of course, that cuts both ways. You'll get much better treatment from a lot of blacks, and I'll get much better treatment from a lot of whites.

Guys, I'm going through and deleting a lot of comments that are grossly offensive and/or contain threats. If the conversation in here doesn't continue in a civil manner, I'm going to shut them down.

The streets of Bethesda are safe bc of a hydrogenated oil ban? Whatever man, shit is real here. I was walking home late Saturday night and some dior homme wearing thugs jumped me and took my gucci loafers. Fucked up.

Also, I'm from Hagerstown and there are lots of fucked up people there, lots of drugs like crack, def rednecks with guns, etc but no one ever really kills anyone else. DC is just fucked up.

Despite the cyber-tension, I'm glad that the item was posted, DCist. The ensuing comments have been enlightening and display much more intelligence and thoughtfulness than the usual internet user feedback (ok, that's not saying much). I wasn't aware that these emotions existed between DC residents, even if it may be with a small portion of the population.

I think some white people need to realize that racism, impulsive or directed, still exists and some non-white people still experience discrimination or are treated with caution or more. At the same time, I think that some non-white people need to realize that some white people have experienced racism themselves. The forms may be different in some cases, but does it matter who's retaliating for what, why, and for how long?

My personal opinion is not favorable for outsiders who move into a new neighborhood and disrespect their neighbors and established neighborhood history, waiting for the day when these people are pushed out so they can feel safer or whatever. But at the same time, I do not agree with long-time residents who resent new faces on their block or a quickly changing neighborhood demographic. No one group holds exclusive rights on any neighborhood; change is inevitable, just as I'm sure these neighborhoods were quite different 100 years ago. I don't want to live in an all white neighborhood, nor do I want to live in an all black neighborhood. There's plenty of racial and ethnic strife in this world, and I'm disappointed that we still haven't risen above this topic of ignorance.

All social existence is the management of ones "impression" upon others. Whether it's amongst your "homeys" or "the man". Whether you are an Indian chief, hipster trying to "present" the impression that you don't "care" about your impression..you are always or should be aware of your presentation. That's what ALL fashion is about .. in the boardroom, the club, the street, the bedroom and so on. That "double consciousness" stuff doesn't stop OR start with your "impression" upon another ethnic group.

I would love to see this thread limited only to those who have actually been stalked, menaced and assaulted by groups of children. Until it happened to me I had no idea what it was like.

I have had rocks thrown at me and be stalked and menaced by the same group of kids that I have seen in hand cuffs in my alley 3 times. Imagine the chances of my seeing them arrested 3 times in my 6 months here.

Never in my life of living in the inner city have I been so horrified as I am now having stupid kids after me for fun or whatever it is they are thinking. In my opinion children are far more likely to do something extreme than adults.

Most of the kids in the Shaw area seem fine but there is a group of 5 kids here who are nasty little trouble makers who seem destined to do serious harm. Maybe they already have.

I can't wait until my lease is up.

"The racial tension is serious, no doubt in large part from things like luxary condos, Targets and TGI Friday's opening up across the street from subsidized housing and projects."

This type of attitude always makes me laugh. In what way are TFI Fridays or Target the domaine of white, yuppie gentrifiers. To be honest, I think that the new developments around Columbia Heights (certainly when compared with Logan, for example) are actually aimed directly at the local, working class residents.

Whole Foods, Starbucks, The Ellington etc are one thing, but no-one here has pointed to the new Giant - which really does serve the local residents. Many of the other stores already signed on for the Columbia Heights development (Best Buy, Bed, Bath and Beyond) are practical and much needed in the area. These are not tanning salons and doggie day care places.

Not to mention the redeveloped Bell Multicultural and the Charter School opposite on Irving. How many of the incoming white gentrifiers are really sending their kids to Bell? Not many, I'd imagine. Yet the neighborhood in general is benefiting from the changes.

And what about those wannabe punk kids that used to put on shows at what is now the Charter school? I'd like to see some comments from them about how incomers stole their crappy gig venue.

SuperstarTradesman is right. The majority of the new retail outlets that are going into Columbia Heights are not outposts of yuppie glamor but rather normal, neighborhood-type places that provide benefit to the whole community, regardless of income. In fact, if you want to get your anti-elitist dander up, go to columbiaheightsnews dot org and read through the comments - a lot of people are complaining about the DC USA store mix (Target, Marshalls, Foot Locker, etc.) because they don't find the stores to be nice enough for their tastes. These people are literally upset that they have to walk 10 minutes down to Whole Foods.

The example of DC USA illustrates a particularly weird (in my experience) aspect of the whole gentrification debate in DC. I used to live in the northernmost neighborhood of Manhattan, which was working-class, primarily Dominican but gentrifying as more young people, actors, professional families, etc. were moving north because they couldn't afford more central Manhattan. A few blocks away over in the Bronx there was a giant parcel of land that was being redeveloped for retail - some of the exact same stores as in Columbia Heights (Target was the anchor, they had a Marshalls, Starbucks, and an Applebee's I could never find anyone to eat at with me.)

In NY, these stores were a SELLING POINT. When I bought my apartment, the real estate agent was quite happy to tell me that a Target was coming in, and when it opened I went twice on the first day. The neighborhood was thrilled to have it. And, news flash: Target isn't a yuppie store. Has anyone ever *BEEN* in a Target? Their prices on basic toiletries (shampoo, soap, etc.) are often up to 1/3 less than at drugstores like CVS. I think their contact lens solution is about 50% cheaper - I go and buy their store brand in bulk. They also sell clothes, and I guarantee you that your K Street/Georgetown people aren't going to Target to buy jeans. Same with Marshalls and Lane Bryant. These stores are NOT yuppie outposts, people.

However, this being DC, the fact that they're putting middle-class stores into land that's been lying vacant for 40 years somehow morphs into big bad whitey coming to push out the black man. Never mind that the local black population is going to benefit hugely from the lower prices, better selection, and jobs that the stores will bring.

This kind of self-defeating attitude, which appears to be rooted solely in paranoid hatred, really flummoxes me.

The Invisible Hand

As individuals our lives are composed of a negotiation between radical subjective self hood and objective social structures. This IS a capitalist, free market liberal democracy rooted in European tradition, aesthetics, morality and political science. Although it owes more of a debt to african and native american culture than it will acknowledge, the OVERWHELMING structure comes from the Western tradition.The hispanics and Afr Americans buffeted around by social processes would be infinitely better served adjusting to that reality than waiting for some unrealistic adjustment of the dominant to their hulmble worldview.

Can't agree more with Sweet and the alleged original e-mail writer. This point can't be made enough: while I completely respect the dynamics that racial injustice play in society as a whole, man, the self-hating white people need to stop talking as though they somehow deserve to have rocks thrown at them in their own neighborhood because of historic, systemic, deep-seated racial injustice that is so much bigger than you moving into a majority-black neighborhood.

No one deserves rocks, and no community should put up with kids who are pulling that crap. If police aren't going to, well, police, then the community has to step up.

White people shouldn't be keeping their heads down and walking around in fear as though they don't belong in this neighborhood. That's self-imposed isolation. You want to belong? Keep your head up, say hi to your neighbors, wave to the kids, be a part of things. If you keep your head down and don't engage, people looking for someone to hurt will victimize you because you look like a victim.

When rocks are outlawed, only outlaws will have rocks.

Who knows where to even start with this, but I will echo the idea that a Target moving into a neighborhood is not a bad thing. Count the number of DC plates in the parking lot of the Target on Route 1 in Alexandria and you will see that DC residents, black, white, Hispanic, young, old, etc all appreciate lower prices on staple products like paper dishes and potato chips.

If there is demand in DC for a Target (and a Wal Mart if you count the DC plates down in Kinstowne) then who really cares if a Target or Wal Mart opens up in Columbia Heights.

I would think that a store that sells things that people need at low prices would be a better than a vacant lot or a bullet-proof window take out store selling rolling papers. But what do I know, I am white and moved here to take a good job, so I am clearly the devil himself.

Better that all of the decisions in this city be made by the "old timers" who have shown their astute political judgement by electing Marion Barry (twice) and Sharon Pratt Kelley.

I got two words for all y'all: Bernard Goetz.

The only way the city government (the entity most directly able to change this situaiton) will do something about this is when a grown-up sociopath with a gun shoots and/or kills the juvenile sociopaths who are attacking people.

Then again, maybe not, since even decent, minding-their-own business kids have gotten shot in Columbia Heights and nothing has changed (see discussion of Donte Manning case at: nativeson.wordpress.com/2006/05/05/remember-donte-manning/ ..... thanks, "stop snichin").

As the rants on this post indicate, this problsm is already at a high simmer, and I predict it's not going to take much to get it to a full vigorous boil.

jds is an asshat.

And how is it white people's fault that DC is governed by clowns? Last I checked, DC was still majority black. Also last I checked, a large proportion of newcomers to DC do not register to vote here because they want to vote for their local rep/senator back in their home states. So the percentage of voters in DC who are black is if anything higher than their share of the overall population.

But of course it's always whitey's fault in this town.

Please.

ChelseaDagger --

I wasn't putting blame anywhere, necessarily, and I certainly wasn't saying it's the fault of people who move in that they're being hit by rocks -- on the contrary, I said the rock throwing was just kids being idiots. If they were a bunch of Finns, Samoans or Orthodox Jews throwing rocks, they'd still be idiots, but being kids, they'd probably still do it. Some kids act like idiots, and it's only the adults who feel the need to read complex socio-economic messages about gentrification into the way their idiocy plays out.

But CHNewby asserted that the people being displaced now have "no more right to the community than the white residents who were displaced 40 years ago," which seems to equate voluntary white flight with the often involuntary fallout of economic transformation of poor neighborhoods. Which is ridiculous. If white people left the neighborhood 40 years ago, they did it because they feared their property values would fall because of their new black neighbors. And when they took their middle-class incomes and their votes with them, leaving less money to sustain area businesses and little incentive and/or ability for politicians to provide good services to the area, their fear became a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'd say the people who lived in the neighborhood even as it fell into significant disrepair and kept it from becoming a complete nightmare have a stronger claim to the community than the people who left.

As for today, the buildings you mentioned aren't being torn down or renovated yet, but that doesn't mean they won't be once the existing developments go forward. Regardless, plenty of rents have been raised, plenty of rowhomes have been rehabbed into expensive condos, and plenty of property tax bills have gone up already. For longtime residents of a neighborhood that was struggling for decades, that's a shock no matter who's at fault -- landlords, new neighbors, the failure of the U.S. to come up with sane urban planning over the last century, etc. Of course landlords have the right to do what they want if it's within the law, but it doesn't mean their decisions have no consequences.

Surely we can have sympathy for people who have had their lives thrown into some turmoil as a result of gentrification, even while we also recognize that new development can often bring benefits for the area and the city as a whole, can't we?

Probably not, as this is an anonymous Internet comment thread. But you see my point now?

Jds-
1. check yourself- I am black.

You love dropping that bomb don't you Chris Lee? I'm surprised people are still taking the bait.

But back to what you were saying about "privileged victimhood" (#151). Our fundamental disagreement comes from the fact that I believe "privileged victimhood" is an oxymoron; there is no privilege in being repeatedly victimized by racism.

Unfortunately windbags like Al "I was a paid snitch for the FBI" Sharpton and Jesse "I have less integrity than God gave a gnat" Jackson have built their bully pulpits on our nation's shameful legacy of racism. These two bloated, bloviating, blowhards have been tapped by the "liberal media" to represent Black Americans and it has been to our detriment. So I see where you get the idea of "privileged victimhood" from, but what I don't get is why you are so intent on dismissing any discussion of Black American's unique situation as just so much pissing and moaning?

Reading over these comments is really depressing. There are a lot of different views anyone can have regarding violence and racism in this town. I believe it is all perspective.

Often times, people who have had negative encounters with people of a different race, all the sudden make a generalization that all people of that race must have the same quality. Racism and generalizations are everywhere, as seen in the comments listed.

I've been mugged and had rocks thrown at me by some Black kids in the neighborhood. I get really angry about it and I really do hate the kids that assaulted me. They happen to be Black, but I do not hate all Black people. Some of my best friends are Black. On the other hand, we don't know the full story of some of these kids and whether the hate stems from a bad experience they've had with people of other races. In addition to this, there is racism that exists within one's own race. For instance, I'm Asian and I'm married to a Caucasian man and I get looks and comments all the time from Asian people. I'm sure Blacks experience racism within their own culture as well as Caucasians, Hispanics and everyone else on this planet.

Like someone said earlier, the problem in this case is the violence. Unfortunately, sometimes racism leads to violence and vice versa- violence leads to racism.

Anyone have any real solutions to all this?

Has there ever been a DCist thread that hit 200? If this one does, do we all get T-shirts or something, maybe a gift bag?

Anyone have any real solutions to all this?

We have to keep talking to one and other; openly, honestly, and respectfully. Sure it's much easier (and more fun) to lob ad hominem broadsides at someone who has a different opinion than yourself but, aside from a few jackasses who are full of courage.com, for the most part folks here are trying to communicate with each other.

I know that some people feel that threads like this generate cheap heat for DCist, but I'm glad that folks are here and just as fired up as ever. You know what they say: the opposite of love isn't hate, but indifference. And indifferent is one thing no one can accuse the commenters here of being.

HR

178

I'm with you on the Carlo Rossi, but nix the cigars (remember - I love smoking bans!) I'll see you the cheap wine and raise you some cheese from the P St. Whole Foods, though.

I say we pick a bar. I would like to meet some of you good for nothin' blow hards...;)

"Anyone have any real solutions to all this?"

Just be open and try to help where you can. Do that for a while and you'll learn the whos, whys and hows. You and your neighbors won't be nameless or faceless to each other. If nothing else, that's a success in itself.

clearly, this makes jds the best potential dancer out of all of us...zing (shit, i am racist)

oh, what a day...

All love

"how you like them apples?"

why would you ever type a sentence like this?

White flight? Give me a break, there was never "white flight" from DC. DC has always been the home of transient and short-term upper-income (largely white) workers and a more diverse working class (largely black).

It was black flight that killed DC. Who do you think moved in to PG County and are now moving all the way down to Southern Maryland? Stand at L'Enfant Plaza one morning and watch who gets off those MTA commuter busses that come up from Prince Frederick and beyond. It isn't wealthy whites, its middle class blacks desperate for a nice house, a real yard, and decent schools and willing to commute 3 hours round trip to get it.

These people left DC long before gentrification began and while housing costs played a role (although not as much as you may think as housing costs everywhere have increased), you will find that what fueled this suburban migration is the same thing that fuels every suburban migration...backyards (DC doesn't have them) and good schools (DC again doesn't have them).

Fix the schools, make the parks more than simply depots for the homeless, and you might, might, have a chance of turning all of that around.

You know, after thinking about it, Target does offer affordable goods and could be a boon to local residents. I brought up Target as possibly sticking out in the neighborhood because it's a company that markets itself to more a more affluent clientel. Target's CEO Bob Ulrich has said exactly that in the press:

"...our guests, who are on average about 20 percent more affluent, more highly educated, come from more sophisticated areas."

My point was that in context of the Target, TGI Fridays, the ridiculously expensive condos and the freakin WINE BAR that opened up, the neighborhood has changed and the new developments are definitely targeting (no pun intended) more affluent people. I'm not saying that less affluent people won't shop at the Target, or that it's a bad thing that they've developed vacant land, but I'm sure there are folks out there who've lived in the area for decades who are wierded out and possibly upset that Columbia Heights is suddenly looking like more like Bethesda than DC.

Personally, having lived in that area for years, I view the whole development on 14th street as a little bewildering and strange, and considering how expensive all of these condos that they've put up are, I'm a little resentful.

RBK - You are racist. Most of the people posting here are racist, we just don't want to look at ourselves and deal with it. Instead, we go on these guilt trips and try to make ourselves seem like victims in a situation where we too are committing some form of violence whether we are aware of it or not. Imposing your lifestyle choices (SUV's , 4WD baby strollers, not picking your dog's poop) , shopping needs , live music bans, and the complaining about the previous inhabitants of your current neighborhood are all forms of violence.

IH - I have way too many friends from Boston, and I love using that phrase, I'll use it whenever I want.

I have to echo what someone said before... privileged white people always jump at the opportunity to make themselves out to be the victims of something or the other because they can's stand the fact that throughout history they tend to play the role of the conqueror, the oppressor, the executioner, the racist, the rapist, the dictator, so on.

It doesn’t take a lot to realize that you are privileged and that you have a responsibility of being aware of that privilege.

As a white person, or white in appearance you have the privilege of knowing that:

- If you should need to move, you can be pretty sure renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

- You can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

- You can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

- You can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

- When you are told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

- Whether you use checks, credit cards, or cash, you can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

- You can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of your race.

- You can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

- You can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in your culture any penalty for such oblivion.

- You can criticize our government and talk about how much you fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

- You can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge," you will be facing a person of your race.

Holy crap hombre, that was some racist sh*t you just dropped. For instance:

Assuming white people can afford the nice housing they want, and that they don't get harrassed in public because they are white is total bullsh*t.

Plenty of terrible things happen in white neighborhoods.

There are plenty of second- or third-generation non-whites who don't know or give two sh*ts about the suffering their grandparents went through. You put a child of any race in front of a TV long enough and they all come out the same.

JDS,

I wish.

Also, you can't just quote anti-racist materials and hope it sticks. Put some bearing on what you are saying.

I retract my white flight comments, I agree with those who posted after me and they were not well thought out or well informed. However, I stand by everything else I said, in particular my disgust with rich black kid. Hey rich black kid, does this sound like a racist to you:

"White Perspective: I'm not racist, it is economics. Man, I didn't know d.c. was a denizen of black folks, no wonder I got this property cheap. I know black people, but these aren't like the ones from the upper middle class community I am from, so it is ok to ignore and belittle them. I am hip to their culture, I’ve got the cd collection to prove it. I didn't own slaves, nor do I believe there is a fallout from the segregated history of this country, and I am completely not interested in their issues, after all I have trees to save. Black people are scary. Now that this is MY HOME, I am going to make some changes to the community to suit myself, fuck the looooong history of the demographics, shops, churches, restaurants, barbers, establishments, etc,... that were here before me. If they can't afford to be my neighbours fuck em. These people have every opportunity in the world to be more like me...THEY CHOOSE NOT TO BE, fuck em. In fact sometimes, it pisses me off that they scold the opportunity to be more like me. Gentrification is not a bad word. Racism is dead. You are ignorant."

That is a negative generalization attributed to an entire race group. It's the same as me saying all black people are ignorant, fried-chicken eating criminals, something I would not say because I don't believe. You, on the other hand, clearly have some twisted beliefs about what all white people supposedly think. You are paranoid and delusional. Of course there are SOME white people who think that way, just as there are SOME cheap Jews, dirty Mexicans, asshole racist WASPS, criminal blacks, etc., but that does not make vicious stereotypes any less productive or accurate.

Here is what I ACTUALLY think. I chose to live in CH as opposed to say, Woodley Park, because I wanted to be in a diverse neighborhood with lots of different types of people, and in particular, in a dynamic neighborhood that was maintaining good traditions (authentic mexican places, barber shop culture, all that kind of stuff is great) while rooting out vices that NOBODY, black, white, or hispanic, wants in any neighborhood (public drunks, graffiti, garbage, kids throwing rocks, crime, prostitution, drugs).

I can't do anything to affect the history of segregation or slavery. I CAN donate money to local schools, I CAN "save trees", I CAN try to eliminate public drunkeness by pushing for single sales bans, I CAN clean up local schools, I CAN patronize quality businesses, new and established, and refuse to patronize The House, and I DO all these things. I am white, and I am possitive influence on Columbia Heights. F---g deal with it. I am not a savior. Not every black who moves out is a loss (though some are) and not every white who moves in is a negative (though some are). But to the extent people like you, people like Sinclair Skinner (do I have the right name) traffic in white devil stereotypes, you ARE no better than any other racist throughout history, you just perpetuate the same bs generalizations.

Once again, RBK, charming. Your articulate eloquence, the sheer force of your reason, your ability to elegantly capture the perspective of all blacks living in a gentrifying neighborhood (you didn't retract that one, did you, or did I simply miss that as well in the other 200 comments on this thread) are truly astounding. I can't imagine why any person, white or black, would ever choose not to fraternize with you. Of course, you have a white girlfriend, so anything you say is immune from criticism. Meanwhile, as a latte sipping hip-hop poser sipping wine at non-existent wine bars, I apologize profusely. I now have much greater insight into the apparently bigotted minds of all my neighbors, black and white alike (who, amazingly, I have never had any problem with, but I guess they just hid their hatred for my yuppie ass). I will now, as requested, take the tampon out of my ass and return to eating wonderbread and mayonaise sandwiches in Ballston. Thanks for enlightening me, and helping protect D.C. against the evil that I and my tax dollars represent.

Questionable behaviour of CH residents:

Latinos -
Ride their mountain bikes on the sidewalk and expect pedestrians to get out of the way. Blast reggeaton from their car speakers so that the whole world can hear it.

African Americans -
Cut in line to get on the bus and talk really loud on those walkie talkie type cell phones. Blast hip hop or r&b from their car speakers so that the whole world can hear it.

White yuppies -
Jog on the sidewalks while not wearing a shirt (is that really necessary guys?)instead of using rock creek park for outdoors physical activity, blast Dave Mathews, Norah Jones, Temple of the Dog, Sublime or any other crappy artist whie people love from their car speakers. Don't even get me started on frat boys and their beloved Bob Marley's "Legend".

Everybody sucks, sometimes.

SWester --

You're wrong. Cminus has already addressed this to a certain extent. But the development of a massively transient population linked mostly to the federal government is relatively new. There used to be fairly large communities of Jewish, Greek and other non-WASP white populations who lived in neighborhoods like Columbia Heights and worked downtown in small businesses that had little, if anything, to do with the federal government. But most of those businesses don't exist anymore, and many of the descendants of the people who worked in them are in different lines of work now.

Follow the migration of synagogues from near 7th Street downtown (like the one at 6th and I, formerly the home of Adas Israel, which is now in Cleveland Park) to upper Northwest or the suburbs, and you can see how Jews, to take one example, mostly fled the city about 40 years ago. My own family is a good example of how the District's native Jews left neighborhoods like Columbia Heights. My great-grandfather lived in Mt. Pleasant and worked in a hat shop he owned downtown; his son (my grandfather) moved to Arlington and continued working there. The hat shop closed in the early 1980s, when the downtown business district started dying out. My father lives in the Maryland burbs and is a lawyer downtown, and now I'm back in Mt. Pleasant in another line of work altogether. As is the downtown business district -- the former hat shop now houses a gourmet lunch place.

Middle class blacks didn't move out of the city until after whites did, anyway, so black flight only exacerbated problems white flight had already set off.

White people have much more options regarding where and how they want to live than minorities ever will. I don't believe that the essay refers to that issue in such specific or "absolutist" terms, it means that if you are white you are more likely to find a larger variety of and easily accesible places to live than a black or latino personal would. Denying the fact that landlords and real estate agencies are not for the most part racially biased would be ludicrous. Of course if you are white and plan on moving into a predominantly african american neighborhood you might be met with some hostility but even in that situation you have to ask yourself who gets a quicker response when dialing 9-1-1.

It is undeniable that white america is predominantly oblivious to the outside world and other cultures I can't otherwise find an explanation for the ignorant and racist approach of this country's government when it comes to foreign policy and why most americans approve it or choose to ignore it.

I recommend you read the entire essay, written by a white woman, and take it up with her.

"It is undeniable that white america is predominantly oblivious to the outside world and other cultures.."
I find this to be the most laughable chestnut.

No, I think it's technically accurate, just misleading. If you're going to say that white America ("I could be one of your kids!" sorry...) is "predominantly oblivious to the outside world and other cultures," you'll get no argument from me.

Where it becomes misleading is that it suggests, albeit with a Cheneyesque phrasing to ensure later deniability, that non-white America isn't. And that's simply not true. If there's one thing that unites all Americans, regardless of race or creed or color, it's that the majority of us know damn-all about any country we don't have a close personal tie to.

That said, it's not fair to compare the typical inner-city resident with a "post-college cosmopolitan" of the sort that we get a lot of in DC, because the cosmopolites are a small and very unrepresentative group. Heck, the very word "cosmopolitan" implies an international outlook, while America is a country where the average person doesn't even have a passport.

(Not to mention that non-white post-college cosmopolitans are just as eager to travel as their white peers, which suggests that class and education, not race, are the issues here.)

I think we cracked 200, there isn't much further to go with this :)

Target is a sign of affluence? Have you ever actually been in a Target? It's a discount store. Granted, a tiny bit up the scale from Walmart. But it's not exactly Neiman Marcus.

I read a few of these posts earlier today and I found them interesting because I have lived in Columbia Heights for a couple years. CH is convenient and diverse. I have lived in 4 other neighborhoods in DC. A couple that most would not consider.

Most of these posts are pretty silly from my point of view...people are mad about something...or many things, and I think this forumn is a convenient release.

I am often outside in the neighborhood and I see these things:

1. People walking their dogs (I'm not even a big fan of dogs but it doesn't bother me)
2. People going to work
3. People going home after work
4. People going to grocery store
5. People waiting for the bus
6. People bringing their kids home
7. People going to eat
8. People picking up trash

I don't personally know of anyone who has had a bad experience here. I don't even lock my doors sometimes. I'm not scared.

Mark:

You have a point, to a point.

But the poster I was responding to was lumping all black people into one culture (and suggesting that blacks are in fact the world's largest race), based on skin color. Chinese people are generally of one race, and modern day China is a culture in and of itself, beyond the obvious many different groups that make up the overall culture. Are there different heritages, backgrounds, and languages? Of course. But the Chinese government has done a pretty good job of assimilating most into one group, for better or for worse, especially in urban areas. As a modern Communist country, they have a distinct culture that transcends their history.

TWO TWENTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yay ;)