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Photo of the Day: November 25, 2009
Ballou HS Rocks the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade
Council member Jim Graham (D-Ward 1) never ceases to amaze us. When he's not looking to shutdown bars and clubs (whether he has a reason or not), he's proposing schemes to put strip-clubs anywhere but in his own ward. He's newest plan? Putting them under Dupont Circle. Yes, you read that right. Under Dupont Circle.
The Washington Times is reporting today that Graham has floated the idea of relocating some of the strip-clubs forced out of the area around the new baseball stadium to a former trolley-car complex underneath Dupont Circle. As you may recall, Graham managed to find space for some of the strip-clubs in Ward 5, but a number of limitations imposed by the D.C. Council have left two of the clubs searching for new homes. The area underneath Dupont Circle, known as Dupont Down Under, has been used in the past for a food court, though it has remained empty since 1995.
Though Graham has called the proposal a "germ of an idea," a number of neighborhood activists have come out in opposition already, and predictably so. The area underneath Dupont Circle surely has potential, but is that potential best exploited by strip-clubs? Other ideas have been thrown around before, including a Washington Sports Club, a bike station or to revive the trolley system closed down in 1962. We'd be partial to a mix of the latter two, though underground restaurants, bars and shopping options also seem attractive.
What would you like to see done with Dupont Down Under? Would your strip-club needs be better met with new alternatives to the existing stock, which includes Camelot and The Royal Palace? Or should the D.C. Council pass legislation mandating that any more proposals from Graham on where to relocate the strip-clubs be limited to his own ward?
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"germ of an idea"
Don't even want to touch that.
Something should go there.
I don't think critics of this plan are seeing the big picture. How notorious would an underground strip club enclave be, especially under Dupont. It would be a defining tourist attraction, and a much-needed twist for our button down city.
Put SOMETHING down there. It's an awesome space to be used, but for a sure-fire failure like a food court.
Rather, but NOT for a sure-fire failure like a food court.
Trust me when I say that the strip clubs Graham's (supposedly) trying to help would not work in Dupont Down Under. It's:
A narrow rabbit-warren with insufficient access/egress for fire safety
Got poor ventilation
Crappy lines-of-sight
Pretty small (certainly much smaller than their former warehouse homes
Owned by the feds (NPS)
and many other issues, besides.
This is simply a non-starter. Move along, please, nothing to see here save shallow Grahamstanding.
Because homosexuals run the real estate business in this city, I wouldn't count out this idea so quickly, guest 6.
It would be great if they would put fun unique stores down there like art galleries, boutiques and maybe a cafe (not starbucks!).
I know people who have been discussing this for years... How about one of these: roller skating rink, bowling alley, large nightclub a la Trax?
A narrow rabbit-warren with insufficient access/egress for fire safety
Got poor ventilation
Crappy lines-of-sight
Pretty small (certainly much smaller than their former warehouse homes
Sniff. I miss the old 9:30 Club.
I'm pretty sure the Feds don't own the property and it's still under the original 20-year lease.
Nope. The feds own it. WSC Paul London is the leaseholder. Trust me, I know.
Or, I say, a leaseholder. There's some contention over rights to the space.
makes sense it would be some type of club. no other type of business would survive down there...except a casino.
the old food court was awful: dark, depressing, etc. an underground restaurant where people actually wish to eat would be VERY tricky to pull off. in addition to being underground, it's an oddly-shaped space. i've always thought a night club was really the only logical use for it.
Bowling Alley: now THAT is an idea! But is the space big enough?
Maybe they could put a paintball course down there and then they could hold a big tournament, with the hipsters v. frat boys; the "newcomers" v. "residents"; pedestrians v. commuters; Adams Morgan residents v. Arlington pukers, etc. Could be fun.
first off they need to think about what kind of crowd will go to a strip club typically, then they have to have them underground beneath dupont circle. that's probably gonna make that little spot quite an interesting place when nighttime rolls around. The neighborhood should definitely get final say in it, not the council. they'd be better off using as a restaurant or a gym.
Or a LGBT or transportation museum. It's National Parks property.
The more I hear about CM Graham the stranger he seems... But he'd be even more fun if he were some bizarre combination of Willy Wonka, Elton John and the Church Lady!
...hold on a sec...
What about an outdoor strip club during the summer months? ;)
...except a casino.
Now that's a good idea!
I guess this won't be the first time the Feds end up owning strip clubs.
The main space is a ring (as one might expect), and is perhaps less than 30 feet wide. It has tunnels leading off from it in various directions. It really is an awkward rabbit warren.
Since it's circular, neither bowling nor paintball are obvious uses.
"Nope. The feds own it. WSC Paul London is the leaseholder. Trust me, I know."
How do you know? The Times article makes it clear MPD would have jurisdiction, not the park police. And Bill Rice, the spokesman at the City Office of Property Management, claims jurisdiction. The most logical explanation would be that the Feds own the circle itself (Federal parkland...) but rights to the ground underneath are owned by the city. Much like subway tunels are owned by the city, not the buildings above them. Unless you can provide some qualifications for yourself, I think I'd rather not take your word on this.
That said, I think it's a fantastic idea, depending on which clubs would relocate. Certainly at least two of the displaced strip clubs were gay venues frequented by a large number of people who live closer to Dupont. Also, as a historically gay neighborhood, Dupont would be the most logical, friendly atmosphere for a gay strip club - certainly moreso than ivy city.
It may very well be true that the undergound space, as it exists, isn't really suitable for those establishment's needs, but renovations will be needed regardless. The biggest hurdle (outside of the politics) seems to be whether Dupont Underground could be expanded, whether the area is geologically stable enough to provide the type of space needed.
Ryan
Ryan: You don't need to take my word for it. Just wait and see. As I mentioned, a number of entities claim jurisdiction. That's one reason it's been vacant for so long.
Not big enough for paintball/laser tag? Bummer. I guess 26,000 sq feet doesn't go as far as I thought.
Use the space to bring back trolleys! Especially if they can serve as a more pleasant alternative to the 42 bus!
- Adams Morgan
The clubs that were displaced by the stadium largely catered to closeted (and often married) men from the suburbs. For them the clubs were in an ideal location, easy to get to from the highways and out of sight from any passersby that might spot them. Putting them in Dupont Circle (above or underground) simply won't work for that clientele. Some industrial area in NE would be a better fit for everyone involved.
Frankly, this is a great "germ of an idea" for a space that's going wasted in a neighborhood in need of a good jolt.
Dupont Underground failed for the obvious reason that nobody wanted to go down into the dark to eat lunch. But a nighttime venue (or venues) fits very well into a subterranean atmosphere.
An inventive architecture and engineering team could propose modifications to assure public safety. Ande by reconfiguring the inside of the fountain to allow the water to go down would provide a spectacular underground venue. ("Wet" would be right at home.)
Having clubs next to a metro relieves pressures on parking and, realistically, gives patrons a chance to clear their heads instead of (or at least before) jumping into a car.
Those decrying the idea on morals grounds or from fear of "attracting the wrong element" may be squeamish about the idea, but in my occasional trips to SE strip clubs I found the crowd to be very well behaved. What's naughty needn't be nasty.
As for club violence, a gay men's best weapon is his acerbic wit, not his Glock.
DC strives to be a real city and not just the most urban part of a giant suburb. Real cities are inventive and work with their assets, not against them.
It's a great concept.
Charles in Logan Circle
Ryan - The aging queens of Dupont are the LAST bunch to want strip clubs lowering their property values. They get enough of the suburban rough trade crowd over by the "Black Forest" across from the Brickskeller.
I think I hear that Cayman Islands offshore holding company getting another petition together to bring "video slots terminals" to Dupont Circle. BeDuCi: Loosest Craps in Town!
It might be too small for paintball but throw up some partitions and its just the right size for airsoft. And with the gun ban about to be repealed, you're going to need all the shooting practice you can get.
I propose sticking Jim Graham underneath Dupont Circle!
Monkeyrotica,
Oh I definitely agree that there will be a lot of political opposition from outside organizations like neighborhood groups. I was thinking more in relation to the legal situation of the property and its physical limitations.
On the politics, I think neighborhood groups in Dupont probably do wield enough power to prevent the clubs from going to Dupont Underground. Sadly, that doesn't necessarily reflect the optimal outcome for all city residents. I think everyone would agree that a plurality of the gay strip club clientele comes from Dupont/Logan, and neighborhood residents would be the most neutral or positive to placement in their community. To me, that would make Dupont the most likely destination for these clubs. But, with the neighborhood full of well-off homeowners and businesses, Dupont area community groups are much better organized and funded to resist the clubs than other, less affluent communities.
Similarly, I think the suggestion to place the clubs "over there" in industrial areas is the NIMBY mentality that often shortchanges the surrounding, often economically disadvantaged, communities at the benefit of more affluent citizens.
And I would disagree that the majority of patrons at WET and Secrets were closeted suburbanites, at least in my own experiences that did not appear to be the case. Either way, their original placement was not the result of a conscious decision to cater to suburbanites. Restrictive zoning regulations in DC designated the industrial area east of S. Capitol as the only aproprate place for the kinds of clubs that violate general community standards. That's why it was also one of the earliest gay communities in DC, because gay bars were considered to violate community standards, too.
Dupont already has 5 strip clubs within walking distance of the circle. Of course none of them are warehouse sized like the ones displaced by the stadium, but the only space like that is in a warehouse district or, perhaps, in the basement of some CBD office building.
How many strip clubs does ward 5 have?
come on, do the locomotion with me.
It's true, but how many of those clubs serve the gay community?
Irrelevant. Why doesn't the gay community buy out their leases?
Gotta love how the council is trying to dump on Ward 2 - and one of these excrement exercises was launched by Ward 2's own councilman!
Firstly, Graham seems to want to return Dupont Circle to its pre-renaissance days. Granted, it's become a strip mall (thank you so much, Mr. Evans), but it has also become a place where it's relatively safe to hang out with a diverse group of people at all hours. Would adding a plethora of new clubs - and it doesn't matter what kind - really improve the place? Perhaps Mr. Graham simply wants to see the strip mall effect take place in Adams Morgan, Mt. Pleasant and Columbia Heights (too late for that one).
And then there's Mr. Evans' contempt for the people of his own ward in proposing to sell the West End Library to EastBanc without properly involving the residents of the West End, Foggy Bottom, Dupont and Georgetown. Seriously, Mr. Evans has lost it: he sees more shi-shi condos (with only a pittance set aside as "affordable") as the answer, and libraries as a pox. And it's especially unnerving, seeing that West End Library is one of the more well-run branches in the system, with friendly, knowledgeable staff, a good selection of books and media, an active booster group, and consistent patronage from all kinds of DC area residents.
But no, the almighty dollar wins out. Only a handful of local residents were informed of this move before the DC Council passed "emergency" legislation to approve the sale (and said residents had already worked out their own golden parachute with EastBanc). Even the Friends of West End were left in the dark until after the fact. And now the sale only faces a couple of procedural votes before a true community establishment is shown the door (or, as one of the reconstruction proposals has it planned, the area above an active firehouse - dumb-ass planning in the highest).
So, the question is posed: who is going to challenge Graham and Evans when their terms are up? Both have spent far too much time in their positions, have become far too comfortable and out-of-touch with their constituencies, and need to be shown that they aren't allowed to carry on without involving the residents they represent.
More info on this debacle can be found at the DC Library Friends website. If you're incensed by this, it may be worth your while to attend their next board meeting to see if anything can be done.
(Oh, and what's with the DC Council getting a ton of time off? It's not like they have to venture far to return to their home constituencies - this isn't congress, folks, and rushing cockamamie bills [like the West End Library one] through without proper public involvement, simply to get something off the docket before break, is pretty damn low.)
YES!
Strips clubs for the barbarous horde! As long as it's only beautiful blondes and free handjobs on opening night, i'm there!
Georgetown will NEVER have strip clubs underneath their neighborhood, and that's why they suck! Suck it LNSers!
Why not connect the proposed strip clubs with underground tunnels to surrounding hotels, so visiting republicans and pig businessmen don't have to be seen going to and fro?
The obvious slogan for the strip clubs: Go Down in Dupont....
Actually a lot of the strip club patrons were suburbanites. They were often too chicken to venture into Dupont, but I guess they thought they were less gay if the went to SE instead. And the really easy freeway access made for a suburbanite crowd as well.
Under the circle is a bad idea. I like the past proposal to make it into another bike depot.
Whatever happened to the other strip club that closed next to Camelot? Shouldn't its license be available? Either that or take over the Royal Palace.
songfta, one club hardly makes a plethora or will make the neighborhood unsafe. No one is talkg about turning Dupont into a red light district.
As I understand it, the area underground is divided into two parts, a northbound station and a southbound station. Dupont Down Under only used one of these stations, so it's possible to have a strip club on one side and the bike depot on the other. Still I don't think a strip club (gay or otherwise) is the community-building endeavor that DuPont Circle needs. The bike depot (or a transit museum) is the better idea.
Graham has been an a*shole since he got dumped ten months ago.
ChisDC- The issue of where to allow these clubs is as much one of their size as their prospective location. On paper, Dupont Down Under might seem big enough but, looking into it, it just doesn't work. This is for practical reasons that have everything to do with various legal issues, cost of build-out and retrofit, and national politics. Only after those are surmounted would local politics even matter.
If Graham wants strip clubs to move up to NW so much, there's plenty of empty space in his own ward. Why doesn't he try to move it the top floor of the new Target building.
Parking!!! I'm a longtime resident of Dupont Circle who's never owned a car, but even I know that if there's anything that Dupont Circle needs, it's more parking.
I don't think any reasonable person in Dupont would object to those existing license locations being purchased and converted for use as gay strip clubs. All the former proprietors need to do is find a willing seller and put their money down, just like in any market.
Thank you, #47. Spot on...
I've never fully understood why all of the Dupont strip clubs are straight (although the ones on M Street seem more tied to the K-Street/business lunch crowd, if you ask me).
I guess the fact that there are lots of hotels in the area means the conventioneers supply a large supply of out-of-town customers, but it has always puzzled me why one of those owners hasn't turned his business gay.
If the space down under can be modified for an appropriate bar/strip space (the train tunnels actually sound somewhat good for private rooms), then I say bring it on! I live in Dupont and would much rather see a strip club move in than another ComfortOne shoes or something like Ann Taylor Loft.