Terrible, Terrible idea.

Story broken here: http://theeagleblog.wordpress.com/2007/08/06/goodbye-to-late-night-weekend-metro-service/

This is the worst idea ever. As much as Catoe loves buses, NOBODY is going to wait for a bus and deal with transfers to get back home.

This is a terrible idea. Metro weekend service already sucks. If you've ever tried to take the Metro from the Green line to the Red line on a Saturday night, you've already enjoyed waiting 15 minutes for a train, then 15 minutes for a connection, then walking, etc.

Why close the whole system, why not close underused stations at late night hours? Do we really need Federal Center open past 8pm, or Archives when Gallery Place is just a few blocks north, Braddock Rd when King St is a few blocks to the south....ect. If we cut out these stations not only will it save money it will also speed up service.

Metro stations always feel a little safer to me late at night than do bus stops (whether or not they're actually safer, I don't know). When I'm in a metro station, I can see exactly when the next train is coming, and be reasonably confident that it will show up as expected. Bus stops are more of a crapshoot. Sometimes a scheduled bus just doesn't show up, for whatever reason. Sometimes they're early, or late, or two buses on the same line will arrive simultaneously. Waiting at the bus stop after an evening on U Street or in Adams Morgan also means dealing with the catcalls of drunk passengers in passing cars.

This will hurt DC's tax revenue. As a Virginian, I would spend less time and money in DC.

They could easily charge more money late night. Minimum $3.00 after midnight.

I'd be willing to bet they don't completely eliminate the service but cut it back to around 2 a.m. I got the impression from the Post story that most of the passenger load comes before then.

I'd also respectfully disagree with twitch. Metro's late night schedule is pretty much in line with any other subway system I've been on. Just take the numbers from the Post article. Late night service accounts for about 3 pct of the system's total passengers. Doesn't really make sense to run the trains much more frequently.

I don't trust a bus enough to take it on the weekends. Bus routes are almost always more sporadic than metro trains, especially if theyre doing this to save money. So figure at least 20-30 minutes in between buses. With the inevitable no-show that could be almost an hour. No way, I'd definitely just cab it.

guest [16]

Oh yeah, there's a solution: drunken bicycling at 3 AM.

Dear Student Journalist (a.k.a., Guest 3): Publishing the same information a few minutes earlier on your own blog does not constitute "breaking" the story, especially when the source of your info is a television news report.

I love the idea that late night Metro service should simply be "off the table" when considering possible cost savings, though. Even if the service is under-utilized, and costs vastly more than the revenue it brings in? Even if the alternative is raising fares?

Personally I'd like to see some statistics on changes in late night bar revenue before and after the initiation of the late night service, and a side by side comparison of how much a change in the service might cost local businesses in relation to the cost of keeping Metro open each additional hour.

#13 Has an interesting counter-proposal- charging a premium for late night service.

Metro already charges a premium for increased capacity during rush, right? Well, why not also do this for maintaining some capacity during the late late hours? Arguably, the late late hours are less important to Metro's operational model than serving the rush crowd, and so charging a bit more makes even more sense.

Anyone else getting terribly annoyed with the "DC Sucks" posts? I am. Honestly guest18, if you don't like it here, go away.

Is metro perfect? No and we shouldn't stand for mediocrity, but be happy that you have a system like this. Ever been to a city that just has buses? Try getting around and see how

I think Metro's officials have been replaced with assorted zoo animals.

Whenever I'm on the Red Line late at night, the train seems pretty crowded; it's obviously a popular service on Friday & Saturday. If metro charged each rider an extra buck or two after 10:00 PM, that might help. And honestly, who's going to notice an extra dollar on the smart trip card after paying for several $6 beers?

Cabs aren't exactly safe either. I've been sexually assualted by a cab driver and my cousin was attacked by one.

I always thought it was bad enough that the metro stops its service at the exact moment most bars close (so people who lose track of time and stay until last call can't take it), and the trains come so infrequently that most people would rather risk driving than have it take 5 times as long to get home.

Guest30:

"DC Residents - If you don't like how metro operates, move or start your own train system! Stop whining!"

How about this: Maryland residents - Get a job in your own state, get your state to adequately fund Metro, or stay off of our trains.

Sound ridiculous? It still makes more sense than your assinine comment.

For the record, I believe the proposal was actually to have buses "follow" the metro lines (per the original WAPO story). With that being said, when my night of hard partying at PG Plaza or Benning Road is over, I would much rather take a train home than a bus.

@36: Only between 2-3 am, IIRC.

Any change that contributes to increased drinking and driving is an error, regardless of costs.
It would also save money to tear down all the stop lights and road signs in the city, and let drivers use their own judgment to decide when it is safe to proceed. But that would be stupid too.

Is Metro going to get that dedicated tax source from DC/MD/VA anytime soon?

Don't know what the status of dedicated funding is in MD, but NVTA just authorized $300 million in tax increases for transportation funding, including Metro. On Thursday the Davis bill was headed to the full Senate:

http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=25&sid=1207481

Shit, 15 minutes is commonplace in the middle of the afternoon on a Saturday. It's those 30 minute waits that will getcha. But it's true - such long waits are not particular to WMATA.

NO! oh god no! bus service is AWFUL AND SLOW. Once after a show at the warner theatre, we walked to 14th to take the bus north. we waited at least 45 minutes for the bus to show, then it took another 45-60 minutes to get to our stop. the bus service in dc is so awful that I'm looking into getting a car because it's so insanely slow and inefficient. This past weekend, I went to borders downtown and decided to take the bus home rather than the metro (live in columbia heights)... again, it ended up taking about two hours to get home (3 miles away from borders).

I hate John Catoe ... I want my carpet and my late night metro service, this guy needs to realize what an ass this would make him in the eyes of every young professional out there

Yes, he has to make Metro fiscally solvent but totally cutting back these hours makes no sense. Also, in the Post article he said he'd go around the board if he could. So Jim Graham saying it's "dead in the water" could mean nothing.

Does Catoe know that DC is not LA?

49: If those hours are bleeding money, it makes perfect sense.

According to the Washington Post, WMATA spent $90 million in overtime pay for 2006, I would suggest that Metro reduce overtime to pay for the $5 million that running the late night service costs. Catoe is obviously more afraid of the union than customers.

This is a really good idea. Buses that follow the Metro lines, only making stops at those stations? At 2 am in the morning. Indeed, this might be a helluva lot faster than taking the train. Why is everyone so opposed to this?

Pollution wise it kind of sucks. It would be better if the buses ran with overhead electric lines like in San Fran, but still. I guess the hybrid diesel ones will do for now.

A well-deserved stigma. There's no way buses following the metro route could arrive on time every 15 minutes, and make the trip in less than, say, three times the length of time it takes for the train. It's a nice concept, but I don't see any feasible execution that will make people happy. You're just going to have more drivers on the road.

In terms of revenue generation, I'm a big fan of the progressive rush hour fare increase. Each station farther out you live, the fare should add $0.50. Want the benefits of riding in from west bumblef*ck? Fine, help us pay for the extra infrastructure and crowding. Or if VA or MD is being stubborn about funding metro directly, the special $20 per ride fare from their stations could make up the difference in no time. That'd get lawmakers' attentions real quick!

So, people are aware that MD and VA subsidize DC metro riders by paying a higher share of the agency's budget per rider than DC does, right?

"There's no way buses following the metro route could arrive on time every 15 minutes..."

This depends on the number of buses used, which is an unknown variable. In fact, for this to work the buses would probably have to be more frequent than every 15 minutes since a bus holds fewer people than a train.

"...and make the trip in less than, say, three times the length of time it takes for the train."

You do realize when you add "say" it is an admission that you are just bullshitting, right?

Personally I dont buy the whole "lets close the late night metro" line that WMATA has been floating, in lieu of another fare hike. Its the same old song and dance politicians and administrators have been using for years... claim that costs are too high and the only way to save the system is to cut vital services....... or maybe raise fares. Then when the populace balks at the unthinkable, we all end up paying a bit more.

Instead of shutting the system down after Midnight, how about:

-closing stations with low ridership in those hours (Federal Center SW would be a perfect example)

-closing stations within several blocks of other stations (Faragut West, Archives)

-eliminating the "station manager" (or one of the multiple mangers) at some stations (New York now has a number of totally unattended stations, and without nearly the security cameras that Metro has). Given that station managers make more than Transit Police, you can hire more Transit cops to patrol stations and still save money.

-publishing schedules of when trains will depart each station after midnight. I have no problem with 15, or even 30 minutes between trains, IF I know when the train is coming and am not stuck running to a station only to find myself waiting 15 minutes for a train. This would increase ridership (and fares) on these trains.

-(her is a bold one) require every bar in the "Metro area" to pay a special tax as part of their liquor license with this money to go towards paying for late night Metro service. Even a $100 per bar per year tax would bring in tons of money for the system.

@65: Closing the redundant or underused stations seems like a great ideas. (There is precedent for it too: the Arlington Cemetary stop has always closed early, when the cemetary does). Its hard to imagine there is much need for people to get on at Federal Center SW, Smithsonian, or Federal Triangle after a hard night of partying. But you would need to keep all the stations in residential areas open, and this proposal probably wouldn't end up closing that many stations after midnight. Also, the cost of late night service presumably has more to do with the number of train operators and the electricty to run the trains, which these proposals wouldn't reduce. So it probably won't solve Catoe's money problem.
But even if it doesn't completely solve the cost problem, it still seems like a step in the right directon, and would not cause any harm or inconvenience to anybody.
Schedules are available online. But it might help boost late-night ridership to print up little copies of them to distribute at stations.

@60: The 4-car trains during the late night hours are far from empty. They are generally at least half full. I estimate it would take 4 buses to replace each 4-car train (seating capacity of a bus is less than a train car).

Berlin is an example of a city with an extremely active night-life that has bus service replacing subway service, but with a very major difference: The Berlin subway closes at midnight Sunday through Thursday and is replaced by buses following the subway lines and stoping at the same stops. But the subway lines themselves operate all night long (not just until 3am) on Fridays and Saturday nights.

"My bike comment assumes that you own a $5 dollar bike lock and that there are lamp posts, parking meters, trees, or other stationary objects within the vicinity of your home and office."

Sure, I'll just lock up my bike on our outside fencepost. I'll let you know how long it stays there.

69 - Sorry, didn't realize you lived in the ghetto. But keep me posted.

They aren't "your" trains ...

This isn't an uncommon misconception, though. DC people think they own and / or prop up the whole Metro area.

So, people are aware that MD and VA subsidize DC metro riders by paying a higher share of the agency's budget per rider than DC does, right?

Do you have a source for that statement? I'm not saying you're wrong; but the FY2005 assessment, the most recent year for which I have stats, tells a different story.

In FY2005, DC accounted for 28.5% of ridership, and paid 34.0% of the subsidy. Maryland accounted for 39.9% of ridership, and paid 36.6% of the subsidy. Virginia accounted for 31.6% of ridership, and paid 29.4% of the subsidy.

The key is, a third of the subsidy is based upon the number of stations within the participating jurisdiction, a calculation which works against DC, which has lots of stations (Smithsonian, Federal Center SW, Federal Triangle) where the lion's share of the traffic comes from outside the city. Incidentally, I'm told this is partly why Metro won't adopt a flat fee per trip like New York -- since the graduated rate usually benefits DC residents, DC won't give it up unless the subsidy is no longer calculated with regard to number of stations, and Maryland and Virginia would rather have their citizens mad about WMATA's fee structure than about taxes.

(Ridership and subsidy stats from http://www.wmata.com/about/metro_matters/subsidy_allocation.pdf)

"Sorry, didn't realize you lived in the ghetto."

My friend had her bike stolen when it was locked in the "ghetto" of the Dupont Circle metro station.

"I blame all of this on our dipshit mayor, who poached Tangherlini, who unlike Catoe, actually understands Metro's problems and the wants/needs of its customers."

Tangherlini's doing a fine job as city administrator. It's interesting that you'd blame our mayor for placing a deserved person in a position of great importance in the city--a job, I might add, that is more important than Catoe's.

" find it interesting that EVERY SINGLE TIME someone has anything even remotely critical to say about Mayor Fenty or his staff on this site, one of his apologists (staff?) is quick to respond. "

Oh yeah, I'm a real Fenty apologist. I think this was the first time--here or elsewhere--I've made any point whatsoever regarding Fenty or the mayor's office. I don't have strong feelings for him either way. Oh, and I work in MD, not DC. *poof* There goes your little conspiracy theory.

Now, do you have anything substantive to add?

Perhaps if the citizens of D.C. were actually constructively involving themselves in efforts to solve the city's problems rather than writing nonsensical diatribes on blogs, then this city wouldn't be on the verge of reversing nearly all the progress that had been achieved by the previous administration.

"Hey, look! Sinclair Skinner got a job in Maryland!"

Hey, look! Linda Cropp posts on DCist!

Fenty is the bastard offspring of Marion Barry and Sharon Pratt Kelly. The Maryland resident/Fenty apologist above would be wise to educate him or herself on the history of District politics, or better yet, stay the hell out of such issues altogether, lest he or she be exposed as even more of a fool. Stick to commenting on the post about fast food restaurants, that's obviously more your pace.

"The Maryland resident/Fenty apologist above"

Too bad I'm neither--I live in logan Circle and didn't vote for Fenty. But then again, I don't know why I'm even bothering refuting such idiotic garbage posted by a comment board troll.

Guest88: Don't even respond to lwatkins. He has a pathologically single-minded agenda for everyone to bike AND cannot seem to grasp that not everyone can live in bike-safe neighborhoods. (He will make fun of anyone who is "paranoid" to leave a bike outside all night.) Seriously, he cannot distinguish between the crime reality of DC versus a European city (very different animals).

Really don't bother arguing with this guy: in the other thread, he proudly explained how he also doesn't shower as often as those around him might hope (don't ask how a thread about the Red Line closing down came around to this...), despite his belief that, "What is that smell?" actually means "My, what is that fabulous subtle cologne someone is wearing a very small amount of in my proximity?" Oh yeah, and anyone who tries to point out their own individual circumstances, he mocks and calls stupid. He thinks anybody who doesn't bike everywhere is stupid, shortsighted, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

I agree with you, by the way: there are some situations that just aren't bike-friendly.

Perhaps, #89, but #88's notion that anyone needs $300 in locks or case hardened steel safe to secure their bike on any residential street in DC is just ridiculous. Someone (lwatkins?) actually gave a few good ideas- use quality lock(s) on a cheap (or apparently cheap) bike, and to actually learn how to lock a bike.

The underlying point is obviously that #88 simply doesn't want to commute by bike enough to find a way to make it work. And that's his/her prerogative. But the notion that they're prevented from doing so by living in CH is pure BS.

"The underlying point is obviously that #88 simply doesn't want to commute by bike enough to find a way to make it work."

Oh spare me. FWIW, I work in Bethesda, and live in Logan Circle. With a Metro Station located directly underneath my building in Bethesda, and the Dupont station a brisk 6 block walk, why on earth would I make a 6 mile bike ride through crowded city streets? It's not a matter of me "not wanting to find a way to bike to work", it's that it would be completely impractical for me to do so. And I said as much in my post. But people on here sure like to jump to conclusions, "not a bike commuter = hates bikes" being but one of them. "Doesn't take public transportation = lazy" is another one.

"Cut the shit. You live in Maryland and wish you lived in Logan Circle."

13th and R St. buddy, just down the street from the good old Central Union Mission. Dinner every Friday night at Lalibela on P St. Feel free to drop by and impart some of your snobbish and sanctimonious wisdom on how my D.C. experience could be improved--I don't get the chance to talk to nearly enough assholes during my day.

"Yeah, 13th and R, Bethesda, Md. "

Sayeth the man who lives in Herndon, VA.

"And yeah, I get that no one may be who they claim, but Guest95 passes the "smell" test on the surface at least. "

Guest95 here.

I would have been happy to expound on the ongoing "renovations" at 1306 R St. that stalled about a year ago...or the troubles of parking on R St. on Wednesday evenings due to events at Metropolitan Baptist...or of the frustrations of the Q St. reconstruction, etc...in order to "prove" my Logan residency to the "guest" above. But what's the point?

It appears he/she has taken issue with the fact that some people--myself included--do not feel comfortable chaining up their bicycles outdoors, and do not live in a place large enough to store the bike indoors. Apparently, my lack of desire to leave my bike outdoors calls into question the legitimacy of my residency in uber-trendy Logan. Whatever. The standing offer to join my wife and I at Lalibela on Friday night still stands. We're typically outside around 7 pm, chowing down on some tibs and doro wot. I might even save Guest96 some injera.

"-Somehow I thought we were discussing a bike trip between Downtown and CH, which is an easy-peasy trip between two relatively safe areas."

I agree--between those two areas, it's a quick and easy ride down 14th or 16th. No big deal. But as far as commuting by bike, it's just not feasible for me since I work in Bethesda. I'm not headed downtown...unfortunately.

"Have you ever ridden the Capital Crescent trail to Bethesda for fun? There's a nice diner at the end of the trip..."

Yes I have, several times in fact. Really like the trail. My wife and I have ridden it on weekends several times. Also, the trail (can't remember what it's called) that runs by National down to Alexandria.

"You really have a tough time with vandals and the like in Logan?"

We live in a 9 unit condo building, and there are three unit owners who commute primarily by bike, and *none* of them leave their bike outdoors, even for an hour or two. True, if you do a good enough job chaining and/or locking your bike up it'd be tough for a thief to get away with the entire bike. But I've seen more than enough tires slashed or stolen, or other acts of vandalism committed on bikes chained up in and around Logan to care to leave my bike out there. That's why we're casual, weekend riders.

...and move to Bethesda, like guest 101?

Bethesda is not the big city, 'burb boy.