September 10, 2007
Taxi Meter Vote Planned Tuesday
Mayor Fenty has until October 31 to issue an executive order about whether the city will make a switch away from the much-maligned yet beloved-by-many zone system in our taxis, but tomorrow, the D.C. Taxicab Commission will meet to vote on their recommendation to the Mayor. Everyone knows that the zone system is unpopular, especially with visitors to the city who often end up angry and confused about how much they should be charged for their trip. But the zone fares have plenty of defenders who argue that since the winners of the system are those who take longer journeys (a recent report on zone fares showed that shorter trips are more expensive while longer ones are cheaper), poorer District residents living out in Anacostia may no longer be able to afford to ride.
The Washington Post ran a story over the weekend detailing a third option that's gaining some traction with the Commission: "zone meters." Basically, GPS-enabled devices that can accurately measure the correct zone fare. The zone meters, which have already been installed in some Yellow Cabs, would help eliminate some of the confusion associated with D.C.'s odd system, the only one like it in the country. But confusion isn't necessarily the main complaint about the zone system -- zone meters would do nothing to address the disparities inherent in the system, which can charge wildly different fares for trips of the same distance.
The Taxicab Commission's vote on Tuesday has been eagerly anticipated in the local media, but in reality, Mayor Fenty will make his decision on his own, and he'll likely take most of this month and the next to make it. In the meantime, what do you think of the zone meter compromise?
Photo by MatthewBradley
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Not sure I like the zone meter idea. Seems like it would be easy for somebody to make a two block detour to cross a zone line and up the fare. At least now I know what it should cost to go from point A to point B and have told cabbies to F off a couple of times when it was clear to me they were trying to rip me off. If there is a zone meter they'd probably have a stronger argument. If we must switch to meters just switch to meters.
I'm confused by the argument that "poorer District residents living out in Anacostia may no longer be able to afford to ride."
When did it become a priority to subsidise taxi cabs for poor people? Sorry, but if you are poor you should get a better job and be less poor. That, or ride the feckin' bus.
I'd like to see meters, others prefer the zone system. Either way, it should have NOTHING to do with the impact of the taxi fare system on socially disadvantaged people.
Everyone who wants meters will regret it when you get stuck in rush hour traffic.
Well, the problem with zone meters is that an unscrupulous cabbie could cross between zones multiple times just by skirting boundary streets. Under the current system, for example, if I'm heading from Eastern Mkt. to Logan Circle, it's a two-zone ride...sometimes the cabbie might choose to go a route that takes me through three zones (dipping down to the freeway and then back north), but I never pay for three zones (and, to be fair, have never been asked to)...with zone meters, the meter will click over, and *voila!*, up goes the fare.
That said, even a slightly flawed GPS meter system is better than the current system, which only works if you know the zones inside and out.
They also need to start being clearer about the add'l charges that you get surprised with, that you only know about if you see the sticker on the side window that says there's an additonal charge during certain months (some gas related thing). A sign on the back of the drivers seat would do a better job of alerting patrons that the fare is not what they are expecting.
The only consistent fare I've seen is from the city to DCA. Well, sort of. It's between $16-18. Other trips seem to depend on the driver, how many people are in the cab, the zone, the time of day, if there is a gas surcharge, and what cycle the moon is in. The current system comes down to 'fuzzy math' that most drivers can't explain to you.
I would welcome a meter system whether it costs me more or less - at least it's honest.
DC doesn't view it's taxi service as a necessary component of the transit system. Instead, they view it as a make-work system for people that couldn't get any other type of job.
Hence we have death-trap cabs driven by cabbies that speak little English and have absolutely no knowledge of the city. I can't count the number of times I've had to tell cabbies how to get where I'm going, even when it's a major landmark like the Supreme Court or Union Station.
We should require real training for cabbies, and require modern cabs. Until then, everything else is just window dressing.
Cab fares should be based upon distance traveled and wait time, because those are the factors that contribute to energy use and the time of the driver. Most transportation systems work this way -- the more time-consuming or longer the ride, the more expensive it is. There's no reason that taxicabs shouldn't operate this way, when trains and planes do. Bus rides already are subsidized to provide low-cost transportation for longer distances. Are there any other jurisdictions in the US or elsewhere that have a zone system?
EmoEmu, my understanding of how the zone meter works is that the GPS system would make this detour scam impossible. It would base the fare on the actual number of zones away your destination is, not on the number of zones driven through. At least that's how it was being touted when one of the local companies started its test run a while back.
EmoEmu -- I agree with you in part. I don't think the expenditure of money is really justified for anything short of a total overhaul. I actually like the system as is, but can understand the arguments for both sides. That being said, I don't think zone meters will make cab drivers any more liable to rip customers off than they already are (which, in my experience, is seriously the exception to the rule). Maybe others have had different experiences, but anytime I take a cab I know within 30 seconds of getting in how much it's going to cost (step 1: look at the map and fare schedule and do the requisite calculations; step 2: confirm the price with the driver), and certainly pay enough attention throughout the ride to tell if the driver is trying to take a detour to ramp up the fare. And as for the problem of receipts, which the zone meters are supposed to remedy, I've never had any trouble in asking and receiving a properly filled-out receipt from a driver. It seems like the people who are clamoring for printed receipts are the type to not bother asking the driver to fill it out, and then unfairly bitch about it, like, "What am I supposed to do with a blank receipt?" It's just not, to my mind, a reasonable complaint.
EdTheRed - As you know, it only matters what zone you start and end in. I'm pretty sure they can make computers smart enough to figure that out.
While I hate the idea of the "zone-meter" system, I would still like to know what will happen for trips outside of DC if this lame compromise is adopted.
Unlike Guest6, I have been charged anywhere from $12 to $20 for a trip from my apartment in Kalorama to DCA. The fare is supposed to be based on milage, but it's more like bargaining at the moroccan bazzar than anything based in reality. If the "zone-meter" charges by milage for non-DC trips, that would be a step in the right direction.
Here's a challenge for you....hail a DC cab and ask how much it will cost to go to Dulles, BWI, or National. Then, hail another one. I guarantee you will get two different prices.
Cab fares should be based upon distance traveled and wait time, because those are the factors that contribute to energy use and the time of the driver. Most transportation systems work this way -- the more time-consuming or longer the ride, the more expensive it is.
On the other hand, the zone system rewards taxi drivers who can minimize driving time -- a driver who can make a run in 15 minutes can start looking for a new fare much faster than one who gets stuck in traffic and takes 30 minutes. By avoiding congestion, a driver runs their car at higher efficiency and minimizes the cab's carbon footprint (and gets passengers to their destination faster). The classic time and distance meter, by comparison, can actively encourage drivers to take long, circuitous routes and/or get stuck in traffic, both of which are pure wastes of fuel.
Are there any other jurisdictions in the US or elsewhere that have a zone system?
Not really; the nearest thing may be the special airport taxi rates in Rome. Any trip from Ciampino to anywhere in Rome is E30, while any trip from Fiumicino to anywhere in Rome is E40. I'm told that there are different flat rates for trips to at least some of Rome's suburbs, so I suppose you could consider it a zone system of sorts.
Disclaimer: In a professional capacity, I have had occasion to work with the D.C. Taxi Commission. Any opinions above are solely mine and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer or the D.C. Taxi Commission.
Guest12, I was wondering the same thing. I used to live 3 minutes from the Key Bridge, in Arlington, and I was ripped off on a few occasions. The worst was when the cab driver went right past my house and continued to Falls Church, conveniently losing his ability to hear/understand English when I tried to tell him he was going the wrong way. It was an obvious scheme to rack up the mileage and he wanted something like $30 on a cab ride that normally costs aroun $15. A cab driver once tried to charge my cousin $40 to get from downtown to Pentagon City, and when she refused to pay that much he called the cops and SHE got arrested.
It seems to me that all cabs should have a GPS device that calculates the mileage from point A to point B using the shortest route, and determines the fare based on that. It would prevent drivers from taking riders on a wild goose chance in an attempt to rack up zones/miles. In the case of road closures and such, the city could hire someone to update the software on a regular basis to account for them and calculate alternate routes.
The zone system was designed for Congresspeople and their troll flunkies to get to the rest of the city cheaply. Enough of that nonsense.
Fenty should take a cue from the School Board and have a "hybrid" taxi system, that combines the worst element of both into an unwieldy and unecessarily complicated quagmire. For instance, meters should only work in Zone 1, 3, and 5 on alternate Thursdays while Zones will only work in Ward 8 on days ending with a "y". During a leap year, cabbies will duke it out on the Planet Triskellion for quatloos. Everyone am teh winnar!
It's irrelevant what system they decide on until you have more than a handful of hack inspectors and they've been given some enforcement teeth.
And by "teeth" I mean "license to summarily execute cabbies who ask 'where to?' then take off when they find you want to go to Northeast."
And by "teeth" I mean "license to summarily execute cabbies who ask 'where to?' then take off when they find you want to go to Northeast."
That's why I always get in the cab before I get to the word "Southwest."
Im going to try and look beyond the racist and elitist comments made by some fellow bloggers ( I wonder how many of them live in DC?)- and put my two cents in...
This is my hometown... I don't love it, but it is where I live. Nonetheless, I have never understood this Mayberry-like embrace of our weird "traditions"... Like no meters in cabs...Two car inspection stations... Excuse me, one... I forgot one was closed...
Stuff like that.... The big small Southern town is alive and well here .... Sigh..
Spending money on zone meters is an utter waste. It's time to kill off the outdated and arbitrary zone system once and for all.
Until we do, I'll take the inefficient and perpetually late buses any day; at least I'll be paying less for terrible service.
DC is so ack basswords on so many things the zone issue is just one of many. I never thought I'd actually miss the midwest. *le sigh*
There needs to be a clear system of charges out of the district. According to the website it's $3.25 first 1/2 mile & $.90 each additional 1/2 mile for interstate travel.
Is that upon leaving the city or the destination?
And if the cabs don't have meters... How are they going to charge me based on distance?
I don't think I've ever been given the correct fare if that's how it works...
While I don't have a particular problem with the zone system (I take a cab once every couple of months, and paying around $11 doesn't seem like a ripoff), the fact that no one else uses it makes me suspicious that we're just using an outdated system. It truly doesn't matter to me, but since (a) DC does it, and (b) no one else does it, I think it's a pretty fair bet that it's not a good idea. I mean think about it-- what does the DC do that's better than what anyone else does? Nothing I can think of.
Put in meters.
Require every cab to accept credit cards.
Make the cab licensing exam tougher.
Ban any cab more than 5 years old.
Hire a team of undercover inspectors to enforce the rules.
"Are there any other jurisdictions in the US or elsewhere that have a zone system?"
Bloomington IN had a zone system when I drove a cab there back in the 70's and 80's.
All fares within zone 1 back then were $1.35.
One thing I've noticed....all of the rhetoric about meters always seems to focus on what the TAXI DRIVERS want to do about meters.
Why doesn't anyone ask the CUSTOMERS if they would prefer meters? And why doesn't the cab commission seem to want to hear from taxi CUSTOMERS (their cancelled hearing was for drivers)??????
And by customers, I mean peopel who actually use the cabs, including tourists and summer residents, not just a random group of people Zogby decided to call.
Do more than sound off on a blog! If you are a DC resident, tell the mayor what you think he should do about the taxi zone vs. meter issue.
Be polite. It's more effective.
CLICK HERE to send a message to Mayor Fenty.
To KR in DC - I'm not sure why this is a "DC resident" issue. I know I use cabs at least twice a week and happen to live in NoVa. I also know that when family comes to visit, they are much more likely to use the cabs, than public transportation. It seems to me tourists and commuters should have as much impact on the mayor's decision as residents in this case. Not in all cases - it is YOUR city, afterall.
I know this may come off as crazy, but how about this --- let the companies who run the cabs figure out how to charge customers. Some will choose zones, some meters, some zone-meters. Make the cab operators post whether they are zoned or metered or whatever on the side of the cab, and let people choose. Sooner or later one system will win out -- the one that people actually want, as opposed to the one they say they want.
And make it easier for cabbies to get licenses. More cabbies, more competition, lower prices. (And if you get ripped off by a cabbie, complain to his company and don't use that company again.)
LOLOLOLOLOL
I don't mean this quite as offensively as it will probably come off but, when y'all start paying a commuter tax I'll consider listening to your thoughts on what the District government should do about something.
Guest 28 - Are you under the impression that we don't already have a large, decentralized cab system with a multitude of companies?
Taxis are an integral part of the public transportation system and should be viewed and regulated as such.
To Guest 27: I get your point. Certainly many from MD and VA use the cabs, not to mention lots of tourists. My point was that elected officials (Mayor Fenty in this case) are most responsive to constituents. You live in NoVA. While you have a legitimate claim to having a stake in this, from a practical perspective you and other non-DC residents have no say in the matter (not saying it's right, just how it is).
28: Getting a cab is not like going to the store and choosing which brand of soap you want. I think few people under your system would actually "choose" the type of meter they want. More likely they would just take the first one that came along, and the cab companies would end up making the decision, not the consumer.
"And if you get ripped off by a cabbie, complain to his company and don't use that company again."
Same situation.. are you really going to pass up a Brand X cab at 2 am because of a past dispute? Probably not, and then they'll just get to screw you over again.
In limited supply or necessary service markets, more regulation is required. Taxis are one of those markets, along with utilities, health care, etc..
Recently, I had the good fortune to ride a cab in Vancouver, BC. The cab had a meter, camera to protect the driver, was clean and was a relatively new car. Compare this to the dirty junker DC cab with ripped seats that took me to the airport that morning. The Van trip was longer, but cost about the same as the DC cab trip.
Well I travel a bit for work and I have been to plenty of cities (take Philly for example), where the cabs not only have meters but have credit card swipe machines in the for guests to use. Most cabs have signs saying they prefer cash, but they have to and will take credit cards.
Yes, they are more expensive for the companies, yes they cost the drivers more, but it is what is best for consumers.
In the end Fenty will have to make a choice to protect one of two groups, cab drivers or the people who ride in them.
Most cab drivers live outside the city. This is a fact. I worked in the hotel industry and so I know lots of cab drivers, many of whom have worked for me over the years. So they are not consituents per se, but they are loud and vocal and they have a well organized representational group that only has their interests in mind.
The other groups is cab passengers. Many of them live in the Disctrict but not all. Those that do probably don't take the time to get in touch with Fenty and the rest of the council.
Guess which one is going to be heard the most?
Cminus, I can't believe that you actually think that. There is way more money to be made by getting to the destination quickly, and racking up more initial fares by picking up different passengers than by waiting for the time fee to incrementally click its way up.
Cminus, I can't believe that you actually think that. There is way more money to be made by getting to the destination quickly, and racking up more initial fares by picking up different passengers than by waiting for the time fee to incrementally click its way up.
If that were always the case, you wouldn't hear all those horror stories about taxi drivers in New York City who take tourists from, say, JFK to Midtown Manhattan via the Cross-Bronx Expressway.
It really depends upon the proportion of the total bill that comes from the flag drop, and the average wait time between fares. If you've got a low flag drop on a short trip, and fares have been running scarce -- well, why not give those tourists from Iowa a look at scenic Staten Island as you make your way from LaGuardia to Astoria?
Disclaimer: In a professional capacity, I have had occasion to work with the D.C. Taxi Commission. Any opinions above are solely mine and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer or the D.C. Taxi Commission.
The zone meter is the best option for one reason: It will go a long way toward keeping cabbies honest, in a city where they are notorious for ripping off both visitors and residents.
34: Philly only recently got the credit card swipes.. maybe a year ago? Many drivers joined the recent strike in NYC. It's also like pulling teeth to actually get a driver to accept a credit card. They'll say it's broken, or will start the meter instantly and then argue that they can't turn it off.
I love the idea that non-residents have no say in DC policy and should be ignored. Guess what geniuses? Who pays a sizeable chunk of the sales, restaurant, and bar taxes in this city?
I love the idea that non-residents have no say in DC policy and should be ignored. Guess what geniuses? Who pays a sizeable chunk of the sales, restaurant, and bar taxes in this city?
District residents, generally.
Slightly less sarcastically, does that mean my opinion counts as to whether Alexandria bans smoking in bars there? 'Cause, you know, I pay sales, restaurant and bar taxes there.