November 1, 2007
Fenty Announces Rates, Timeline for New Taxi Meters
D.C. Mayor Adrian Fenty announced this afternoon that new time and distance meters for D.C. taxis must be installed no later than April 1, 2008. The announcement came about nine hours after the end of a 24-hour taxicab driver strike in response to the Mayor's decision to abandon the zone system.
Fenty and D.C. Taxicab Commission Chairman Leon Swain Jr. also announced the pricing structure for the new meters: a $4 flag drop charge, then 25 cents for every sixth of a mile after the first sixth of a mile traveled. That doesn't include any possible surcharges like rush-hour or luggage fees.
To compare, New York City's flag drop is $2.50, with 40 cents for every fifth of a mile after the first, while Philadelphia's is $2.70, with 30 cents for every additional seventh of a mile.
The Washington Post gets out its calculator and determines that a ride of two miles will now cost a minimum of $6.75, as opposed to a theoretical 2-mile trip that stays in one zone, which would currently cost $6.50. Of course, should that 2-mile trip cross a zone line, the fare would be $8.80.
Drivers who are caught without a time and distance meter after April 1, 2008 will be subject to fines of $1,000.
The Taxicab Commission said it will accept public comments on the new regulations over the next 30 days. According to their city-run web site, the next full meeting of the commission will be on Wednesday, Nov. 14. The public can reach the commission at (202) 645-6018. Ward 1 D.C. Council member Jim Graham said he would hold his own public hearing on the matter as well.
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Good lord. The $4 drop is ridiculously high. How much is each additional person?
looks like my sneaks will still be getting some good mileage on them afterall.
Agreed. I could be on board with $3 or maybe even $3.50, but $4? I'm sure this is just a last ditch effort to protect cabbies who are worried about driving a few blocks for peanuts. Time will show that the meter method is indeed profitable and hopefully that base fare can come down. Also keep in mind the per-mile rate is cheaper than other cities, so for longer routes the difference will be made up. All told, I think we customers win in the long run, and it's good to see the 'strike' didn't exactly derail the process.
The press release states that "All other rates and surcharges for additional passengers and rush hour will still apply." So, same as before: $1.50 for each additional passenger, $1 for rush hour.
I like that the installation deadline falls on April Fool's Day.
Have you ever known a DC cab driver to go 2 miles without crossing into another zone if the rider didn't insist on a specific one-zone route?
The Post article notes that "As in other cities, there will be myriad possible surcharges, including for rush hour, additional passengers, luggage, high fuel costs and snow emergencies. Those charges were also used for zones."
Under the current system, the best way to get ripped off is to have more passengers, and this bullshit looks to be possibly continuing.
I almost thought DC had really turned a corner.
Ugh. Bars near the hill (ie cap lounge) to home in Adams Morgan (18th and U) becomes about $9.90 instead of the one zone fare ($6.50) it used to be if you walked to and from the zone dividers. Granted the cabbie wont be throwing in random extra charges like they used to, but still a bit of an increase, no?
Wonkette found the must-read on this subject - Diary of a Mad DC Cabbie -
http://dccabbie.blogspot.com/2007/11/strike-for-what.html
These rates seem high, but I respect that Fenty is sticking it to the drivers by re-emphasizing meters one day after their lame strike.
Now, let's hope Fenty will improve the regs on what kinds of cabs can operate in DC. Maybe he can try the Bloomberg approach and require hybrids?
I've heard that DC cabs are generally second-hand ones from NYC, which might explain why they're all so shi**y. Anyone know anything about that?
I agree the base rate is way too high. But I am livid at the continuation of the extra passenger fee. That is total horseshit. There is no justification for that.
And there is no justification for a rush hour surcharge either. Your surcharge should be the extra money you pay to sit in traffic.
Like the zone system, this new system is too tied to the idea of the mid-distance ride. Cabbies are so damn afraid of short trips. But if we want them, we should be able to take them without paying more than $5.
I am not happy about this. A initial fare of $4 dollars???? Come on, seriously, folks. I would've been okay with $3.00. On the day they open public comments, DCist should provide a link to that website where people can submit their public comments.
I'm already planning mine which will sound like this, "I do not support the $4 fare drop. I am in favor of a less costly fare drop, such as $3.00, with 35 cents every additional seventh of a mile. I also want stricter regulations such as that the cab driver MUST take us in the direction we want to go to, including the directions of where we want the cab to be directed. I do not want the cab driver to pick up additional passengers. I do accept a per-passenger charge of $1.25, and the rush hour surcharges."
Manhattan plus rates for third-world quality junk cabs. Fenty needs to man up and require real cab overhaul- no cabs older than four years, they get rigorous and impromptu inspections, and cabbies pass a knowledge test about DC streets.
"Have you ever known a DC cab driver to go 2 miles without crossing into another zone if the rider didn't insist on a specific one-zone route?"
I'm so sick of hearing this. If you're too stupid to know that it only matters what zone you start in and stop in, you deserve to get ripped off. (Not really, but damn, some people are morons.)
The high drop fare and low mileage rate combine to preserve the best effect of the zones, which was that (on average) visitors to the city taking relatively short one and two zone trips paid the highest per mile rate while people living in outlying areas of the city who might need a cab for emergency commuting or to get home after the Metro closed pay the lowest per mile rate.
I'm not upset about maintaining the charge for extra people, or the rush hour charge. The rush hour charge, in particular, functions as an incentive to drivers to work during rush hour when the most people need cabs. One of the ways our cab system is better than NY's is that in NY there's a shift change that takes place every morning and evening rush hour, making it hard to get a cab at the time when people need them the most. (The snow emergency charge is also an incentive to the drivers to provide service when it's badly needed).
I do have problems with the luggage charge, just because it's unclear when it should apply. (And I see that it was left off the updated info cards that are in the cabs now.) It's called a "trunk charge" in the regs, but that's supposed to mean it applies to heavy baggage (like a trunk, which nobody uses for traveling nowadays), not just to any baggage that does in the trunk. They need to clarify this one, or drop it.
Metro is still the best method of travel. The 4 charge and old/smelly cabs just confirms this. Oh, and the fucking charge for extra passengers. Thats just BS!
I don't like the extra person charge. That's what makes piling into a cab with friends affordable and easy when going out as opposed to taking the bus or walking. Make taking a cab in this city cheaper, and I'll use it much more to get around town when I'm hanging with my friends.
"The high drop fare and low mileage rate combine to preserve the best effect of the zones, which was that (on average) visitors to the city taking relatively short one and two zone trips paid the highest per mile rate while people living in outlying areas of the city who might need a cab for emergency commuting or to get home after the Metro closed pay the lowest per mile rate."
I disagree with the underlying assumptions of this argument. Firstly, why is it to be assumed that only visitors take short (let's say under 2 mile) trips while residents take longer ones? Second, even if you were to accept the first premise, why should a system be designed to subsidize residents who live far away from the center of town? For every Ward 8 resident this benefits (and I'm not sure why the cab system needs to be used as a means of income redistribution) there will be at least one Ward 1 resident who benefits too, all at the expense of those who live in what is currently Zones 1 and 2.
People should pay for what they get. The cab system should not be designed for socioeconomic purposes; and even if it were, those purposes should be based upon concrete observations, not wild speculation.
Thank you JonBoyDC...I was going to write the same thing...It's a moot point now, but stupid statements like that used to drive me batty.
From my office to home it's two zones, no matter which way the cabbie goes...$8.80 or $9.80. And in the past (with zones) I haven't cared which way the cabbie goes to get me home because I learned the zone map and knew how much it cost.
Now, I fear that I may have to become the worst backseat ever because I will not put up with stupid driving routes any more.
No, no! Look, I rarely, if ever, take a cab during rush hour, so it doesn't really affect me, but the rush hour charge is not acceptable. It made sense when the zone system was in place and cabs could be stuck in traffic and not making any money. With meters, the surcharge/incentive is embedded - if you sit in traffic, you pay more. If a 2-mile trip takes 10 minutes in the middle of the day and 10 minutes at rush hour, why should people pay more simply b/c it's rush hour? The "incentive to work" should be 1) there are lots of people who want cabs so you might make a lot of money, and 2) it's your freakin' job.
A cab ride from Dupont Circle to the top of Adam Morgan or Mt. P goes from $8.80 to about $5.50 or $6. No complaints about that.
Suggesting cab fares be subsidized as a means of helping poor people is missing the obvious - poor people don't have money to take cabs. They take the bus, and metro, by and large.
JonBoy and Adams Morgan:
Yes, of course if you routinely travel the same route you will know the zone charge. But many of us take cabs to different places, often places we are unfamiliar with.
But the zones are dead so it doesn't really matter now.
What does matter is how we go forward.
Minor point... drop the luggage charge. Several times I had DC cabbies try to charge the luggage charge because I brought along a briefcase. At first I thought it was a joke. Apparently not.
Again, though, what we really need it total cab system overhaul. Now that we pay like Manhattan, our cabs should be like Manhattan cabs. Nothing less makes sense.
Meters in and of themselves cover the rush hour surcharge. NYC has a late night additional charge, which is perfectly valid.
The extra charge per passenger is again nonsense... Consider when you weigh 4 people taking a cab vs 4 people taking the metro. Blah.
Now will they drop the picking up extra fares bullshit?
Hillman:
Guess you don't know any poor folks. 90 percent of cabs won't pick up fares at supermarkets. Many markets have a group of Courtesy Drivers, elderly volunteers, pensioners who give folks a lift back home with bags of groceries. They do it for free but won't refuse a donation toward the gas money.
There are also a few unregistered cabs - you negotiate a fee before your trip. Other than that it's the bus, since most poor people don't live near Metrorail.
can someone answer this question:
why the hell are the portions of a mile measured in sixths, fifths, and sevenths (!)?
doesn't EVERYTHING, like even the car's odometer, measure tenths of a mile?
sevenths can't even be reduced to a regular decimal. we might as well be basing the fares off pi miles or e miles. hell, maybe we can even get i miles in there, just for the fun of using imaginary numbers!
FENTY PROPOSES HIGHEST CAB FARES IN THE NATION!
Fenty has proposed an outrageously high base fare of $4 for each taxi ride. Even NYC, the most expensive city in the country, is only $2.50!
Compare the following charges for a one mile ride (based on little or no traffic):
Boston $3.85
Chicago $3.85
Arlington, VA $3.95
New York $4.10
Philadelphia $4.50
Los Angeles $4.75
DC $5.25
Plus the Mayor proposes keeping the $1.50 surcharge for each additional passenger beyond 2. Again, NYC doesn't do that!
AND don't forget the $1 rush hour surcharge, $2 luggage surcharge and the additional $0.25 for every minute you sit in traffic!
Don't let the Taxicab Commission screw DC residents again!
Please contact:
Jim Graham (Councilmember that oversees DC Taxicab Commission) jim@grahamwone.com (202) 724-8181
DC Taxicab Commissioner Leon Swain DCTC@dc.gov (202) 645-6018
Mayor Fenty adrian.fenty@dc.gov (202) 727-6300
The reason to keep a one-zone trip within the zone is to avoid the absolutely, positively inevitable argument with the cabbie if you don't.
In future it still may be best to give directions to cabbies, but directions will be based on actual traffic patterns and not on irrelevant zones, and the amount of the fare will be on the meter, indisputable.
Using official values where I could find them easily, not counting any rush hour or passenger surcharges:
Chicago $6.05 $8.15 $10.25 $14.05
Arlington Co. $6.35 $8.75 $10.55 $14.75
Washington $7.00 $8.75 $10.50 $13.75
New York $6.50 $9.10 $11.30 $15.70
San Diego $7.03 $9.10 $12.09 $16.92
Philadelphia $6.90 $9.15 $11.70 $16.20
Boston $6.85 $9.25 $12.25 $17.35
Montgomery Co. $7.20 $9.60 $11.20 $14.80
Los Angeles $7.55 $10.53 $13.15 $18.75
San Francisco $7.60 $10.53 $13.00 $17.95
Las Vegas $8.10 $10.80 $13.30 $18.10
I'm not positive that San Diego is calculated exactly correctly, but it should be close. Washington has the highest flag drop charge and the lowest charge per mile ($1.50) and per hour ($15 - cheapest of any city by far). If you're stuck in traffic downtown (here the sorted column -- 2.5 miles and five minutes of sitting) Washington ends up near the cheapest end.
Oh, and from looking at all of this: NYC does have a peak hour charge of $1.00 (from 4-8pm), Chicago has passenger surcharges, and so on. The amounts of wait time I used were guesses, but the longer you're stuck, the better DC looks.
Bah. I had a nice "pre" tag on that and the forums ate it. Mods, if you want to fix that it'll be a lot more legible.
Fedward-
Most DC rides are under 2 miles... in every case DC IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE under this new fare.
Also, try out your analysis with the $1 rush hour surcharge or the $1.50 for additional passengers. DC comes out the most expensive again!
And here I was thinking (as we all were) that this new meter system would give us an incentive to take a few more cab rides, but this is fucking bullshit. I can't believe the cost of a DC flag drop would be almost twice that of NYC! And I thought they were expensive when I lived there...
This is really too bad - I was looking forward to the meters. What a kick in the ass, eh?
Well, Stop Taxi Rip Offs, if that is your real name:
I don't have a dog in this hunt (especially not one to compete with a Single Issue Voter such as yourself), since I don't take cabs all that often, but do you actually have any data to back up your assertion that "most DC rides are under 2 miles", or is that just an assumption you made in order to make your Single Issue sound important? And if you *do* have data, does that data take into account the taxi rides people don't take because they walk to the edge of a zone border, take the taxi to the other edge, and walk the rest of the way?
I won't argue that the flag drop isn't high (it is), but if you're going to throw around claims you'd best back them up. I pulled the two mile number out of the hat because when I worked downtown my office was exactly two miles from the office. The four mile number? Same office, previous residence in Crystal City. The other two? Well, those were random guesses just to see what would happen. Here's another one. Say you're only going a mile, but you're stuck for 20 minutes (think L St at rush hour):
Washington $10.25
San Diego $10.48
Chicago $10.65
Philadelphia $11.10
Boston $11.65
Arlington County, VA $11.75
New York $12.10
Montgomery County, MD $13.20
Los Angeles $13.50
San Francisco $13.90
Las Vegas $14.70
That doesn't account for surcharges anywhere, but even if you add on the rush hour surcharges (where applicable -- and not just in DC), DC's fare is among the cheapest.
Here's one that does hit close to home, though: 1.2 miles, no surcharge, very little traffic:
Chicago $4.45
Boston $4.75
New York $4.90
San Diego $4.96
Arlington County, VA $5.15
Philadelphia $5.40
Los Angeles $5.80
San Francisco $5.80
Washington $6.00
Montgomery County, MD $6.00
Las Vegas $6.30
Again, no surcharges are in those numbers -- so add $.50 in NYC, because this trip is happening at about 11PM (once a week). Note that the DC fare is $6.00 (high in this list), but it would cost $8.80 with the zone system because it crosses U St. DC's on the higher end, but it's much better than the system it's replacing.
And in full honesty: in the process of running these numbers I discovered I wasn't counting fractional mileage units properly when I ran the calculations for the first post, so they're slightly (but not significantly) off. I have no association with the Taxi commission other than the occasional trip in the back seat of a cab, no association with the DC Government other than that I live here, pay taxes, and vote, and I like running through problems like these because they keep skills fresh so I can use them for actual paying work without totally having to retrain myself on how to do them.
MikeLicht:
"Guess you don't know any poor folks."
Oh.
I thought you were above that sort of silliness.
But your overall point actually supports my statement that poor people simple don't take cabs on a regular basis.
"The extra charge per passenger is again nonsense... Consider when you weigh 4 people taking a cab vs 4 people taking the metro. Blah."
If 4 people take the Metro, each and every one of them pays the full fare. You don't get to divide the cost of the suway by 4. (Which isn't necessarily a justification for the extra charge for extra passengers -- it's just a stupid, irrelevant comparison).
And for everyone saying only DC charges for extra passengers or for rush hour -- NY charges $1 peak time surcharge between 4 and 8 p.m.; Chicago charges $1 for the second passenger and $.50 for each additional passenger; Dallas adds $2 for each extra passenger (at least for trips from the airport); and for trips in the central business district, Atlanta adds $2 for each additional passenger. (Atlanta's minimum fare in the CBD, by the way, is $8).
Under this proposed system, a lot of shorter rides are cheaper than they were. My ride home from work went from $6.50 to $5.25. A short ride from U Street to Adams Morgan is much less than the previous rate of $8.80. The same is true of a ride from Dupont to the Uptown when you're running late for a movie. The absolute minimum to get in a cab now went from $6.50 to $4. It was unrealistic for anyone to think it would go down more than that.
(And a higher rate for shorter trips is not about income distribution from rich to poor -- it's about taking money from tourists and business traveleers and putting it into the local economy).
My wife and I got in a taxi near the Capitol. She asked the driver his thoughts about the meters. He said it was in the rider's best interest to have the zone system. Three blocks later he charged us $11.
If a zone system was done properly (i.e. regulated, computerized, a map available to the public), I think it would be in our best interest. Zones can encourage a faster route.
However, time and distance meters can be bad also. Imagine being drunk in a cab (if you can do that, I know it's tough) - the cabbie takes you a path that isnt the most direct.
They both have their pros and cons. I will still walk and use public transportation for the majority of my trips anyways.
Good job, Fenty. I'm glad to hear it. For those cabbies who think this will hurt business: consider the incentive to riders. Ridership will increase with more certainty to the fare. I know I will. Plus, I love the receipt given with all the info. This is the right thing to do.
However, boo to Washington Post. Is it 6,000 cabs or is it 7,500?
Two things good came out of this:
1. You'll get a receipt
2. The lights on the top will function in conjunction witht he meters, as they should.
Otherwise, if you want a cheap ride at a low, fixed price, take a bus.
Some DCist commenters, two weeks ago:
"Yay, meters! Finally! There's NO WAY those cab driver jerks can screw us now!!!"
The same DCist commenters, yesterday:
"What? We're getting screwed by those cab driver jerks again!!!! How could this happen?!?!?"
"It was unrealistic for anyone to think it would go down more than that.
(And a higher rate for shorter trips is not about income distribution from rich to poor -- it's about taking money from tourists and business traveleers and putting it into the local economy)."
Why is it unrealistic for DC to have rates similar to other cities? Why should we continue to benefit longer trips at the cost of shorter trips?
You keep on suggesting that the only people who take short trips are visitors and travelers, but you have yet to demonstrate why that would be the case. I take cabs rides under two miles all the time. Normally it's because I'm working late and don't want to wait for the Metro and then a bus to take me home. Just as DC residents might want a cab to take them home from Adams Morgan or U st., etc.
And besides, wouldn't the most likely cab ride a tourist or business traveler take be the one from an airport? National is about 5 miles from downtown DC. And Dulles is obviously a very long trip. If you're so hellbent on gouging tourists and business travelers, why not make those trips more expensive instead?
The end result is that we shouldn't favor one type of trip over another because it's impossible to know who is benefiting and who is hurt by such a system.
You seem to care only about the cabbies bottom line; I believe that they've been subsidized for too long. There are too many cabs in DC as it is. If a $2.50-$3.00 drop flag fare pushes some out, all the better.
The pickup charge is obscene. Yet the per-mile charge is low. So what? It basically has the same problem as the zone system: short trips are a rip-off compared to long trips. But who takes cabs on long trips?
Check out: http://www.schallerconsult.com/taxi/fares1.htm
The highest pickup charge in the entire country (until now) is $3.20 in Las Vegas. Clearly, the Mayor is backing down at some level to cab's desire to earn more money than any other cab drivers in the country.
On the plus side, the fuck-you factor of the zone boundaries will be gone, as will the confusion about zones in general since nobody ever really understood them.
Overall, I'd say the net is positive, but not as much as it should have been. I don't see it dramatically changing the general state of DC cabs being a rip-off compared to the rest of the country: the short trips are still going to be way too expensive.
Has anyone compared the cab rates for various cities taking into account the physical size of the city? I've always been under the impression that area wise, DC is really small. To me, the high pick up/low mileage combination would make more sense in a larger city (like LA), where the trips are truly likely to be longer. Of course I understand that cabs often go outside of the dc city limits, but for the average trip, it doesn't seem like we're talking about an area nearly as large as LA or Chicago.
The reason Las Vegas' pickup charge is so high is because the airport is so close to the Strip. The cheapest cab ride to the airport I've ever had my extensive travels was from my hotel to the airport in Las Vegas -- something like $7.
$4 base fare and additional passenger surcharges are ridiculous. A ride for two people from Dupont to Logan, for example, shouldn't be any more than $5, but here we are still around $7-$8 (depending on which time you ride). Factor in a tip and it becomes an $8-$10 ride for about a mile.
Guess I'll keep doing what I've always done: walk.
To: jim@grahamwone.com , DCTC@dc.gov, adrian.fenty@dc.gov
Subject: Proposed Taxi Fare Structure
Hello Counselmember Graham, Mayor Fenty, Commissioner Swain:
Please reevaluate the proposed taxi fare structure. This proposal is outrageous.
First, a $4 drop fee is ridiculous. I get 1/6 of a mile for $4? That's crazy. Please realign this to something closer to that of other cities, like $2.50 or $3.
Secondly, the rush-hour surcharge has to go. With distance and time meters, rush hour doesn't matter anymore. If the cab gets stuck in traffic, then the quarters start dropping because the cab is not moving more than 10 MPH.
Finally, please remove any additional person charges. An extra passenger adds practically nothing to the cost of providing the trip, so why should get extra money for it?
Switching to meters but keeping a ridiculously high drop fee (over half the cost of a one-zone trip) and all the other add-on fees will result in the worst-of-both-worlds scenario, where the cab drivers hate the meters and the public hates the costs.
And while we're at it, can we add enhanced pollution controls to the regulations? And incentives for alternative fuel vehicles? Perhaps adding a few natural gas or hydrogen fueling stations around the city? The current fleet of cabs is made up of rotting hulking monsters that are sullying the air we all breathe.
Please, let's be reasonable and rational and adopt a system similar to other cities without high drop rates and crazy additional fees, and use this as an opportunity to increase the quality of our cabs.
Thanks
Michael Eichler
Ward 1
"You keep on suggesting that the only people who take short trips are visitors and travelers, but you have yet to demonstrate why that would be the case."
I never said only visitors take short trips, but on average they feel the impact of the high drop rate the most. And I think that's a good thing.
And I have checked out the Schaller consulting page -- if you do the math, you'll see that DC's rates for what they call "short trips" are just above the median for the major cities they list, and the rates for "average" and "long" trips are near the bottom. And if you consider the distance that's included in the drop rate, LA, Seattle, Las Vegas, and St. Louis all have rates comparable to or higher than DC. Las Vegas's $3.20 only includes 1/8 mile, while LA's $2.20 only includes 1/11 mile.
And on the rush hour surcharge -- rush hour is when the difference between supply and demand is most out of whack in DC. The surcharge increases supply by encouraging more cabbies to work during rush hour, and it decreases demand by encouraging people to avoid discretionary trips during that time. (Which is the reason NY put in a $1 surcharge for the peak time between 4 and 8 p.m. -- to try to get as many cabs on the street during that time as possible.)
And I'm not a cabbie or a friend of cabbies, and I don't care just about their bottom line. But I get pissed off at people who make claims about the proposed fare structure that ignore the facts, and I think it's utterly stupid to think that the city would simultaneously change from zones to meters and totally change the economic structure of fares in the city. And I think that people who are complaining despite the fact that most of their trips will now cost less are pathetic whiners.
Also, if you're going to demand a reduction in the drop rate, you might also be logical and demand that the reduced rate include less distance, and go ahead and demand an increase in the distance rate.
Do the cabbies not understand that eliminating the zone system will encourage more people to take cabs more often? That will more than make up for the fare difference. Who here wouldn't take a $5 cab ride across town, whereas before you would never consider a cab unless you absolutely had to. In DC cabs are a luxury, like a really expensive bottle of wine or something, not like in NYC where you hop in for a few bucks, like grabbing a beer after work. It's ridiculous - lower fares = more riders = more fares = better for cabbies. Why is this so complicated.
"And I think that people who are complaining despite the fact that most of their trips will now cost less are pathetic whiners."
Why is it not possible to think the zone system was bad and the rates are too high without being a "whiner".
These are price controls put in place by the government. I think it is absolutely appropriate for people to argue over what rate the government forces upon us. And what better time to argue about it than when the rates are being established?
And that Schaller chart you keep talking about defines a short trip as 2.8 miles. I'd say most people in DC wouldn't consider a trip of 2.8 to be "short". I'd say that's a pretty average trip (for example, it'd get you from Georgetown to the Convention Center, or from Adams Morgan to Brookland, or from Capitol Hill to Dupont. I doubt many DC residents would consider these to be "short" rides). So if these rides are ones that DC riders are getting charged more than average for, isn't that worth considering? If you have to travel 5-10 miles before we start doing better than other cities, what sort of trips are those, and why should they benefit?
But even for the "short" trips on that chart, the proposed rates result in a fare that's only a little over the average. (At $9.25, it's a little more than Orlando and a little less than Atlanta.) Of the cities below us on the list, all but NY and Chicago are places where costs like fuel and insurance are lower than in DC, so it makes sense that their fares would be lower.
(NY has relatively low fares because the demand for cabs is so high and so constant that overall utilization rate is much higher than in other cities. And Chicago charges an extra $1 for a second passenger, making the average per ride a bit higher than reported on that chart.)
And I call people complaining "pathetic whiners" because most of the complaints demonstrate complete ignorance of the facts and unwillingness or inability to think logically.
Wow, I thought the rates sounded too high before I knew the sur-charges would still be in effect. This is absurd.
jonboydc: "Also, if you're going to demand a reduction in the drop rate, you might also be logical and demand that the reduced rate include less distance, and go ahead and demand an increase in the distance rate."
You say this as if it would be a problem. I would welcome such a change from what is proposed. What possible reason is there for the fare structure to be so dramatically different from the rest of the country?
How about instead of all this stupid debate, we just let the free market solve the problem? Let Arlington, PG and MoCo cabs operate in DC.
Arlington: $2.75 drop, $1.60 per mile
PG: $3.00 Drop, $1.75 per mile
MoCo: $4.00 drop, $1.60 per mile
MoCo's rates are interestingly almost exactly the same as DC's proposed rates. MoCo is also fabulously wealthy and way bigger than DC.
And besides, wouldn't the most likely cab ride a tourist or business traveler take be the one from an airport? National is about 5 miles from downtown DC. And Dulles is obviously a very long trip. If you're so hellbent on gouging tourists and business travelers, why not make those trips more expensive instead?
Interstate fares are set by WMATC, which is dominated by suburban jurisdictions. Fenty could no more set fares for those trips than he could flap his arms and fly.
$4 base fare and additional passenger surcharges are ridiculous. A ride for two people from Dupont to Logan, for example, shouldn't be any more than $5, but here we are still around $7-$8 (depending on which time you ride).
According to Mapquest, from
Sorry, not sure what happened before.
$4 base fare and additional passenger surcharges are ridiculous. A ride for two people from Dupont to Logan, for example, shouldn't be any more than $5, but here we are still around $7-$8 (depending on which time you ride).
According to Mapquest, 1 Dupont Circle to 1 Logan Circle is 0.84 miles. You get the first sixth of a mile with the flag drop, so that leaves 0.67 miles, or four distance increments, or $1. That puts us up to $5. During rush hour, $6. And that's it. Remember, the extra passenger fare doesn't kick in until the *third* passenger.
In Chicago, by way of comparison, an 0.84 mile trip begins with a flag drop of $2.25, which gets you a ninth of a mile, leaving 0.73 miles, or seven distance increments, or $1.40. Then, since Chicago's shared rider charge begins with the second passenger, that's another $1.00, or $4.65. And that's the total, which is pretty comparable to the proposed non-rush hour rate, and I'm not yet considering the wait time charges, which work out to $15/hour in DC but $20/hour in Chicago.
I'm no fan of the proposed rates, but I think a lot of people are really going ballistic over proposed rates that generally average out to something that is at worst not terribly different from what you'd see elsewhere. (Then again, I can't imagine regularly taking a cab for less than a mile.)
"You say this as if it would be a problem. I would welcome such a change from what is proposed. What possible reason is there for the fare structure to be so dramatically different from the rest of the country?"
I was responding to Michael Eichler's e-mail to the Mayor, et al., in which he demands reductions without adressing the fact that other parts of the structure are cheaper than other jurisdictions.
Also, the evidence shows that the proposed rate system is not "dramatically different" from the rest of the country. At least 4 other large cities have drop rates that, accounting for the distance included in the drop rate, are equivalent to or more than DC's. And a comparison of various trip lengths shows that except for the very shortest trips, the cost of a trip in DC falls pretty much in the middle of the pack for those large cities. (Admittedly, for trips a mile or less, DC is in the top three by cost). And a number of those cities have surcharges not so different from the ones charged here.
I do agree that a comparison with the rates charged in the surrounding counties makes sense. (Interestingly, every county around DC charges for additional passengers and for luggage handled by the driver). Those rates are generally lower than DC. (DC is $5.25 for the first mile, $1.50/additional mile, MoCo is $5.20 first mile, $1.60/additional mile, PG is $3.00 first mile, $1.75/additional mile, Arlington is $3.95 first mile, $1.60/additional mile). But I don't know if fuel and insurance are significantly lower in those jurisdictions. (It's also possible that taxis in those places have lower fuel costs because they do more highway and less stop-and-go driving resulting in better mileage).
The DC Taxi cab system is not a job subsidy program.
NYC Taxi Medallions cost over $350,000!!! Those cabbies have a very high cost to enter the market. They also have to get new cabs that meet aesthetic standards. DC cabbies have nothing comparable.
So why, DCist commentors, should DC rates be higher then NYC?
DC Mayor Adrian Fenty has proposed the highest fares in the country for the new DC taxicab meter fares his administration has mandated. With a base rate of $4.00 for the first 1/6 of a mile, the new fares far exceed taxi rates in any other major city in the country.
The fares proposed by the Mayor will ensure that DC residents and the tourists that drive our economy will pay higher taxi fares than anyone else in the country--higher than New York, Boston, Philadelphia, and Los Angeles. Cabs across the river in Arlington will cost 25% less than DC cabs. It doesn't make any sense.
According to a study conducted by the City of 21 cabs which were outfitted with pilot meters in 2005 and 2006, meter fares with a $4.00 drop rate were nearly $1.00 higher on average than the antiquated zone fares. The $4.00 drop rate ensures that a mile-long trip for a DC resident will cost at least $5.25 during off-peak hours and $6.25 during rush hour. The same trip for a resident of Arlington would cost only $3.95.
Additionally, the Mayor's proposed fares, while already high, will rise exponentially during traffic. Rush hour costs will include an additional $1.00 fee per trip on top of a $.25 per minute idle cost when stopped at lights or during traffic jams. A 2005 study from the AAA notes that DC has the third-worst traffic congestion in the country.
The rush hour surcharge is entirely irrational; we will already pay additional fees for sitting idle in traffic. Why should the cabbie make additional money at residents' expense because there is traffic?
DC residents are urging the Mayor to rescind his ill-advised proposal and instead impose a $2.50 base fare, in line with other major cities like New York, as well as in line with fees Virginia residents pay for cabs.
Don't let the Taxicab Commission screw DC residents again!
Please sign our online petition:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/DCTaxiRates/