November 5, 2007
The Taxi Meter Fare Backlash Begins
We knew it was just a matter of time, but sure enough, there in our inbox this morning was the first announcement of an online petition begging D.C. Mayor Adrian Fenty to change his mind about the $4 taxicab flag drop fee.
A group calling themselves D.C. Residents for Reasonable Taxi Fares claim that the fares proposed by Mayor Fenty will mean that taxi fares in D.C. will be the highest in the country--higher than New York, Boston, Philadelphia, and Los Angeles. They also point out that taxicabs in Arlington have a $2.50 flag drop, which could lead to confusion, and decry the continuation of additional rush hour fees when customers will also begin paying $.25 a minute when the taxi is idle in traffic.
So how much more would the Mayor's $4 flag drop actually cost D.C. taxi riders? Washingtonian spent a little time calculating the differences for a handful of average trips and found a mixed bag -- some trips, like from just below Dupont Circle to Georgetown, would end up being cheaper, though many others, including one from Dupont to Union Station, would end up being several dollars more expensive.
The online petition can be found here. Will you sign it?
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yep, just did. thanks for the tip!
My major contention is that you still need to pay for extra passengers. Why does it matter how many people are in the cab? Does it cost more money for a driver to deliver three people to the same destination in one trip as it does to deliver one person?
The extra charge for additional passengers kills the incentive to share cabs. I don't take cabs by myself, but when I can split the fare with others in my party, I'm more likely to take a cab.
Any able-bodied person taking a cab from Dupont to Union Station, when the red line can get you there in less time, deserves to pay through the nose.
the name of this group gave me hope but, alas, they still support a meter. just a cheaper meter. this new system, no matter how cheap the base rate is, will be a disaster, in my view.
In general, I don't see the big deal. I'm welcoming metered taxies in DC.
But I do agree that rush hour premiums PLUS paying per minute is excessive, given that I'll already be paying more because traffic will make it take longer to get somewhere. Maybe there's a point about the different flag drop cost across the river and here -- but I'm not sure.
The group seems a bit opaque for having a name that asserts some real solidarity with the alleged indignation of some of my fellow citizens feel over this.
The cheap trip from Dupont to Union Station was one of the few benefits of the zone system. Makes perfect sense that it would cost more with a meter.
Seems to me this high initial charge is needed to keep meter fares close to the price of zone fares -- doesn't that say something about the zones? (what it tells me is the zone system is ridiculously expensive unless you're going from one end of Zone 1 to the other)
I find it fascinating that those who were so vehemently in favor of meters now are complaining about the cost. There was no question that replacing the zone system with meters would drive prices higher. The only question was how much higher.
Took a cab from the 'Zards game home to Adams Morgan on Saturday night and the cabbie, instead of going underneath Thomas Circle on Mass. went through the circle and therefore sat at two additional lights...I wanted to inform him that the meters weren't in effect yet and offer a few choice words about his decision-making, but there was a sleeping child in the car...I can see this happening more and more with meters.
Don't worry about it so much! You'll have just settled a bar tab of $90 worth of Red Bull and vodkas, you'll lose track of the change from your $20 bill before you get inside your house and you'll probably leave your phone behind in the cab anyway.
snowprincess - uh, no, meters were supposed to make it cheaper, so that the cabbies couldn't rip you off as easily.
snowprincess: In going from one system to another, I think most people expected that there would be some tradeoffs. Most people expected there to be some sort of rush hour fee, that short trips would be cheaper while long trips would cost more, etc. However, I'm not sure how we could've anticipated a flag drop fee that is much higher than any city I can think of, a plan that double charges for rush hour, and a pretty half baked explanation for it all. Even working from the general understanding that the DC govt fucks everything up, I was still surprised (but only a little bit).
Anyone that doesn't take metro from Union Station to Dupont deserves to get ripped off?
What about if your stop is, say, 10 blocks from the Dupont station? And you aren't in the best of health? Or if you have a lot of luggage?
As I said, any able-bodied person who takes a cab deserves it. And if your stop is 10 blocks from the Dupont station, you aren't really in Dupont anymore, yah? But don't worry, the mentally disabled can qualify for Metro Access rides, too.
The fact that about 10% of the cabbies in the city know where they're going is going to make meters much more expensive than the zone system. Factor in stuff like what happened to adamsmorgan, and you're in for a $20 trip wherever you go.
$1.50 discourages some people from sharing a cab? Seriously? Or am I missing something. Didn't seem to discourage cab sharing in the zone system, which also has the extra passenger fee.
That said, I do agree the $4 drop rate is a bit steep.
"As I said, any able-bodied person who takes a cab deserves it."
there are not enough metro station for this to be true, aids cannon. if this were nyc, i'd agree with you. but its dc. with its handful of stops that hardly scratch the surface of all the interesting, worthwhile places in DC you could go.
$4 is way too high. Either the Mayor is starting the bidding really high and going to adjust downward after hearing from us or he is throwing the taxis a HUGE bone for supposedly hurting them by switching to meters.
What a bunch of wimps and whiners. It costs at least $6.50 to put their sorry butts in a cab right now. The Washingtonian and everyone else comparing zone-to-meter fares comes up with plus-or-minus loose change. BFD. Who is this "organization" anyway, besides someone with lots of time to waste?
I agree the $4 drop is too high, but hope the silver lining to this rain cloud is that higher fares will reduce demand enough to lower the number of cabbies driving like mr. magoo.
I, for one, like the option of taking Metro from Dupont to Union Station, then taking a cab the rest of the way home (in near NE). Right now, there's no incentive to do so, since Union Station to my place is two zones, same as from Dupont. I never really expected taxi prices would drop, overall, due to meters, but I do like that they'll be more fair, and easier to interpret--the fare is displayed right there in bright red LEDs. Now, it's always a bit of a mystery.
I think the flag drop is high, but not criminal. I don't mind about the double-dip during rush hour, because as several people pointed out on the other thread, NYC double-dips to make sure that cabbies have more incentive to work during rush hour when people most want cabs.
I ran a few comparisons and the only trip we ever take that's more expensive with meters is the occasional trip home from the Kennedy Center. That's assuming the cabbie doesn't argue with us and try to charge us three zones instead of two (which we usually end up just paying, but with no tip on top of it). All the other cab rides we ever take will be cheaper, even with the high flag drop.
Also that petition just cites "a study." What study? I don't believe anybody who doesn't show their sources. *yawn* Weh, weh, we're getting robbed and offering subsidies to cabbies, weh, weh.
What does the flag drop cost in NYC? Chicago? LA? elsewhere?
Why do people think that the DC Zone system is superior to a meter? Did DC have it right all this time while many of the other major U.S. cities had it wrong? Did we know something they didn't? I'm confused about why we think the zone was soooooo superior to a meter and yet many other major cities didn't adopt that system. And some of those cities have worse rush hour traffic then we do.
Cab drivers not knowing their way is an entirely different topic of discussion.
Those unfamiliar with zones (out of towners and residents alike) are constantly crying foul at cab charges. Late night drivers more often resemble extortionist than drivers. For cabs to respond to meters negatively even before the rate was announced implies two things: the zone system has been systematically overcharging, meaning Fenty could never appropriately represent the same rates with a meter, and that cabs were well aware of this. Which scenario is more likely? Cab drivers are in protest on behalf of their clients or they are in protest because they know all fares will be more fairly administered & tracked? The real questions that need to be asked about the zone system: Is, for example, the 1-zone/$6.50 charge based on the distance low-limiter or the high-limiter? Assuming we are trying to be equitable as a governing body, if that fee is based on a low-limiter, then is it fair to the charge someone who crosses two-zones in 5 blocks $2.20 dollars more to make up the difference for someone who rides 20 blocks but does not cross into another zone? Conversely, if the high-limiter, is it fair to ask the 5-block/one-zone ride to 'cover' for the 20-block/one-zone? Hands-down, meters are a better way to proceed.
Twitch asked:
Provided the forum software doesn't kill my formatting again:
Units accrue both by time and distance. Boston has the lowest flag drop charge and almost the highest cost per mile, Las Vegas charges the most for time, and Washington has the highest flag drop and the lowest cost per mile and per hour.
So Dupont is only the areas within 10 blocks of the Metro?
And what about safety? A person walking multiple blocks in Dupont (or any other DC neighborhood) has a good chance of being jacked late at night, especially if they are carrying a bunch of luggage.
But the bigger issue isn't just "Union Station to Dupont". It's city-wide. And metro service just doesn't cover the city adequately. There are tons of DC residents that don't live close enough to a metro stop to be able to use one all to the time, to the exclusion of cabs.
And, of course, Metro doesn't run 24 hours a day.
Hell, if you head 10 blocks west of the dupont metro... you're in Georgetown! And apparently, the cab fare to there will be CHEAP!
Isnt every intersection in DC supposed to be within 4 blocks of a bus line?
Cabs are optional. If you dont like the amount that it costs, you really dont have to use them.
I don't know where people get this idea that cabs don't know the city layout. I have never had this problem, and have even learned route tricks from them.
1. Not sure if the bus thing is true
2. If it was, three blocks of being close to a bus line does not equal being three blocks of a bus stop
3. busses also don't run 24 hours, and I wouldn't wait at some stops for more than 20 minutes in daylight.
The underlying real issue here is total cab reform. If we are paying Manhattan prices we need to have decent, clean cabs. That means requiring that cabs be only so many years old, etc.
This is a prime time to do total cab reform. But, this is DC, so it'll take citizens demanding reform to get it.
Take the usual effectiveness of online petitions, and assign a value. Let's call it 0.
Now, multiply that effectiveness by the number of people who sign the petition as "Anonymous," and assigning a fractional value of 1/x-1, where x=the number of anonymous signatures.
You have now calculated the effectiveness of this online petition.
The zone system was always one of those things that I considered a reward for being a District resident for a long time, kinda like navigating the Rock Creek Parkway. When you first move here or are visiting, you're completely befuddled, but after you take the time to get the hang of it, it's easy to game the system and you benefit from others' follies. On the Parkway, I can get from the Hill to Adams Morgan in a breeze while a virginian takes blazed path of 14th St., leaving me extra lane space on my secret journey. In a cab, I knew that I needed to leave work on the east side of 21st St. so I could save the extra zone that it would run me on the other side. If I got dropped off at 2nd and Independence SE to get home instead of riding the extra three blocks, I could save another zone. I was kinda okay with out-of-towners making those mistakes and helping subsidize my taxi fares.
Under the old system, if you knew the rules you could easily win every argument with a cabbie, and I frequently did. Now when he takes the wrong turn or isn't listening to WTOP to find the traffic jam, I'm stuck paying for his mistake.
In the end, I can be okay with meters if and only if they drop the multiple-passenger rule. I'm even fine with them having a rush hour surcharge if they drop that...encourage more people to share a ride to drop congestion. While fedward points out that DC will have the lowest per-mile and per-hour rate, putting two of your friends in the car to get to that happy hour in Adams Morgan will quickly change that calculation.
For what it's worth, yet another perspective on cabbing in DC:
1) The current system is broken. I travel every other week for work and - in the 18+ months I've lived here - I have *never* had the exact same cab fare to/from R. Reagan Nation on two separate occasions. No exaggeration. Sure, there are are valid variations for inclement weather and traffic but I'm talking about inconsistencies of a larger magnitude i.e. cab fares to and from the same two destinations ranging from $17 to $35. A few of my drivers (e.g. those arguing for $27+ fares) have simply been corrupt, but the vast majority simply weren't clear on how much they should actually charge me. That's not a good situation for drivers or passengers.
2) A meter system will go a long way towards improving the current situation by creating some transparency. The greatest benefit of the new system has to be an increase in comfort for tourists, who make up no small contribution to our economy yet cannot possibly decipher the zone system. Those of us living close to current zone borders will greatly benefit as well. Even when I lived in a poor, developing country in Asia, passengers always demanded the clarity a meter provides. Seriously. They'd kick a driver's ass if he refused to switch on the meter. Why DC residents have allowed the zone system to continue for so long is an absolute mystery to me.
3) The proposed flag drop rate is ridiculous. DC pride aside, any DC price that surpasses NYC prices deserves scrutiny. I'm sure that local cab drivers are nervous about the new system but I hope they'll come to recognize that many residents will be more likely to take cabs going forward if they can feel confident that they'll get an honest rate and not worry that they'll be screwed by a zone system that penalizes those of us who are unfortunate enough to live a few blocks past an arbitrary boundary. I vote for a cap that says DC flag drop rates can be no more than x% greater than VA and MD. Who would take a DC cab from the airport otherwise?!?
I think my biggest complaint is not the rush hour surcharge nor the $1.50 for extra passengers (which under the proposed system only kicks in after the 2nd passenger FYI), it's the proposed drop off policy. Per the regulation:
"801.7 In cases where more than one passenger enters a taxicab at the same time on a prearranged basis (group riding) bound for different destinations, in addition to the
applicable charges set out in this section, the fare shall be charged as follows:
Whenever a passenger gets out, the fare shall be paid, the meter shall be reset, and the
last passenger shall pay the remaining fee."
So, with a $4 flag drop, that amounts to $4 per extra drop off since the meter keeps getting reset along the way. Even if they are two blocks from one another. Throw in another $1.50 when you get over 2 passengers and the incentive to share is less and less if the other person/people you are riding with is out of your way in the slightest. The mayor should be driving a policy that helps reduce congestion in our city by encouraging group sharing of taxis. But he seems to be more interested with keeping our taxi fares artificially inflated to satisfy the taxi driver outcry. Why can't the mayor just have a system where the last person pays what is on the meter, just like every other city with meters does it?
OK... So to put this argument to rest... I built a website - www.cabfee.com
It lets you figure out what the new meter system will cost you... If it's a heck of alot more... say so.
Here's the thing... it should cost about the same. Now the $4.00 flag drop is high, but with the $.25 rate it equals out. The problem is all the surcharges associated with the fare. I think one of the real issues with the zone system has been that cab drivers have been charging whatever they please and riders have just to taken it.
Another danger is that this incentivizes drivers to pick up fewer long distance fares in favor of shorter ones (more flag drops)... Just think, having to hail 4 or 5 cabs until you find one willing to take you to Dulles... hurray!