February 12, 2008
Metro Considers Blue Line Split
Metro sent around a press release yesterday announcing that they were considering alternating rush hour Blue line trains between their regular route that follows the Orange line and a new route that would send them up along the Yellow line.
During weekday peak hours, six out of ten trains that originate every hour at the Blue Line Franconia-Springfield station would follow their normal course through Rosslyn and across the river to Foggy Bottom. The other four trains would instead split off at the Pentagon Station and follow the Yellow Line all the way to Greenbelt.
The plan would theoretically solve two problems: First, it would do for peak time service along the Green line what the off-peak Yellow line extension did for the same route. WMATA officials told WTOP that they've noticed increased peak time demand for destinations in the eastern parts of downtown D.C. like Gallery Place, L'Enfant, Navy Yard, or Columbia Heights. Second, it would ease the Orange/Blue line bottleneck where they meet at Rosslyn.
What do you think of the plan? Metro officials will revisit the proposal after a period of public input, especially from those of you who commute into the city from south of the Pentagon station.
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How will this affect my daily commute in my chauffeur-driven stretch Hummer?
i've seen it stated elsewhere, but wouldn't it make more sense (especially given how confused people would be with a map that shows two blue lines on it) to simply swap the ends of the blue and yellow lines. with the yellow line running from springfield to fort totten (or even greenbelt) and the blue line running from largo to eisenhower ave., wouldn't that have the same effect of getting more people from southern fairfax county up to the eastern end of downtown faster?
could we get a wmata person to tell us why that's not feasible, if they've already vetted all the options?
I'm for whatever provides the U Street/Columbia Heights/Petworth corridor with more frequent rush hour service, whether it be Blue Line or Yellow Line trains. The Green Line, with its 7 minute intervals between trains, is insufficient during rush hour. And once the Target opens up, watch out!
As a taxpayer, veteran, and necrophile, I must protest this reduction of service to Arlington National Cemetary. What am I supposed to do for my weekly fix? Take Potomac Avenue Metro to Congressional Cemetary? I don't know where those Congressmen have been!
I think there might just be another simple solution. Vary the number of blue and yellow line trains during rush hours and start a few yellow line trains at King Street only - similar to how the Red Line trains start at Grosvenor and Silver Spring occassionally. Changing the metro maps and signs posted throughout the city and the metro stops costs hundreds of thousands of dollars alone.
Also - extending the Yellow line past Mt Vernon during rush hour would be really nice as well.
While this would relieve Blue/Orange congestion at Rosslyn, I would be concerned about congestion from Mt. Vernon Sq - L'Enfant Plaza with three lines running through at peak headways.
Overall, though, I think it's a great idea.
Why not just run the yellow line to Ft. Totten or Greenbelt full-time and increase the number of trains while decreasing (slightly) the number of blue line trains? Wait, I guess that wouldn't result in quite as much chaos and confusion as their plan, never mind.
I don't think you'd want to decrease the number of blue line trains; from what I understand pretty much every Blue/Orange line train is packed to the gills. The main impetus is to relieve congestion in Rosslyn and add service in the Gallery Place-Fort Totten corridor.
I agree that this would be great for the Green/Yellow north of L'Enfant - I come in from (and go home to) Braddock every day on the Yellow. Honestly, at rush hour I never have to wait, and often have a seat. But once we get to L'Enfant, for the next 3 stops at least, it's a clusterf***k.
"could we get a wmata person to tell us why that's not feasible, if they've already vetted all the options?"
If you read the article, they are concerned about Blue->Yellow transfers overloading the Yellow Line. I believe the real goal is to increase the number of trains going over the 14th St Bridge, and decrease the number of trains using the Rosslyn tunnel. Simply swapping around the endpoints of the lines doesn't seem like it would alleviate the problem.
"Vary the number of blue and yellow line trains during rush hours and start a few yellow line trains at King Street only - similar to how the Red Line trains start at Grosvenor and Silver Spring occassionally."
I'm not sure I understand your idea. The Red Line starts at Grosvenor/SS because of a shortage of cars. The shorter runs are necessary to maintain rush hour headways. This is also why the Yellow Line doesn't go to Ft. Totten during peak. Doing this on the Yellow Line would have shorter headways, but wouldn't solve the Blue->Yellow transfer issue.
"Why not just run the yellow line to Ft. Totten or Greenbelt full-time and increase the number of trains while decreasing (slightly) the number of blue line trains?"
That would be a double whammy for the end of Blue Line riders. They'd have fewer trains, and they'd still have to transfer.
So this means that from Mt Vernon Square trains would (potentially) run south, alternating:
Green (Branch Ave)
Yellow (Huntington)
Blue (Franconia/Springfield via Pentagon)
and from King Street going north:
Blue (Largo)
Yellow (Mt Vernon Sq)
Blue (Greenbelt via Pentagon)
Am I understanding this correctly? Seems kind of confusing, but if the signs work correctly, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out. And, hey, it would make my commute easier.
I think the plan sounds pretty good. I live at Pentagon City, so the more straight shots into the city, the better for me. I just hope a big confusing mess isn't created in trying to indicate which trains are going where (especially for tourists, etc. b/c I'm not very patient in giving instructions). Also, it seems pretty ridic. if ALL the signs are going to need replaced.
As someone who lives on the Green Line, I'm opposed to the idea. When I take the subway downtown from Southwest, there are already problems with being stuck in the tunnel north of Waterfront while waiting for a Yellow Line train at L'Enfant. Having a second train on that same cross-Potomac route will only make the delays that much worse.
This proposal might help with Green Line service levels from L'Enfant on north, but it would hurt Green Line service south of L'Enfant, which is already execrable -- we don't even get the Yellow Line off-peak extension -- and likely to only get worse as Navy Yard becomes an increasingly popular destination.
According to the presentation materials at http://www.wmata.com/board_gm/board_docs/021408_4BBlueLinerealignment.pdf it looks like the max capacity Metro has on a route is 26 trains per hour. This is what currently goes through the Rosslyn tunnel. There are 22 trains peer hour on the green/yellow at L'Enfant. So this would keep capacity in the Rosslyn tunnel the same, but it would make it easier for the four extra orange line trains because fewer merges required. Also, it would increase the north/south trains at L'Enfant to the max of 26 trains per hour as well. It will suck for people commuting from Crystal City to Ballston by adding about 6 minutes to their commute, but it should also help out more people commuting into downtown.
I predict an 18-month feasibility study costing $2.4 million followed by a decision not to change anything.
I predict an 18-month feasibility study costing $2.4 million followed by a decision not to change anything.
I say we submit something when the RFP comes out.
I want to be paid in euros. And I want a corner office. And no porn filters on the computers. If we're going to submit this RFP, then I want my work standards to be clear right from the start.
Ok -- so we now are going to have to explain this like 'light blue trains run to Largo' and 'dark blue trains run to greenbelt' ?? Or what about Sky Blue and Navy blue or we go with pink line or something entirely new for this configuration change.
The entire point of wrapping the blue line along its current route was to get commuters to the Pentagon. Has anyone considered a long term solution of expanding the capacity of the Rosslyn Tunnel? Of course not, because we've forgotten how to build infrastructure in this country.
This new plan sounds like a big old mess.
The yellow line is already going from Pentagon City in that director so why dont they just send out more Yellow trains and have every other one go all the way to greenbelt? Seems like that would be a lot less confusing for anyone.
So basically they're saying "less trains = less congestion"? Duh.
This planned is flawed to begin with. Next suggestions please.
Rosslyn is a serious problem in the morning. Riding the Blue line in is atrocious. You wait for 5-10 minutes for a train and then stop in between every stop.
That would be a double whammy for the end of Blue Line riders. They'd have fewer trains, and they'd still have to transfer.
Well, only those who got on at Springfield and Van Dorn would be affected - they would have to transfer to the yellow line, which they do right now. This would instead help people headed to downtown avoid the Rosslyn tunnel and still keep the map relatively simple.
"Of course not, because we've forgotten how to build infrastructure in this country the Virginia legislature."
Fixed that for you
I see a couple problems. First, would running THREE lines on the same track be beneficial? With the yellow line now running to Ft. Totten during rush hour, where would we squeeze in the blue line?
Second, having another blue line would be awfully confusing.
I think a better option would be a "shuttle." Perhaps having a new color, like the Gray Line, that begins at the end of the Blue Line and then splits off at the Pentagon and stops at Gallery Place. It would speed up access to downtown for blue-liners without adding unneeded strain on the green/yellow line trains or forcing them to switch (on no, a switch) at the Pentagon. Then, keep the yellow line to Ft. Totten at all times.
And what is the hub-bub about? I live right downtown and I switch TWICE everyday to get to work. It's only 5 stops, and I take 3 trains. Can't they just switch at the Pentagon?
They don't really say it well, but the point of this is to be able to send more orange line trains through the Rosslyn tunnel. You can't do that unless you re-route some blue line trains.
Honestly I think the more direct service to downtown for blue riders is just a benefit they were trying to hype up to get support for their plan. I don't think that was their initial goal.
@hmarshall: "With the yellow line now running to Ft. Totten during rush hour, where would we squeeze in the blue line?"
The yellows don't run to Ft. Totten during Rush Hour... only in off-peak. And while I'm all for more trains servicing my stop (Georgia Ave.) I can't fathom what this would do to tourists and non-regular commuters.
@jtowns: "Ok -- so we now are going to have to explain this like 'light blue trains run to Largo' and 'dark blue trains run to greenbelt' ?? Or what about Sky Blue and Navy blue"
I was thinking something like the Opal Line -- a nice pale blue with glints of yellow and green.
I'm gathering that they don't have the ability to reroute a train coming over the bridge to continue on the blue line's normal path, eh? That I could see being not terribly confusing map-wise and still speeding things up in Rosslyn, and reducing time for those who need to go from say Pentagon City to Capitol South.
If this is the best they can come up with (I am still waitin' on the damn jet pack) why not start numbering trains like our country-bumpkin cousin to the north.
Then you'd know that the Blue 7 line goes to Fort Totten while the Blue 4 goes to wherever the hell Blue line trains now go to die.
I'm gathering that they don't have the ability to reroute a train coming over the bridge to continue on the blue line's normal path, eh?
Correct, it's one way only.
For that matter, nor can Orange line trains be routed down toward Arlington Cemetary. If you had full directional ability at these two stations Metro would have more options.
Perhaps having a new color, like the Gray Line, that begins at the end of the Blue Line and then splits off at the Pentagon and stops at Gallery Place.
You'd probably need to run it to at least Mt. Vernon in this scenario. Ending a line at Gallery Place doesn't make sense since there's no switch directly north or south of the station. At Mt. Vernon, trains can pull into the pocket track just like peak hour Yellow line trains do now.
I'm totally for it. It would open up a lot of much faster routes.
"because we've forgotten how to build infrastructure in this country."
amen, crappyhouse, a-fucking-men.
why can every other goddamn country in the world, from great britian down to east timor, afford to spend money on public infrastructure, but we can't?
oh yeah, the war...
"I'm gathering that they don't have the ability to reroute a train coming over the bridge to continue on the blue line's normal path, eh?"
Nope. The only place that's not on the map where trains can change lines is after McPherson Sq. on Blue/Orange to just before Farragut on Red (or vice-versa, but there's only one connector and it's on the outbound tracks). Even at the existing junctions, there aren't connectors to do moves outside of normal operation. So you couldn't run an Orange Line train from Vienna down to the Pentagon, or vice-versa. You couldn't run a train from Navy Yard down the Yellow Line, etc. These moves can be done, but require reversing or changing tracks, which is not feasible for normal operations.
Please...more direct downtown. It's mornings like today where standing out on the platform waiting 10 minutes for a yellow liner at 930 really sucks.
"it would ease the Orange/Blue line bottleneck where they meet at Rosslyn."
if by ease, they mean make it waaay worse for the Blue line and better for the already-favored Orange line. Honestly, the blue line is like the redheaded stepchild of Metro. I commute from Pentagon City to Foggy Bottom, and less trains running that route would be disastrous. We're already packed in there like sardines, and we already stop all the time to let Orange line trains go first.
To be fair to Metro, they did make more Blue line trains six-cars than they used to. But still, this plan is awful.
Nope. The only place that's not on the map where trains can change lines is after McPherson Sq. on Blue/Orange to just before Farragut on Red (or vice-versa, but there's only one connector and it's on the outbound tracks).
There's also a cross-line connection from Green to Red at Ft. Totten. However, it too is only on the outbound tracks (Trains heading to Glenmont connect to Green toward Greenbelt)
It shouldn't be a shock, but Metro has had plans to build the line connections outlined above for years. A 2001 capacity study detailed the need for these connections, among others (Pedestrian station connector at Metro Center/Gallery Place...), and set a goal of 2006 of completion. Aaaaand it's now 2008 with little to no movement on many of the items outlined back then.
Typical Metro, but nonetheless this has been on the books for a while.
A pedestrian tunnel between Metro Center/Gallery Place would be awesome. I support this 101%.
"There's also a cross-line connection from Green to Red at Ft. Totten."
I had considered that a connection that's on the map. But yeah, those capital projects have been sitting forever. I don't really consider it unique to Metro, though. Most transit agencies have similar wish lists, and similar problems with capital funding.
I think this has to do with BRAC more than anything else. With 10's of thousand jobs moving next to Franconia Metro. Metro is trying to reduce the number of transfers for those who have to connect to the yellow now to get to Crystal City. Sure it is a little early, but it is a good time to test it out.
Can I use this space to vent about the yellow line?
During rush hour when a yellow and a green are approaching l'Enfant at about the same time, why does the yellow always get to go first? The yellow only drops people off from there to Mt Vernon Sq, the green to Greenbelt also picks people up. By letting the yellow go first green line riders have to deal with the yellow line 'turning around' which slows down the green until Shaw and makes for a very stop/n/go trip. If the yellow went second it wouldn't be in anyones way, so to speak, and both lines would flow more smoothly.
Does anyone else notice this? Is WMATA reading?
They should just call it a yellow line extension since what they are saying is that they are going to extend the yellow line to Greenbelt and instead of going to Eisenhower or Huntington, it will split off and go to Van Dorn and Franconia. It won't be confusing at all as long as people pay attention to the end station. Since tourists don't go down there, it shouldn't impact them at all.
Well I take the Yellow in, and there are several times the Yellow waits for the Green...I think it has to do more that the Green is transitioning to the Yellow Line...but I do like the yellow/green conspiracy.
Recently I've gotten on a couple of trains at Greenbelt that were marked "Yellow". I didn't stay on them to see if they stayed on the yellow line, but I liked the idea of yellow going all the way to Greenbelt
Does anyone know anything about this?
I predict an 18-month feasibility study costing $2.4 million followed by a decision not to change anything.
I predict months and months of shrill, obstinate bitchery followed by the actual implementation followed by fifteen minutes of adjustment followed by widespread acceptance.
If they're going to do this, they should just call it the Yellow Line. I propose the following distinction:
Northbound Yellow Line trains would all terminate at Greenbelt. Southbound Yellow Line trains would alternate between Huntington and Franconia-Springfield, compensating for the reduced Blue Line service between Pentagon and Franconia-Springfield, just as they've proposed that some eastbound Orange Line trains would terminate at Largo.
The only thing that's really wrong with this idea is the labeling. If they call it Yellow Line and alternate southbound termini they solve the same problem with less confusion in the core, which is where the distinctions are most important anyway.
Just call it the Silver Line, I hear that color is now available.
Does anyone know anything about this?
I bet it's a matter of positioning. I've seen just the opposite, Yellow line trains with a destination of Greenbelt, and at Greenbelt they go into the railyard at the end of the line.
So it seems Metro runs the occasional Yellow line revenue train to/from Greenbelt rather than the dreaded 'No Passengers'.
I ride Blue from Van Dorn to Farragut West every day and it's already packed to the doors. We need more trains on Blue, not less!
I ride Blue from Van Dorn to Farragut West every day and it's already packed to the doors. We need more trains on Blue, not less!
What? Cut back on Blue lines at Rosslyn? WTF? The blue lines are already running less often than orange and the trains are packed! At 5 p.m. last Thursday, I waited at Rosslyn for two filled-to-the brim Blues to pass by before I could board the following one. That was a 20 minute wait. They need MORE BLUE TRAINS going through Rosslyn.
I forgot to mention that there were two Orange trains between each Blue during my wait...