February 26, 2008
Brazen Daytime Robbery at Maggie Moo's on U Street
Two men robbed the Maggie Moo's ice cream parlor on U Street at gunpoint yesterday -- and they did it at 12:15 p.m., right in the middle of the day. DCist's Lynne Venart snapped the photo above of some of the aftermath of the crime scene.
According to WJLA, the armed suspects wore masks and physically attacked a 23-year-old employee of the store when she had trouble opening the safe. The gunmen only made off with $300 in cash, and left behind the masks they wore, which police hope will help lead to their arrests.
It's clear the store was targeted because there is only one employee working there at that time of day, but it's startling that something like this happened in the middle of the day on a busy commercial corridor like U Street. The neighborhood may have more commonly been the scene of crimes like these a decade ago, but so much has changed on that stretch of U Street since then -- the appearance of chain stores like Maggie Moo's at the retail level of a giant condo development like the Ellington as a prime example.
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Of all the different neighborhoods that have experienced gentrification over the last decade or so, U Street is still the sketchiest, by far.
"The neighborhood may have more commonly been the scene of crimes like these a decade ago, but so much has changed on that stretch of U Street since then"
In other words, I thought the scary poor people left.
U Street by far? Logan Circle, the part not directly touching Dupont, is dark and almost completely empty after dark. It is by far the gentrified neighborhood I feel least safe.
Robbing an ice cream store in the middle of winter. Some criminal masterminds there. Crime has always been in these areas and still is. You just don't hear about it through the usual media chains as its so pervasive and constant. Try getting on your local police district mailing list for more info.
Saying U Street is "sketchy" for a gentrified neighborhood is just uninformed. Get out of Fairfax and open your eyes a smidge.
This sucks, but it really doesn't mean anything in particular. Crime like this happens everywhere in the city from time to time. Remember Starbucks in Glover Park?
The gentrified neighborhood I fear the most is Mt. Pleasant. That place is scary dead after dark, probably because there's not a hell of a lot to walk to around there.
Robbing an ice cream store in the middle of winter. Some criminal masterminds there.
Wow... good point. What idiotards.
Sweet. More violence means less gentrification. Keep up the good work, U Street.
Damn, that's cold!
As a U street resident who is also young and female and working in the housing sector I take offense to the comment above about U street and its "sketchiness." I have never felt threatened or unsafe during my time in the U street neighborhood. In fact when I was living in Dupont circle i was much more regularly menaced and harassed and was attacked once on busy CT. Ave.
There are certainly other neighborhoods in DC that are currently experiencing the changes of gentrification (condo boom, retail revival etc) but continue to suffer from both violent and property crimes more so than the U street corridor. Petworth and Shaw come to mind for me.
But I think the more important thing to think about is why people still feel the need to deride certain areas of a city with derrogatory adjectives such as "sketchy" without any sort of evidence like specific examples of crime statistics or personal anecdotes of times you felt unsafe or threatened.
I mean HCE have you ever spent any time on U street aside from a saturday night getting hammered at bar nun? We have a friendly and diverse community with a rich history that is making great strides, and I wouldn't trade it to go back to the secure, boring and single faceted foggy bottom of my college days for anything.
Sheesh, they really need to get the guns, and the criminals who use them, off the streets.
Did they ever catch the equally brazen individuals who strolled into Wonderland and robbed them and their patrons at gunpoint last year?
Am I wrong to think that there seems to have been a small upsurge in daytime muggings/robberies in the 3rd Police District? I was mugged in Mount Pleasant a few weeks back at 11:30 am on a Sunday and I've heard of a few more during daylight hours. Did someone devise a new playbook for robbers in muggers around there?
BTW, the Ellington is an apartment, not a condo. I am not surprised. I remember when I lived on U Street, I think it was last Spring, a guy was shot at like 4pm in the afternoon on a weekday in front of the 7-11 at 12th and U.
I work alone in a U Street shop during weekdays, and nearly every shop on my block has been robbed at some point during the last year, and always in broad daylight. There is now a police officer who has a footbeat in the area, but he doesn't go on duty until late afternoon, and nearly all of the recent robberies have been before 2pm. It's a start, but I wouldn't be surprised if we heard many more stories like this one.
Check the local crime reports. Businesses along U Street get broken in to on a regular basis. They're always getting fax machines and goods stolen.
Guess these guys didn't get the memo. Crime's supposed to be in a perpetual state of decline downtown.
Thugs are thugs. Dumb is dumb.
Who buys a fax machine off the back of a truck? Come to think of it, who even has one any more?
This is clearly a case of two thugs who are dumb as rocks.
Also, and on a separate, "gentrification" note, let's not forget the voluminous projects still located in and around U. We well-off, educated folk aren't going to feel safe until the poor move to the suburbs. D.C. for the middle and upper class!! Suburbs for dummies! Say it with me now!
Price them out, I say -- my salary is going to keep going up and so is yours! Seriously, I worked hard, got a graduate degree, let ME live by the cool bars, museums, shops, and monuments. I'm the one paying for all of them anyway AND I don't steal shit, hurt people, or graffiti buildings. Who needs the poor in D.C.? Not me. What little slice of heaven would D.C. be if you could send your kids to public schools? Riddle me that, oh, advocate-for-the downtrodden...
D.C. for the middle and upper class!! Suburbs for dummies!
And then there's you, proving that "upper and middle class" and "dummies" are not mutually exclusive.
Douchebag.
Cute, qbert. Try a substantive response next time, though. That means, "use your words."
Here's a starting point: do you prefer to live with or without the daily threat of crime (recognizing, as context, that the poor are more likely to (a) commit crimes and (b) do so around where they live)?
You two never should've gotten married.
I'm with Coro. I won't feel safe until I can buy a lampshade made from a poor person's skin, candles made from their rendered fat, and we finally address "the Jewish question."
Praise the Baby Jesus and Allah both.
Finally, our favorite topic is back.
Let the bloodbath begin.
Oh, wait, the actual bloodbath still exists on many DC streets. In real life.
Let's go ahead and stipulate one thing.... being poor is not the same thing as being a thug. Plenty of poor people do not steal, whack others over the head, etc. Let's please not confuse the two.
But can we also go ahead and admit something else? That the vast majority of crime in DC (except of course white collar crime) comes from public housing complexes / mentalities and a thug street culture that excuses and even glorifies violence?
Oooh, let's hit one more canard. Gun control. I got three words for those that think ending gun control in DC will end violence: Richmond and New Orleans...... gun loving hubs both, both with violence similar to and sometimes worse than DC....
As for the topic at hand specifically..... a quickie scan of the crime stats for pretty much any stretch of U Street can raise your blood pressure pretty quickly. But, then, you could say that about most of DC still.
Anyone that thinks crime in DC is a thing of the past is fooling themselves.
In other words, I thought the scary poor people left.
Damn those scary poor people with their crime-ridden ways!
Monkey, I was with you until the last part. That's just not funny.
Come on, though, doesn't anyone value a safe neighborhood? Or do we like D.C. because its kinda sketchy and we can all go back home when we're done living here and brag about suriving the mean streets?
Sure, education is an answer, gun control might be one (though I'm from Texas and my fingers started burning when I typed that), and having 500 more MPD officers on the street would help, but I don't see changes coming in these areas anytime soon. What are we going to do?
The basic point here is simple: we all tend to think of U Street as a pretty safe area and are scared that someone could have a gun pushed in her face---next time it could be me (surely some of you hope so) or you. And, sure, I recognize poor does not equal criminal and probably does not equal thug, so with apologies for the hyperbole, I still wonder what anyone really hopes to do. Richmond, New Orleans, Houston, Detroit...keep 'em coming. Hillman is right in a lot of ways.
U St gentrification is sketchy? Logan Effening Circle?! Try H St NE for a truly sketchy time.
I'm with Coro. I won't feel safe until I can buy a lampshade made from a poor person's skin, candles made from their rendered fat, and we finally address "the Jewish question."
Tongue in cheek ... I get it, but c'mon -- is this really necessary?
Dude, you're the one talking about putting poor people in concentration camps. And by "concentration camps" I mean "Fairlington" and "Arlandria."
I'm with Coro. I won't feel safe until I can buy a lampshade made from a poor person's skin, candles made from their rendered fat, and we finally address "the Jewish question."
Tongue in cheek ... I get it, but c'mon -- is this really necessary?
Bar Nun is now known as Pure, fyi
Try H St NE for a truly sketchy time.
Oh hell to the yeah! Between the Belgian frites place and the children's pedicure day spa, I'm lucky if I don't get raped on the way to the bus shelter.
Too many spinsters in Fairlington for that to work.
Probably the single thing DC could do immediately to combat crime is to reform our juvenile justice system. It's no secret that a lot of this crime is done by people under 18. Why? Because they know the 'real rules' don't start until you are an adult. As it is now, you can pretty much do anything in DC short of kill or seriously hurt someone famous/political and you get very little punishment in DC.
Yes, I know it's because we're supposed to be protecting these sweet young things' permanent records.
But the system is being blatantly abused. Everybody knows it. And no one is willing to do anything about it.
We should revise the juvenile justice system so that after your first offense you start getting treated like an adult. No more chances to steal 20 cars before we prosecute you as an adult. No more allowing you to rob and mug as much as you'd like without being tried as an adult.
These 15 year olds out here are pretty damn mature. And they aren't stupid. They know they have a free ride until 18. So they have years to ply their trade (while of course refusing to go to school or otherwise prepare themselves for a legit career).
By the time they've turned 18 it's too late. They've had years of street thuggery to their credit by then.
It's an easy step that DC could take literally within a month. Word would get out in the young thug world, and a lot of this crap would stop.
"Come on, though, doesn't anyone value a safe neighborhood?"
Sure we do. That's why they are expensive. All us gentrifiers and whatnot just can't afford one in DC and don't want to live in Springfield. And poor does not equal criminal, but there's a very strong correlation between the amount of crime in a neighborhood and the average income.
Wow, this thread is really taking on a high asshole-to-posts ratio.
Arlandria? Sure it looks sketchy, but they're all too busy working so they can move up and get out. No time to waste on half-brained crime schemes, the American dream awaits. It's a sleepy subdivision compared to much of DC, and I'm not sure where your Fairlington comment comes from.
And of course longer term 'touchy-feely' solutions will help as well. Such as better education, etc. But if anyone is waiting for the DC education system to be a stunning success in cutting crime they are, well, stupid.
Anyone that thinks it's because these people can't get jobs and therefore they 'must' go criminal is naive. I guarantee you I can find you construction work and other types of work all over the DC area. It will just require sobriety, an actual effort to work, and a dropping of the entitlement attitude.
But the real social problem at work here is primarily the lack of a responsible father figure, combined with an entitlement mentality that says it's acceptable to live off of others, whether it's accepting welfare for five generations or taking things that don't belong to you by force.
Until more of those in the black urban community start to address that then the longstanding problems we have with crime and generations of poverty/dependency/laziness/street-thuggery in DC will remain unsolved. True, some have been working this issue for a long time, with some success (and I applaud their efforts), but far more are more concerned with their victim status and with getting free shit from the rest of society.
Alright, I was out of line with the "Jewish question" crack. I'd like to replace that unfortunate term with the more sensitive "economic cleansing," as in, "Historically, affluent people, black and now white, have gravitated to and economically cleansed U Street." Clearly, poor people have no business being there anymore. They're not buying tapas, they're not buying $9 Belgian ales, and they certainly can't afford tickets to Wilco. Now, can we work on relocating them via Metro? Because Vienna waits for you.
...we all tend to think of U Street as a pretty safe area and are scared that someone could have a gun pushed in her face.
If you don't feel safe where you live perhaps you should move someplace that you do.
Maybe police should use Ben's halfsmokes loaded into airguns as nonlethal weapons. With some quality stadium-style toilets nearby, that could help keep the ruffians off the streets.
Either that or maybe the entertainment industry will stop glorifying the thug life...MTV, BET, WKYS, and WPGC could just now and then play something by non-thug rappers like Pigeon John, Murs, Aceyalone, Del, etc. Not only do they skip the whole gangsta vibe, but they actually rhyme better than shitheads like MIMS and Jeezy. Lupe Fiasco just scratches the surface of what decent, conscious rap can be. But those rappers with strong character could use a little push onto the airwaves from the media moguls. It's time to get past the whole idea that slangin', ballin', and violence make you a good person.
Forget having a gun pushed in your face. You're still more likely to get a rock thrown at your head or one chucked at your bike. And that's not even counting the out-of-town bands getting harrassed. I won't feel safe until I can play my theremin in front of the Tropicana carryout.
Come to think of it, I kinda wonder what happened to the rock chuckers. Jail? Dead? Forget it, Jake. It's Columbia Heights.
This envelope was hermetically sealed and kept in a mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnalls' porch since noon today.
(holding envelope to turban)
What is an explanation for stupidity and an explanation for assholery?
Rrrrippp.
I'm from Texas and my fingers started burning when I typed that
Wow, this thread is really taking on a high asshole-to-posts ratio.
In the immortal words of Mambo Sauce, "Welcome to DC."
I'm with Coro. I won't feel safe until I can buy a lampshade made from a poor person's skin, candles made from their rendered fat, and we finally address "the Jewish question."
Tongue in cheek ... I get it, but c'mon -- is this really necessary?
Only if they're butt cheeks and Monkey didn't take it far enough. What he really meant to say was that we should KILL THE POOR and then everything would be just groovy.
I'm willing to live in any of these neighborhoods, but I refuse to live in a world where this story doesn't generate at least 20 or 30 more awkward comments about gentrification and crime.
As an awkward commenter about gentrification and crime, I'm offended by that statement. But I'm offended by most things: vulgar mudflaps, $15 hamburgers, grape flavored blunts, the declining quality of shaved panda amputee porn.
Wait, wait -- HOLD IT!!!!
When did we stop killing the poor? Nobody told me!
blah blah blah better than you blah blah blah poor residents blah blah blah classism is the new racism blah blah blah hate those different from me, but not really blah blah blah.
"are you being sarcastic, dude?"
"i don't even know anymore..."
thank goodness for dcist comments!
The comments regarding H St. NE are a little uncalled for. While there isn't as much foot traffic in the evening hours, I have not heard of armed robberies nor have I, as a resident of that area, been accosted. While this is true today, as the area does 'gentrify', it will probably draw more crime as easy targets stumble from bars at 2 AM in the morning.
So, Jim, the obligatory rip on Texas.
Ain't that just a bit simplistic and stupid?
Some of them chunky poor kids do make good eatin'. Particularly the brown ones. Sortof like pork, the other white meat, except with the subtle taste of rising rents as a tenderizer.
Every time I evict a poor family I make sure they leave one chunky kid behind, preferably handcuffed to the fridge, with the stovetop gassed up and ready....
I mean, Jezus already, poor family, your 12 year old is 300 pounds. Not really skimping on the food budget, were we?
karoot12, some friends of mine were held up at gunpoint 2 blocks south of H Street, back in October, so yes, it has happened. but I agree that it's a lot better than folks are making it out to be in this thread.
I don't like the shaved panda porn. I kinda like the 70s-style, full-on, "natural" look.
I do look at the crime stats for U Street. I also live there, HCE. I'd like to make three points here, 1) U Street is not dangerous. While violent crime is not nonexistent, it's pretty rare. Fights at clubs between acquaintances don't count. Bottom line: This sort of stick-up rarely happens around here anymore. 2) Yes, there are other gentrifying neighborhoods further East where we might be less surprised at this. But even then, do you really feel unsafe-- as opposed to merely "keeping your guard up," something we should all do everywhere at all times-- when you are walking around Shaw? If you do, you're paranoid. Nowhere in Northwest or Capitol Hill is anything like Anacostia after midnight. You sound like that Congressman who said Baghdad was safer than DC. 3) Jaime's comment is exactly right-- this is unfortunate, but it's an isolated incident. Violent crime occasionally happens everywhere. We note, with some surprise, that it happened right down the road, and then move on.
I do look at the crime stats for U Street. I also live there, HCE. I'd like to make three points here, 1) U Street is not dangerous. While violent crime is not nonexistent, it's pretty rare. Fights at clubs between acquaintances don't count. Bottom line: This sort of stick-up rarely happens around here anymore. 2) Yes, there are other gentrifying neighborhoods further East where we might be less surprised at this. But even then, do you really feel unsafe-- as opposed to merely "keeping your guard up," something we should all do everywhere at all times-- when you are walking around Shaw? If you do, you're paranoid. Nowhere in Northwest or Capitol Hill-- or H Street NE-- is anything like Anacostia after midnight. You sound like that Congressman who said Baghdad was safer than DC. 3) Jaime's comment is exactly right-- this is unfortunate, but it's an isolated incident. Violent crime occasionally happens everywhere. We note, with some surprise, that it happened right down the road, and then move on.
@hillman: the problem with treating these kids like adults is that they aren't adults, no matter how reprehensible their behavior is. hell, i was raised in a middle class suburb (horrible to admit, i know) and still made a ton of bad decisions - even with a support system of parents/teachers/etc looking out for me. i can only imagine what would have happened if i was left to my own devices like a lot of these kids are. you're right that the juvenile justice system needs to be reshaped, but not to mimic to wholly ineffective adult criminal justice system, which is nothing more than a revolving door. if these children aren't provided with tools (work ethic, self-respect, etc) to be productive and upstanding citizens, how can we expect them to live as such?
Cranky - The younger pandas go for the "landing strip" down there. Makes oral intimacy mess of a toothflossy issue.
I'm with you on the '70s classic panda porn, though.
Pandas + handlebar moustache + saxophones + astroglide = FTW
i live on U St. and i've been followed home before and accosted by a drunk homeless dude but still would never move cuz U st. is awesome.
oh and how bout G Books on U st getting robbed at shotgun-point last year http://www.insiderpages.com/b/15238472581
Goat Boy:
You have one valid point. The adult detention system is flawed. Locking so many people up for non-violent drug use offenses is stunningly stupid, for instance.
But for decades we've been trying every feel-good self-esteem "we are all special snowflakes" crap on DC's youth, and still we have a huge group of juveniles that are selfish little pricks, preying on everyone around them.
The immediate cure to a good portion of this crime is fear of actually getting caught and actual punishment. I don't care if you are 8. If you are out there mugging people and fucking with their safety then no amount of 'we are all special snowflakes' training is going to stop you from being a menace to your neighbors.
Like it or not a percentage of people aren't reachable, no matter how much money you pour into social services. The sooner we admit that they better off we are.
But that's not to say we don't implement reasonable social programs. But these in and of themselves will not solve the problems, especially when the culture of parasitic behavior is so ingrained.
16th Street Line, Anacostia is not nearly as gentrified as H St NE or U St. Not even close. Go study your crime data some more.
karoot12, I also live around near H St NE and I'm also hopeful. But it's awful. You are delusional if you think otherwise. I for one never mind walking down U St but I do not feel safe driving down H St NE.
@HamOnRye-- You misunderstand me. We're making the same point. The gentrified neighborhoods keep getting trashed by people who live in the Commonwealth as being high-crime, as if they are just like Anacostia. But to say that U Street is "sketchy" is ignorant.
16th St:
According to MPD within 1500 feet of 1200 U St there were 9 robberies with a gun, 11 more robberies without a gun, 8 assaults with deadly weapon, 55 thefts from auto, and 32 stolen autos.
Within the last 60 days.
That's not even counting the ones not reported (underreporting of crime in DC is pretty common).
I'd say that's sketchy.
"U St gentrification is sketchy? Logan Effening Circle?! Try H St NE for a truly sketchy time."
I have lived north of H street for several years.
I never had a problem.
I feel more safe on H street than U street.
Why?
I have no idea.
Maybe being familiar with your own ghetto is more conforting than being in someone else's ghetto.
Its all ghetto.
Just different ghetto.
Like it or not a percentage of people aren't reachable, no matter how much money you pour into social services.
I read an article about a college football coach years ago and he was asked what his graduation goal was and he said 100%. When the journalist asked if that was unrealistic, etc. the coach told him to go out to the practice field and pick which kids didn't deserve his best effort at helping them get through college.
So while I see your point, what percentage of our population are we willing to just throw away? More importantly who gets to decide the number, how we evaluate who fits the criteria of being irredeemable, and what we do with those people after we decide they're a lost cause?
These kind of brazen daytime attacks are not uncommon for U Street area. For example, men wearing ski masks and carrying shotguns bust into the clothing store Pop on 14th Street in a similar daytime robbery.
Before she died, I remember talking with Noi, the owner of Go Mama Go, about how she and other area busineses BEGGED for a beat officer--but police do not want to get out of their cars and walk the streets.
It's sad that considering the 100,000s of thousands of dollars these new stores give the city annually in taxes, they cannot receive a proper police response.
Nothing like a posting about crime and gentification to get DCist really fired up.
100 posts? Let's go for it!
I thought U St sketchiness was in a protected status to ensure that the LNS crowd stayed away.
Hillrat:
I've got three I'd say are unreachable. The three of DC's finest youth that stuck a gun next to my nuts, just for shits and giggles.
It's not like you are picking kids at random and denying them resources. It's more like you see these little shits coming up, committing more and more crimes, and at some point you have to admit that your self-esteem and 'aren't we all special' training is pointless.
DC has tried it the 'they are just misunderstood wee ones that we haven't thrown enough money at' way for decades.
It ain't working.
I'm not saying we quit social service and outreach. I'm saying as it's been administered in DC it's not only a joke, it's counterproductive.
I can completely sympathize with those who have pointed out some of the social ills facing DC.
After all, just last week our Whole Foods was out of half and half. On a Saturday! In every size!!! I mean, psha, I couldn't even buy it in a size I'll never consume before it goes bad! My wife Bootsie (no relationship to the bass player, I can assure you) was miffed to say the least. Good golly! But you really can't be mad, what with the fine selection of cheeses they make available. I mean, where else are you going to get a Danish Blue Castello without the hassle of heading all the way to Georgetown and coping with the great unwashed horde, assembled to gawk covetously at the latest A/X and Diesel fashions? Notwithstanding, I'm back to Pearson's for vino, as I've found better pricing on syrahs and better selection on pinot noirs, but alas . . . there I go, off on a tangent again.
I can completely sympathize with those who have pointed out some of the social ills facing DC.
After all, just last week our Whole Foods was out of half and half. On a Saturday! In every size!!! I mean, psha, I couldn't even buy it in a size I'll never consume before it goes bad! My wife Bootsie (no relationship to the bass player, I can assure you) was miffed to say the least. Good golly! But you really can't be mad, what with the fine selection of cheeses they make available. I mean, where else are you going to get a Danish Blue Castello without the hassle of heading all the way to Georgetown and coping with the great unwashed horde, assembled to gawk covetously at the latest A/X and Diesel fashions? Notwithstanding, I'm back to Pearson's for vino, as I've found better pricing on syrahs and better selection on pinot noirs, but alas . . . there I go, off on a tangent again.
I can completely sympathize with those who have pointed out some of the social ills facing DC.
After all, just last week our Whole Foods was out of half and half. On a Saturday! In every size!!! I mean, psha, I couldn't even buy it in a size I'll never consume before it goes bad! My wife Bootsie (no relationship to the bass player, I can assure you) was miffed to say the least. Good golly! But you really can't be mad, what with the fine selection of cheeses they make available. I mean, where else are you going to get a Danish Blue Castello without the hassle of heading all the way to Georgetown and coping with the great unwashed horde, assembled to gawk covetously at the latest A/X and Diesel fashions? Notwithstanding, I'm back to Pearson's for vino, as I've found better pricing on syrahs and better selection on pinot noirs, but alas . . . there I go, off on a tangent again.
I've got three I'd say are unreachable. The three of DC's finest youth that stuck a gun next to my nuts, just for shits and giggles.
Again while I understand your feelings about these three "youths", the flip side is that they didn't pull the trigger and that's gotta count for something.
It's not that I don't understand the frustration that makes people feel like we should just start cutting dead weight because I feel it too sometimes. I'm a very pragmatic dude, but I can't make myself give up on kids that have basically had zero chance to succeed due to circumstances they have nothing to do with.
But let's say, for the sake of argument that, we track down the miscreants that threatened ur nuttz and they are remanded to the Dept. of Irredeemables. What then, do they get some sort of trial? Everything else in the District is totally fucked, why would we expect this particular institution to work any better or more effectively?
hillrat, we are all responsible for our own actions, regardless of the hand in life we're dealt. People over the age of 18 may feel the same way as these juveniles who haven't had the chances we have, but the difference is that we presume juveniles can't tell the difference between right and wrong. If we bring them to justice multiple times for the same offense, I would say that they can no longer claim youthful ignorance, but willful disobedience of the law, which should be punishable as such. I don't think a minor should receive the same sentence as an adult. The first time. And maybe the second time. But the third time? Everyone gets a chance in life. Some get handicapped more than others, but there is never an excuse for breaking the law, no matter what.
Free, compulsory celery milkshakes will make the kids behave...although I'm not yet sure if they're to be given to the good or the bad ones.
I'll let the crime stats Hillrat cites speak for themselves. If you think approximately 2 muggings a weekend on U Street corridor-- a few of them with "guns"-- and most of them crimes of opportunity inflicted upon drunks leaving Local 16 late at night-- 2 per weekend!-- constitutes reason enough to call out the Cavalry, then move to Arlington, or Utah. You'll be marginally safer there.
If you think it's absolutely absurd to let the occasional crime get in the way of your life, welcome to DC. I would not move to Anacostia, because of crime. But to rethink living anywhere else in DC on account of this stuff is silly.
@Krisa
I don't think I'm arguing against personal responsibility, all I'm really saying is that suggesting that we can just write off a certain percentage of our population before they reach the age of majority as "unreachable" is nonsense. If I had more time (and skill as a writer) I'd post something along the lines of Swift's "Modest Proposal", but alas I have to satisfy myself with taking potshots at Hillman.
As for the statement, ". . . there is never an excuse for breaking the law, no matter what." Are you sure you don't want to add some sort of caveat for civil disobedience and things of that nature?
@krisa: i love when people like you bang the "personal responsibility" drum, as if it's some innate sense we are all blessed with in the womb and that some simply choose to disregard. but the fact is that children need to be taught how to behave and be part of a civilized society by responsible adults. if they aren't lucky enough to have that presence in their lives, they can't be held completely accountable. we need to have schools and social programs that help troubled kids, not prisons for little offenders.
"Wait, wait -- HOLD IT!!!!
When did we stop killing the poor? Nobody told me!"
*Yawn* It was shortly after they stopped eating the rich. I'm not surprised you missed the memo, what with all the hubbub over the other memo and all.
Yeah, I know and like plenty of people from Texas and all, it's just that when he pops up and makes comments that are simplistic and stupid, I am inexorably drawn in that direction.
Southeast and Anacostia are not the same thing. Anacostia is a neighborhood in Southeast.
"I would not move to Anacostia, because of crime. But to rethink living anywhere else in DC on account of this stuff is silly."
Well, let's see now.
1501 Good Hope Road SE. Definitely Anacostia. For the same period and radius that I pulled for U Street earlier.
1 robbery with gun. 3 without. 1 assault without gun. 0 assaults with gun. 2 theft from auto and 8 stolen autos.
So this particular radius in the much-feared Anacostia is far lower in crime than our precious and pretentious U Street.
And you misquote even the stats I pulled. They weren't for all of U Street. Just for a select area 1500 feet from one address on U Street.
"Southeast and Anacostia are not the same thing. Anacostia is a neighborhood in Southeast."
Silly Dan. Don't you know that DC is just NW?
"but I can't make myself give up on kids that have basically had zero chance to succeed due to circumstances they have nothing to do with."
Let's see. They have a roof over their heads. All the food they need. Entertainment options. Excellent public transportation. Access to one of the best economies in the world (generally speaking). Plenty of job opportunities. A city full of liberals just panting at the chance to tutor some 'misguided youths'. Every social program known to man available. Granted, most of those are administered by the stunningly inept DC government.
These kids have it better than 95% of the rest of the world population. Certainly better than the poor in nearly every other country (except probably a few European ones).
Yes, they are raised in a culture of violence and entitlement. But that's our own fault. We allow it. Hell, we even finance it.
It's not a lack of opportunity. It's the culture they choose. And we finance.
Rat:
I'm not saying that the environment these kids are exposed to isn't a factor. Of course it is.
I myself was exposed to a similar culture. But it centered more on a rural poor, where there isn't really as much violence but there is definitely a lot of lack of ambition (or laziness).
Perhaps there is less violence because there is less opportunity for violence. There's definitely a lot of spousal abuse, child abuse, etc., so that's a form a violence.
But I knew from early on that if I fucked with someone else's property there was a very good chance I'd get by asss kicked and I'd be visited by the police.
Maybe if I'd thought I could get away with it I would have been a little miscreant as well.
The one incident I had (destruction of property) resulted in the cops being called, my parents whipping my ass and grounding me for months, and me having to pay for the damage. I sure as shit learned that my little thuggery had very real consequences.
That fear of consequences quickly cut through the bullshit idea that my circumstances led me to be a little shit.
I knew we were poor. And, yes, I felt sorry for myself because of it. And we were rural poor, in a damn poor county, with very little opportunity..... no jobs, no public transit, no one offering us assistance. But I realized pretty quickly that no one was going to just give me shit for free, and that I'd have to work my ass off to change my circumstance.
That's what's missing with youth in DC. The chance of any negative repercussion from their crime sprees is tiny at best, either from parents or from the cops. And the fact that you can exist pretty well in DC without ever getting a real job or doing anything other than being a little shit. And they quickly figure this out.
Hillman - When Coro and I are done rounding up DC's juvenile delinquents and sending them to Vienna, we're coming for the homosexuals!
And the gypsies!
And the Poles!
And the dwarves!
Did I mention the homosexual Polish dwarves?
That's what's missing with youth in DC. The chance of any negative repercussion from their crime sprees is tiny at best, either from parents or from the cops.
What you fail to explain is how is this a 14 year-old's fault; he doesn't know any better and hasn't been taught any better, so how is he supposed to figure this out on his own?
And you never did explain how you want the Dept. of Irredeemables to work.
The 19th century attitude was that orphaned children of unwed mothers and "fallen women" needed to be extracted from the "corrupting" influence of the urban decay, and be raised in the healthy atmosphere of America's farms and rural towns. Between the 1860s and the early 20th century, thousands of kids were shipped from NYC to the midwest to work in stockyards and family farms. There's never been a comprehensive study of how these kids ended up. But had they stayed in 19th century NYC, the would have almost certainly ended up dead, in jail, or in one of the many gangs that ruled New York at the time.
Point is, we need to ship our problems to the Red States and let them worry about it. Worst comes to worst, they'll end up a snake handler and overdosing on strychnine.
I know I'm waaaaay late to the convo but I just had to say that if you're THAT worried about crime, please A)move out of the city and into a gated community (preferably one where they make you put the little bar code sticker on your Yukon) or B) commission a fallout shelter to be built in the basement of your row house, enter it, shut the door, then sit back and wait for Jesus to come.
I can't promise either of those approaches will completely shelter you from crime but you FEEL safe.
I'm not saying crime shouldn't be addressed (it certainly should be) but c'mon, you're living in a major city, there will be crime in every neighborhood and there's no way of cleansing the city of it.
And just remember, it could always be worse (I used to live in Baltimore when I was a kid).
West:
You are right in that there will always be some crime. But DC has a lot more crime than other cities. For instance, NYC is far safer than DC.
But we've grown accustomed to just accepting DC as being unsafe.
I'm saying it can be a lot safer.
Rat:
Yes, it is the 14 year old's fault. When I was 14 I knew that being a little shit and fucking with other people and their stuff was wrong. And the first time I was caught and there were real consequences I quickly saw that it wasn't worth it.
As for people not teaching juveniles right from wrong, that's just not true. Even the crappy DC schools do teach that violent crime isn't morally acceptable. As do churches, various media outlets (popular... but not all.... rap music being an exception) True, a fair number of parents in DC don't teach that, but that doesn't mean these kids aren't told by someone.
And even if they can't differentiate right from wrong, they can sure as shit weigh the consequences. If they know that stealing that car will seriously fuck up their life, they probably won't steal it even if they think they are somehow entitled to steal it. If they know that it's no big deal then chances are they will steal it.
Without the punishment and deterrent aspect all the social programs in the world won't cut down on crime. As the past 40 years in DC have amply shown.
Monkey:
Can you house me with the Poles? Some of those lads are damn hot, what with their uncut weenies, big butts, and all.
Rat:
Can I at least get some love for pointing out the stupidity of the 'the only real crime in DC is in Anacostia' blather?
Come on now. Give me some already.
I am a pretty new resident to the U Street Corridor, and, thus far, I feel pretty safe. It is still a neighborhood in transition, and, from what I hear, it wasn't too long ago that it was completely chaotic. And, with all of the venues, clubs, lounges, restaurants, shops, etc. present, it is going to attract more "action," both legal and illegal. The combo of it still being a neighborhood in transition (there are some apartments and other things I'd like to see disappear somehow) and all of the general activity, I cannot imagine it not having some crime. That's just realistic. But, calling it sketchy is extreme. I feel safer on U Street than other neighborhoods in DC, even the more affluent, homogenous ones.
My one problem with U St. proper is the sidewalks. For a street that is supposed to be such an important commercial corridor, why are the sidewalks so damn narrow?
HCE - if the city would ever get their asses moving on the U street repaving/redesign project, you'll see wider sidewalks. there's a set of PDFs on ddot's website that shows this...it would especially make things better between 16th and 15th and again between 14th and 13th streets.
i believe that the super narrow sidewalks on the south side of the street are not ADA compliant.
goph - Every few years, the U Street neighborhood committees float the idea of widening the sidewalks between 14th and 13th. Businesses along that stretch shoot the idea down because they think it will get rid of their parking spaces. They also see how long it's taken the P Street fixup and how hard those businesses have struggled to stay in business.
true, monkey, but i would argue that the city has learned at least a little lesson from the p street debacle, and should be able to do a better job of mitigating things for businesses with future streetscaping projects.
Rat, it blows my mind how you can consider any member of society, regardless of age or ignorance, completely blameless for their actions. As Hillman points out, there are outlets; there are other options; and there are ways out of the life you've been dealt. If parents aren't around to educate on this, then the judge damn well better. It's the utter lack of respect for cops, courts, and the legal system in general that excuses the continued misbehavior and enables these delinquents to continue breaking the law. I don't care who does the educating, but if no one else does it, I expect the judicial system to make the case loud and clear that breaking the law is not tolerated. The burden is not on the city to bring a social outreach program to their front step. It's their personal responsibility to take action to better themselves and recognize that their behavior is not acceptible. If they're not getting the message, then we need to turn up the volume, ie sentence as adults.
"i would argue that the city has learned at least a little lesson from the p street debacle, and should be able to do a better job of mitigating things for businesses with future streetscaping projects."
One hopes. The 14th and 17th Street businesses are already worried.
@Krisa - You're not even responding to what I wrote because I quite clearly said, "I don't think I'm arguing against personal responsibility." You continue to bang the drum of personal responsibility while completely ignoring the structural forces that shape attitudes and behaviors.
Furthermore, when you make ridiculous sweeping statements like, ". . . there is never an excuse for breaking the law, no matter what" it makes it difficult to take your opinions seriously. All I can say is that I'm glad MLK didn't feel the same way, otherwise I'd probably be vacuuming my cube instead of working in it.
101 posts and still nobody mentions that people who rob icecream stores are worse than Hitler?
Color me impressed.
In case anyone didn't realize it, this is a Maggie Moo's that's run by a Manna program designed to provide jobs to those who are the most vulnerable already. (Manna works with low and moderate income folks in DC on homeowner and finance issues.)
http://www.mannadc.org/mediacenter/2004%20Annual%20Report/Manna%202004%20Annual%20Report.pdf
If the attackers are from the neighborhood that would be just agonizing as they're attacking their own neighbors who are working a real job to get on their own feet. I'd just call the attackers cowards (yes, and very dumb) and they're attacking the most vulnerable. I'm just really, really glad that there's no mention of anyone who's hurt. I hope the attackers learn their lesson. I'm not talking retribution here, I'm talking restorative, creative justice.
So what can we do? One thing I'd suggest is going by Maggie Moo's not to gawk but let those kids know that those of us who live and work in this neighborhood support them and strongly condemn this attack. Let's let them know that the kids working there are doing the right thing in having a job and serving their community.
Shit. I leave for just a bit and I don't get to be # 100.
Downtown Rez, you suck. And not in a good 'frat party winding down, prone on the bunkbeds upstairs, I'm so drunk I don't know what I'm doing' sortof way.
Hate to restart this thread, but if anyone's still listening, hillman -- you need help on how to interpret crime statistics.
I think you would do well to check your stats on the population density within a half-mile radius of 12th & U, and the population density within a half-mile radius of 1501 Good Hope Road.
Raw numbers mean nothing. What matters is the crimes per unit of population in a given area. U street/Adams Morgan/Columbia Heights is by far the most densely populated part of the city. I don't know what's at 1501 Good Hope Road but I'm pretty sure there aren't a lot of high rise apartment buildings. On google maps it looks like single family homes, and not even that many of them.
Krisa said: If they're not getting the message, then we need to turn up the volume, ie sentence as adults.
Krisa, or Hillman, what makes you believe, contrary to available evidence, that sentencing youth as adults will help them "get the message"?
1501 Good Hope was the Jacks residence. Anyways, Jamie is basically right. Hillman is really disingenuous when citing crime statistics. No one ever said, "the only real crime is in Anacostia." I did say Anacostia is substantially more dangerous than the rest of the city. I can deal with the amount and nature of the crime along the U Street corridor. I won't do the same in Anacostia.
And as you pointed out earlier, Hillman, comparing reported crime between Anacostia and U Street means very little. It's the massive amount of unreported violent crime in Anacostia that's so frightening. There is a "no snitching" ethos among residents that you definitely don't see among the residents and business owners of the U Street corridor.
Have you ever even been to Anacostia?
16th street line: i thought the jacks' lived on 6th street SE.
16th St:
Actually, your exact quote was :
"Nowhere in Northwest or Capitol Hill is anything like Anacostia after midnight."
Which is elitist, idiotic bullshit.
Have I been to Anacostia? Yes.
Have you?
You have somewhat of a valid point when you point out that parts of Anacostia certainly have less people than parts of Anacostia.
But the original point remains true - there is more crime on U Street and other NW areas than in parts of the city that you denigrate in a blanket 'wouldn't live there' statement.
Yes, I picked two points at random.
But I could have just as easily picked a less dense area of NW, and the results would have been the same.
Crime in Columbia Heights, the U Street area, etc. , is quite high, higher than in many parts of Anacostia. Period.
And you really think that crime is underreported only in Anacostia? Really?
GBert:
That is an interesting link.
Let me clarify my point. It's not necessarily involving juveniles in the adult system that I want. I just want there to be some sort of deterrent system. Right now there is none, except for the most heinous crimes. The 'little' crimes go unpunished and uninvestigated.
www.anacostianow.blogspot.com
self-promotion: yes.
good source of info on anacostia: yes.