February 26, 2008
New York Times Reporter Takes a Shot at Metro
Thanks to the 276 different people who took the time to email us this New York Times blog post from Jennifer "I probably shouldn't make pathetic attempts at insults with a middle name like" 8. Lee. Apparently our reputation for obsessing over a) transit issues and b) people who try to compare D.C. to New York City are well known at this point.
So apparently Ms. Lee was recently a visitor in our fair city, and she happened upon one of those adorable Metro ads that remind us all that eating and drinking on Metro is against the law. You know the ones -- they insinuate that other, nameless subway systems have problems with rats, but we don't, because of our strict rules. Lee makes the assumption that Metro means New York City's subway system. And hey, they probably do, even though a Metro spokesperson denied that was true.
Feeling as though the Metro ad campaign has somehow injured New York City's reputation, Lee then proceeds to try to bash Washington, D.C. The emphasis belongs on try, though, as she fails pretty miserably. She calls our nightlife "pathetic", and then cites some weird story she wrote in April of 2004 about how it's hard to get in to Bloomberg News' post-White House Correspondents' Dinner party. Because, you know, the only thing to do at night in D.C. is party with Tim Russert once a year.
But Lee saves her best shot for the look of our beloved Metro system map:
City Room will say, sure, Washington’s system may be rat-free, but its subway map also has all the sophistication of Fisher Price.If that's not the saddest excuse of a put-down, we don't know what is. Our subway map is brightly colored and easy to read? The horror!
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The New York subway is really designed for only locals. I used to live in Jersey so I know the subway system pretty well, but my wife, who is a lifelong Washingtonian went to New York for the first time in '04 and found out NY's color coding means almost nothing.
Gotta agree with demonfafa. I just moved to DC after living in New York for two years. DC has the superior system, and the superior map. DC's subway map is a *real* subway map. Hell, people are trying to get the MTA to replace the awful current map with something that resembles a real subway map.
Gotta agree with demonfafa. I just moved to DC after living in New York for two years. DC has the superior system, and the superior map. DC's subway map is a *real* subway map. Hell, people are trying to get the MTA to replace the awful current map with something that resembles a real subway map.
http://www.kickmap.com/pages/7_wholemap_comparison.html
JEALOUS???
In that case Ms. Lee should take a cab. Bwaaaaahhh Haaaa Haaaaa!!!!!
Metro is infinitely cleaner than NYC subway, but I have seen rats on Metro tracks. Let's not kid ourselves -- that's like WASA bragging about its lead-free water.
The bigger complaint from New Yorkers about Metro is the fact that it covers less ground and is geared towards commuters over city riders.
no one in the US has the density of NYC, so of course our subway/metro system isn't going to be as extensive as theirs.
but to knock our map? check out the link that freshyill posted above? i'm sure ms. 8 lee is no cartographer, but i am, and i can tell you that the current NYC subway map sucks.
a first semester cart. student could make a better one, and the second one at the link above is FAR superior to their current mess (and, not surprisingly, more WMATA-like).
Though I feel I contributed to the some what negative tone in the whole U Street piece comments today, I feel like we (DC) can push each other around (gently) but hell no some snotty biiatch can! Thanks for letting us bash someone else for awhile...
Have at'er gang!
You haven't seen rats on the metro tracks? I certainly have. I do have a special place in my heart for the NY Subway. After all it's about 200 years old and you can't walk five feet without seeing some complex tiled fresco by some long-forgotten artist. It has more rats and more character. A bit of a trade-off I suppose.
New York is unique in having a geographically-accurate map. But it also looks like spaghetti. If 8-Ball had done her research, she would have seen that nearly every other transit system in the world has maps that are similar in design to ours, which is a testament to its superior graphic design,
Also, the thing that people don't often mention is that while the New York Subway has more stops, that also means that taking the train is abysmally slow. It's like an underground bus. I suppose one could take an express train, but those don't stop at every station anyway, negating this distinction.
In terms of time between trains, I see no difference between the Subway and Metro. In fact, I have a theory that people are duped into thinking that Metro regularly runs more slowly because of the PIDs - knowing how much time there is until the next train makes it seem all that more interminable than if you have no idea, as in the Subway.
But, I love both systems for their own reasons. No reason for those folks to get all butt-hurt about these ads.
Am I the only one who knows the real reason she's so bitter about her time spent living in DC?
Am I the only one who knows the real reason she's so bitter about her time spent living in DC?
Any designer of ANYTHING will tell you that "lots of stuff going on" does not equal "sophistication." Often it's quite the opposite. As Steve Jobs said, you have to find "a beautiful, elegant solution that works." "Works" being the key phrase.
It's interesting to note that in the 1970s, the MTA map was indeed similar to what we have here in DC, but it was for some reason replaced with what they have now, despite the fact that nearly every large transit system in the world uses the more readable, slightly-abstract, 45-degree angled style that we have.
Proof:
London Underground
Paris Metro
Moscow Metro
Tokyo Subway
Wait, her middle name is 8???
abefroman, apparently you and i are the ones who remember. and i found it on the Post archives:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59260-2005Feb3.html
Really, that's what she chooses to make fun of us for? The fact that she couldn't find a decent party and didn't like metro's anti-food ads? Not the single tracking or 20 minute wait for trains? Really?
She's a hack and I'm glad to see this is what she's busy with these days. Why was she in D.C. this week? No one here asked her back.
Uhh... doesn't the NYC subway map have colors, lines, and dots, too? Really, if given the choice between rats and garbage and a dumbed-down map, I choose the map.
8? I think that is her mental age and IQ combined.
There are about a billion things in DC to complain about, but this megatard picks the subway map. No big surprise she "writes" for the New York Crimes.
Lee is a joke and it's sad that the NYT still pays her. Does anyone remember her big Style Section piece on "man-dates?"
City Room will say, sure, Washington’s system may be rat-free, but its subway map also has all the sophistication of Fisher Price.
Who the f**k wants a sophisticated subway map? WTF does that even mean? I'm thinking something in an a nice font like Trajan with pictures of sea serpents around Rockaway with a scroll in their mouth that says, "Here There Be Monsters."
Welcome to Dumbassville (aka Park Slope). Population: you.
Trajan? It's a subway map, not a movie poster.
But it's a sophisticated subway map, goddammit! Something you'd be proud to whip out at any bar in the Meatpacking District.
abefroman329 et al, it's reassuring to see that despite DC's transitory nature, there are so many who know. Anyone else remember all the false hospitality at the M street loft? It's hard to believe it's been 5 years since the 8 explosion.
I wonder if Des Moines and Omaha's respective populace argue over which city has the bigger/better designed parking spots for their giant trucks?
Personally, I prefer Omaha's thicker, stylized spots.
8 sounds like a bit of a prima donna, if you believe the WP story about her causing more than $100,000 damage to her rented condo during her unfortunate DC years. That's a crapload of damage, reaching the prima donna level. Then apparently she denied it?
Her friends described her as an "aspiring grande dame for the younger set."
That pretty much says it all.
But if my parents gave me a number as a middle name I'd sure as shit use it, just to piss other people off.
I have to agree with you all, it's hard to believe that NYT actually pays her for this garbage. I think my newborn niece can write better smack then this wack job!
The most ridiculous thing about this utter waste of pixels is the fact that the article's entire premise is wrong. The poster talks about multiple rat-infested subway systems. Not just one. Obviously NYC's hell-hole is one of those systems that WMATA is much cleaner than, but it's not the only one. So basically, here's a poster that makes a tounge-in-cheek jab at multiple non-specific old subways systems. And she decides this poster is in fact an impudent broadside against the MTA. So she has jumped to the conclusion that this is all about DC's supposed inferiority complex with NYC, but in doing so she has inadvertantly made this into a story about how New Yorkers (particularly arriviste New Yorkers like her) spend too much of their time fantasizing about how much the rest of the country must wish they were New Yorkers just like them.
San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) has a color coded map, but the color means nothing, it just differentiates the lines on the map. After almost 20 years of "the color means absolutely nothing" mentality, I found it a bit difficult switching to Metro's "color coded" system.
And yes, Metro does have rats. Just look down at the tracks, especially in the underground stations and you'll likely see a rodent scurrying about. Of course Metro is almost completely devoid of graffiti, try saying THAT about the NY Subway!
freshyill: thanks for the link. the kick design map should be the nyc subway map! it's incredibly easy to read and I really like the addition of neighborhoods. although folks might quibble that they live in Park Slope when the map says they live in Prospect Heights or some crap like that. but who cares about that?
Ms. Lee is actually a very nice woman. I do recall however, that she would use that beautiful piano as a bar.
Whatever happened to the lawsuit from her former landlady?
I knew of Jenny 8 (We shared some mutual friends). She was kinda snotty and super-duper ambitious.
I knew her professionally a number of years ago, and I thought she was kind of dumpy and annoying, trying to be the important Washington socialite that she could never really be.
"You're so vain, you probably think this metro ad is about you... don't you, don't you"
Seriously though, clearly 8 knows a great night life from a bad one, she just misspoke about DC- if it was urinating, defacating, and vomiting at parties she was looking for, there are plenty of parks and bums that would have gladly welcomed that sort of "night life."
Whatevs. I came down here for a job, and between the khaki-ness of DC, the shitty metro system (I get to pay $5 to commute to NoVa! Yipee!) and the craptacular night life (no, three bars do not a good scene make) I can't wait to go back home.
And to Probably Bored At Work: Georgetown? Dupont? Pshaw!
NYorkerinDC: Three bars? Have you HEARD of Adams Morgan, U Street, or Chinatown? To name just a few areas of this city that have more than 3 BLOCKS dedicated to bars/night life. No-one besides 8 tried to pull the "my city is better than yours" childish behavoir, but if you are going to criticize, atleast try branching out from the two smallest areas of the city prior. Actually, if you've only checked out Gtown and Dupont, you should have felt right at home - or were there not enough sleezy middle aged Wall Street guys/politicians looking to cheat on their wives, and Gottis (in our case, GW kids) from Long Island poppin' bottles on Dad's credit card?
Seriously though, if NYC is so great, why don't you go back home? I'm sure you can find a job there, perhaps you can even score being 8's house cleaner!
I think it's possible to sum up the difference between NYC and DC by looking at the responses to the following statement: "How To Lie With Maps considers the DC Metro map the best example of a map that lies for a good cause, doing a better job of informing the viewer than a strictly accurate map could."
DC: "Cool. I guess having so many mapmakers in town paid off."
NYC: "Mapmakers are boring, poorly-dressed geeks who wouldn't go anyplace cool even if they lived anywhere where there were cool places, which of course they don't."
hey cminus....i represent that remark!
NewYorkerinDC, I suggest you do everyone (including yourself) a favor and go find a job in the Large Apple. This woe-is-me-I'm-stuck-in-this-shitty-town-because-of-my-job-situation line got old after I heard about the 15th wanker bark it into his cell phone while stumbling out of McFadden's.
Plus, that whole DC-has-no-nightlife jab is soooo 1985. Time for some new material.
but in doing so she has inadvertantly made this into a story about how New Yorkers (particularly arriviste New Yorkers like her) spend too much of their time fantasizing about how much the rest of the country must wish they were New Yorkers just like them.
This reminds me of another amusing anecdote; one which I think sums up the New York state of mind.
When I came east for college from my little midwestern burg, I was watching TV with a New Yorker, and there was some little blurb on the news about some film digitally changing a billboard in its shots of Times Square because the billboard was advertising a subsidiary of a rival conglomerate. She said, "it's not such a big deal; everyone knows what's on the billboards in Times Square." And I said, quite truthfully, "until we saw this, I've never even wondered whether there were billboards in Times Square."
And she was totally convinced that I had to be lying. Who wouldn't care about famous New York landmarks like that?
This is why I'm happier in Washington. We may be workaholics (though frankly New York has a lot to answer for when it comes to workahol addiction too), and we may be drably-dressed people who are usually in bed by three, but at least we acknowledge that most of what goes on in this city is of no interest to anyone outside of it. We may think our unique role in national politics is important, but we know that our neighborhoods and restaurants and bridges are generally not significantly more interesting than the local equivalents in Boston or Baltimore, or even Milwaukee or Louisville. Neither are New York's, but you can't tell them that.
hey cminus....i represent that remark!
Really, IMGoph? Cool. I guess having so many mapmakers in town paid off.
(Actually, I now have a really strong desire to search Craigslist -> Casual Encounters -> w4m -> search for: "mapmaker". I am so very DC.)
"Neither are New York's, but you can't tell them that."
Come on, CMinus, *everyone* knows and loves the Tappan Zee Bridge!
I'd rather a rat-infested subway system than a rat-infested apartment. I love things about both cities, but really, DC may not ever claim greater cleanliness than another.
If the tradeoff for rats is a system that closes at midnight and you have to take a bus to reach, I'll take rats any day of the week.
And I've lived in both DC and NYC and DC's nightlife IS pathetic. It's tough, but true.
This may be a bit wordy, but the MTA is free to use it, provided they give us a 1 year unlimited MetroCard/LIRR/Metro-North ticket:
Unlike some subway systems (which will remain nameless), you can ride 24 hours a day, don't have stations that look like they are the Dr. Strangelove War Room, have a simple flat fare system where you don't have to fumble with your fare instrument to exit. plus you can transfer from bus to subway and subway to bus for just one fare, and has its own ecosystem complete with wildlife. Stand clear of the closing doors!
honestly, i don't have a dog in the "great DC/NYC subway" fight, but a pissing match between the two cities on that (or any other matter) is damn stupid and childish.
DC is tiny compared to NYC. so is every other city in the US. NYC and london, or moscow, or paris, or tokyo, or hong kong...now that's a fight worth having.
Seriously, let's get into a debate comparing the country's largest city to one of the country's smallest, that makes sense! And, let's compare the NYC subway station dedicated to its population of what... atleast 8 million? to a metro system for DC's whopping 600,000 people. And let's let that escalate to how NYC is SO much better than D.C. even though they are completely different worlds (thank God, I wouldn't live here if there was any sort of similarity). If this isn't the biggest and most pathetic stretch by New York to remind everyone in the world they think they are better, then I don't know what is. Because afterall, anyone who is anyone knows very well that rats and mcdonald's on NYC subways clearly exemplifies how New York City has more culture, a better night life, a better transportation system, and a better everything than anyone else! Duh!
Go pick on someone your own size New York. Though if you want to keep up the fight, I am sure there is a tiny African village that can't match your nightlife and subway system. Go get 'em!
"And I've lived in both DC and NYC and DC's nightlife IS pathetic. It's tough, but true."
Depends on what you're looking for, I suppose. If you're talking about a lack of clubs where someone can drop a grand to reserve a table for the evening then run up some frequent flyer miles downing the Cristal with the Beautiful People, then sure. But from where we are--within walking distance to U St., Adams-Morgan, Dupont, and short cab rides to Georgetown, downtown, PQ and Capitol Hill--we've got more than enough clubs, pubs, lounges and watering holes to keep us satisfied.
At any rate, IMGoph is right--trying to directly compare DC and NYC is just silly, the two cities are so completely different there's hardly anything comparable between the two. Pointing out that NYC's nightlife scene trumps DC's is really going after the low-hanging fruit.
Um, Paris wins. But thanks for playing NYC and DC. Just keep telling yourselves that the rest of the world sees a difference. (hint: they don't, although they sure love San Fran....never occurred to you, did it?)
RE: NYC vs DC, does anyone actually think that either one of these cities is anywhere near as exciting or fun as they were in the late 90's?
I choose to blame Carrie Bradshaw, but that's generally true of everything I'm dissatisfied with in my life.