February 28, 2008
Go Home Already: Como la Flor
>> The Langston Terrace housing project has a bad termite problem. [WJLA]
>> One man says he was unlawfully detained by the MPD after refusing to show his receipt for a purchase at the Rhode Island Ave. Home Depot. [Consumerist]
>> The D.C. Council "asked more questions about how to get tickets to the Supreme Court hearing than about how the city could have a surplus one-day and a $95 million deficit the next." [Malcontent Minute]
>> "More than 400 cases involving charges of abuse and neglect of city children have remained open longer than the law allows." [Examiner]
>> "DC scratch tickets will take your money and then kick you while you're down." [why.i.hate.dc]
>> "Have you ever noticed how loud it gets on the metro about halfway through the ride from the Petworth to Columbia Heights station? I mean it gets super loud." [Prince of Petworth]
Photo by Captain Easychord
|
The Rhode Island Home Depot really sucks ass. I tried real hard to be a good city boy and use that one. But, really, it's terrible.
But Jesus already. Being asked to show a receipt as you leave a store is common practice.
This guy needs to stop being a prima donna and show his damn receipt already. If he doesn't like that store policy, he's free to shop elsewhere.
And his police report is hilarious. He describes the cop as 'medium-skinned'. WTF is 'medium-skinned'?
I hate that policy. It's just offensive.
And medium skinned is not dark, not light, medium. It's a gradation of the spectrum of black skin tones.
The Rhode Island Home Depot is a mess, even by Home Depot standards: they're always out of stock, customer service is a joke, and tracking down someone to help find something is like something out of The Fugitive. And when you actually get someone, they blame some mysterious one-armed man for their lack of inventory.
I also read they're losing tens of thousands every month to shoplifters and inside-men who swipe merchandise and fence the stuff, which I guess explains their poor inventory and their customer harassment.
Fragers Hardware FTW!
Quote: But Jesus already. Being asked to show a receipt as you leave a store is common practice.
It may be a common practice, but that doesn't mean you are required to do it and that doesn't mean refusal to show a receipt amounts to PC for an arrest.
Has SCOTUS ever ruled on this kinda thing? What constitutes illegal search and siezure when exiting a business? Does store security require probable cause? I thought that if you're on store property, you're required to show a receipt on exit if requested by security.
If the ACLU is willing to defend me, this monkey's more than willing to make a test case at Best Buy or Costco. Better make it Costco. That way, I can shove a couple dozen of those delicious hotdogs down my trousers and refuse to show my reciept on exit. It'll be like the Greensboro lunch counter sit-in, except with pants full of hotdogs.
Who will join me in the Arlington Costco s**t-in? Who's with me? You can take my receipt, but you can't take our FREEEEEEEDDDDDOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!
If I ran a store in DC I'd absolutely have the 'ask for a receipt' policy.
Again, no one is forcing you to shop there.
I don't know the underlying legality. But it's just common damn sense. And it's not invasive. If they took you to a back room and beat you with a rubber hose that'd be a problem. But they are just asking you for a damn receipt as you exit the building. That store (and many others in DC) is most probably getting robbed blind, so how about being a decent shopper and giving ten seconds of your time to try and prevent at least some of the theft?
And they aren't just checking for theft. They are checking for items that the cashier missed, both intentionally and by mistake. This happens pretty frequently, especially at a store where you buy large items on a cart.
This guy is being a little prissy bitch and needs to remember that the world doesn't revolve around him.
And I'm betting he is the first to complain when stores raise their prices because of theft.
As for medium-skinned, I assumed this meant Hannibal Lecter had been interrupted mid-skinning.
It may just be me, but I've never been asked to show a receipt when leaving a store. And I've even shopped a few times at that (terrible, horrible, no good, very bad) Home Depot on Rhode Island Avenue.
That said, I think a storekeeper is probably within their rights to demand customers show a receipt upon leaving, just as they can refuse to accept bills above a certain size even though they're supposed to be legal tender for all debts, public and private. I would also say they're within their rights to ask the police to deal with customers who refuse to follow store policies, although I hope that MPD doesn't keep a policeman posted at the Home Despot just for that purpose -- if that's the case, I can point them to a lot of better places to permanently station a law enforcement officer.
That said, a "show your receipt" policy sounds like it would be stupid and customer-unfriendly, so I'm with the whiny guy at least that far. But making a police case out of it doesn't fly; there is no legal right to good customer service.
What I find most offensive about HD's receipt check is that they look at your receipt but NEVER check it against what you're carrying. I could show the guy a receipt for $2.00 worth of screws and have something completely different in the bag. Supposedly what I have in the bag would set off the theft control devices but if that's the case they should just rely on those and not hassle everyone.
As for medium-skinned, I assumed this meant Hannibal Lecter had been interrupted mid-skinning.
I was thinking maybe the mohel did a sloppy job? But then, how would the cop know unless they're doing searches down there. Yet another reason to stay with Fragers. They serve Jew and gentile alike and they even gave me a sweet deal on a propellar yamulke.
maybe we can take all the various branches of logan hardware (glover park, logan circle, tenleytown, the new one coming to mt. vernon triangle), mash them together, and send the frankensteined monster off to war against home depot...
when you sign up for a costco membership, on the contract you sign, you agree to show your receipt upon exit. therefore, not illegal search and seizure since you have consented.
Thanks a lot, hungeegirl. And I was so looking forward to shoving Costco hotdogs down my pants and getting tazed. Guess I'll have to settle for Chinese takeout and my junk in a Tesla coil.
Homedepot CEO has chimed in on Consumerist.
IMGoph -- Logan Hardware in Mt Vernon Triangle?! When, where? That's GREAT news!
"just as they can refuse to accept bills above a certain size even though they're supposed to be legal tender for all debts, public and private."
The reason they can refuse to accept large bills, or payment in pennies, is because when you purchase something, it is not a 'debt' in the legal sense.
Politburo:
Is that really true? I hate having local businesses refuse anything larger than a 20. Sure, a $500 bill - I can understand. But ATMS now give out 50s and even 100s, but they are useless in many neighborhoods because businesses won't accept them.
Hillman: Why would I BS? Search for "legal tender for all debts" and you'll get the treasury FAQ. It doesn't really get into the legalese, but supports what I said above.
thatgirl: yeah, they're going to be opening in the cityvista building on 5th street (where safeway and results are going)
Well I'll be damned. I did not know that, about businesses not having to take cash.
Does Fragers Hardware sell lumber? I'm still desperately seeking a place that doesn't act like I'm asking them to build a house for me when I want someone to cut a piece of wood to size.
Does Fragers Hardware sell lumber?
Indeed they do, even our esteemed President shops there when looking to spruce up the White House.
I was there the day Bush 'shopped' at Fragers. As much as I am a total media whore, I just couldn't stomach it and had to flee the scene, to the comfort of a mid-day bourbon.
From what I understand, the Police can not detain you unless there is suspician of a crime, or a crime has been committed, or it is suspected that that person is breaking the law for some reason.
A police officer can not detain you for no reason at all. The store policy is a policy that legally cannot be forced.
For example: What if I tore up my receipt as soon as they handed it to me at the register? What then?
What if you tore up your receipt as soon as you got it?
You'd be assured of a permanent place in the Asshole Hall of Fame.
If you got a problem with the policy, don't shop there. But being an ass to the minimum wage employees isn't the answer.
So you'd be fine if an employee(store guard) frisked you or patted you down too?
What if they forgot to ring up one of your items in your bag? Did you shoplift that then?
There's a huge difference between a store asking for a receipt and frisking you.
Asking for a receipt is acceptable to me. A frisk is not, even if it's done by a hottie.
If they find an item in my bag that isn't rung up then it'd be up to them to prove that I stole the item. I'm pretty certain their video would show the whole event.
That's why they typically have the receipt-checker close to the register, so that in theory they can watch you the entire time, from the register to the receipt-check. If you didn't fuck with the bag in that space, then it's clear the checkout person made the error.
But I'd also say the store has a right to have a frisking policy if they want. Even a body cavity search policy. Assuming it was publicized in advance. I would just choose not to shop there.
Depends on how much you want the product. We allow frisking, metal detectors, etc., at concerts and other high-demand events. You can always choose whether to go or not.
Hillman, what you say, and what you think are reasonable, are not necessarily the same things as "what is legally allowed and/or required." You can make all the noise you want about how reasonable a "show your receipt" policy is, but the fact of the matter is that there is no actual legal support for your position. I also seriously doubt whether this type of receipt checking has any real impact on loss due to theft, since receipt checkers never actually look into your bags, or search you in any other way.
I also really can't believe that you equated frisking/metal detectors at the entrance to an event to a policy designed to prevent people from leaving an establishment until they submit to a search (no matter how small and notional that "search" is). They are not the same thing.
If for example the store policy is you cannot exit with merchandise without showing a receipt and you refuse to show a receipt but are carrying merchandise, you are violating store policy and as such cannot leave the premises with it in your possession. If you try, or if you refuse to relinquish the merchandise, that can be viewed as willful behavior to commit theft, and warrants potential police investigation. The store employee is not going to search you or take any action to determine if you're a thief, they're going to call the professionals who know how to handle such situations.
I don't know the underlying legality. I'm betting it's interpreted differently every time.
But I'm not arguing it's legality. I'm arguing what you as a decent member of society should do.
You may have the legal right to be a dick. That doesn't mean you have to be a dick.
And a search is a search. I don't care when it is. It's still a search.
Krisa, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make ... the point this particular Home Depot shopper was trying to make was that the store's receipt production policy is in fact not legally binding. And he's correct. In other comment threads on this matter I've seen multiple posts regarding retail policies on theft, and in fact "refusal to show a receipt" is NOT something that can legally be viewed as "willful behavior to commit theft."
Hillman at least admits that he's not arguing on the basis of legality but rather one of "decent behavior." Although I'm personally not sure how "treat all of your customers like potential thieves on their way out the door" really counts as decent behavior.
And Hillman, I guess I'll have to be more specific since you somehow can't see any difference between metal detectors at the entrance to a stadium and receipt checkers blocking the Home Depot door. A search at the entrance to an event establishes a clear condition for entry and you then have the option to enter or not enter. A search at the exit when you are trying the leave the facility gives you the option to submit to the search or to not leave the building. I'd say it's pretty obvious that's more of a restriction, and that it calls more rights into play than merely ones related to unwarranted searches.
I'm no crusader on this issue, and I think that people who jump up and down and make a big deal about it are probably the same kind of people who argue endlessly about minutiae on the 'Net for no apparent reason. I think that people who unreservedly jump to the store's defense in situations like this are even more misguided, however.
Nate:
I don't unreservedly jump to the store's defense.
For instance, if a store is going to have a 'receipt search' policy, they should advertise that prominently up front so you know before you go in.
And it should be a minor inconvenience. If it takes more than a minute or two I think that's too much.
And of course the store personnel need to be professional.
I'd say all stores treat us as potential thieves, because at least in DC a sizeable number of us are. That's why they have store cameras, store detectives, etc.
Having a receipt check at the door is to me is probably less intrusive than a store camera peering down and zooming in on my unmentionables and such.