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This morning a large group of taxicab drivers caravaned slowly down 16th St. NW and circled around Freedom Plaza, honking their horns and creating a large traffic jam all around the downtown area. NBC4 reports that police closed Pennsylvania Avenue for a brief time, but that the closure may not have been related to the taxi protest - a motorcade was spotted in the area.
The Post has a brief story up now as well. It quotes organizers from a group called the Coalition of Cab Drivers, Companies and Associations of Washington, D.C. as saying they chose not to alert the public of their plan ahead of time because they feel the media is not giving them favorable coverage in their fight against Mayor Fenty's decision to switch all D.C. cabs to time and distance meters.
"This is not about jobs and money," he said. "It's all about the service, how it's going to be impacted when we go to meters. Nobody's listening to this story."The story says the strike began at 6 a.m. this morning and is planned to last 24 hours, until 6 a.m. tomorrow. But DCist just took a walk from Thomas Circle down to Freedom Plaza, and we spotted dozens of working D.C. cabs with fares inside their vehicles on the way. So while the striking drivers certainly created a lot of noise and traffic problems this morning, by no means are all taxis observing this 24-hour strike. Still, you'll want to factor in the strike to your Valentine's evening plans. Taxis may be hard to find tonight.Price said that in other large U.S. cities, where there are far fewer taxis working for a few large companies, taxi service does not extend to neighborhoods, as it does in the District. He and other coalition leaders say that moving to meters will eliminate the independent-business aspect of D.C.'s cab service and will run many current drivers out of business.
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"'This is not about jobs and money,' he said. 'It's all about the service, how it's going to be impacted when we go to meters. Nobody's listening to this story.'
...He and other coalition leaders say that moving to meters will eliminate the independent-business aspect of D.C.'s cab service and will run many current drivers out of business."
Anyone else catch the contradiction here? By saying it will elmimnate the independent-business aspect and run many drivers out of business, it really is about the money and the jobs.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. If the drivers are making the same amount of money and there are just as many, why would the service suffer?
I think the striking drivers's point is that there won't be as many taxis once the meter requirement goes into effect &/or that prices will go up. Not sure if I buy that argument, but the situation in NYC is illustrative in that there are practically no independent cabs, which means that there's probably less competition &, therefore, higher prices than if there were more taxi companies even if service is just as good. It's like the old saying: There's cheap, fast, & good--usually you can only get 1, but at most you can only have 2 at a time, not all 3.
I would believe this if I hadn't already read tons of stories from folks (and experienced it myslef once or twice) how a-hole cabbies refuse to unlock their doors until they hear your destination, then drive away if they don't want to go there.
DC cabbies are a bunch of entitled cry-babies who deserve to be regulated much more than they are. If common-sense regulations force some marginal players out of business, all the better, I say.
"Price said that in other large U.S. cities, where there are far fewer taxis working for a few large companies, taxi service does not extend to neighborhoods, as it does in the District."
What a crock. I get ditched for wanting to go only as far as the Hill REGULARLY. I'll trade having half as many taxi cabs for having those that are on the road provide a consistent professional level of service.
The drivers brought this upon themselves. If independent drivers hadn't foisted upon us a corrupt and inept Taxi Commission, that enforced professionalism amongst its patrons (enforcing passenger rights, penalizing cheating drivers, etc.) then maybe the populace wouldn't have gone to the extreme. The idealized "independent driver" has given us bad service and bilked us for fraudulent fares. I say bring on the big companies. At least then we'll know whom to hold responsible if they provide the kind of crappy service we now get from an anonymous mob.
What I think he’s saying makes some sense:
If driving a cab becomes less profitable, there will be fewer cabs. We pay a premium fare now, but in exchange we are able to hail a cab all hours of the day in more neighborhoods than most other big cities. Why? Because the more profitable a fare is the longer a cab driver can drive around without passengers (and be available when you want one).
I live in Dupont and I’m sure there will always be cabs, so I am not concerned. But those of you living less high traffic neighborhoods, good luck under the new system and think twice about your love of cheap fares.
Everything is a trade-off… I’ve never met a rich cab driver here, have you?
What I think he’s saying makes some sense:
If driving a cab becomes less profitable, there will be fewer cabs. We pay a premium fare now, but in exchange we are able to hail a cab all hours of the day in more neighborhoods than most other big cities. Why? Because the more profitable a fare is the longer a cab driver can drive around without passengers (and be available when you want one).
I live in Dupont and I’m sure there will always be cabs, so I am not concerned. But those of you living less high traffic neighborhoods, good luck under the new system and think twice about your love of cheap fares.
Everything is a trade-off… I’ve never met a rich cab driver here, have you?
What I think he’s saying makes some sense:
If driving a cab becomes less profitable, there will be fewer cabs. We pay a premium fare now, but in exchange we are able to hail a cab all hours of the day in more neighborhoods than most other big cities. Why? Because the more profitable a fare is the longer a cab driver can drive around without passengers (and be available when you want one).
I live in Dupont and I’m sure there will always be cabs, so I am not concerned. But those of you living less high traffic neighborhoods, good luck under the new system and think twice about your love of cheap fares.
Everything is a trade-off… I’ve never met a rich cab driver here, have you?
Fuck this. I'm boycotting D.C. cabs until the meters go in.
Why does everyone think that suddenly drivers are going to be polite because there is a big company controlling the cab market? You may all have had bad experiences, but driving cabbies out of business isn't going to make the ones who survive nicer/more competent. Paying less is just cutting your nose to spite your face. That said, I'm a fan of the switch to meters because it is a more transparent system (however, I do think the proposed fares are too low).
I get that the expense of adding a meter sucks, but I thought meter fares were designed to be kinda price-neutral, but certain drives were more or less expensive. The fare prices are pretty in line with other cities I've been to, which means if the meters are putting independents out of business, they've been overcharging for their shitty service.
"Price said that in other large U.S. cities, where there are far fewer taxis working for a few large companies, taxi service does not extend to neighborhoods, as it does in the District."
What a crock. I get ditched for wanting to go only as far as the Hill REGULARLY. I'll trade having half as many taxi cabs for having those that are on the road provide a consistent professional level of service.
The drivers brought this upon themselves. If independent drivers hadn't foisted upon us a corrupt and inept Taxi Commission, that enforced professionalism amongst its patrons (enforcing passenger rights, penalizing cheating drivers, etc.) then maybe the populace wouldn't have gone to the extreme. The idealized "independent driver" has given us bad service and bilked us for fraudulent fares. I say bring on the big companies. At least then we'll know whom to hold responsible if they provide the kind of crappy service we now get from an anonymous mob.
Quote: Why does everyone think that suddenly drivers are going to be polite because there is a big company controlling the cab market?
Because when a customer complains to a company about one of their employees, they are more likely to do something about it. When a customer complains to an independent contractor, they tell them to go fuck themselves.
"I thought meter fares were designed to be kinda price-neutral"
The first proposal was -- the last revision by Fenty made fares much less expensive.
Also, when fares suddenly become cheaper for short distances downtown it'll mean fewer cabs. Fewer cabs downtown means no more "just catching a cab" when you are running late for a meeting. It just won't be profitable enough for cabbies to hang around there... and what about Union Station? If cab fares become cheaper, do you think drivers will line up there for 15 or 20 minutes to wait for a passenger? I don't think so. They'll wait until a large crowd shows up and a call goes out for them. Meanwhile, you'll be standing in line for 1/2 hour as the cabs trickle in.
When we pay too much for a cab here versus other cities, we're not just paying for the time we are in the cab, we are paying for the 1/2 hour the driver drove around waiting for us.
I think cabbies aren't allowed to say they won't go somewhere, so you could just get in, then tell them. Assuming the doors aren't locked, as dudelookslikealady noted.
"Because when a customer complains to a company about one of their employees, they are more likely to do something about it."
1) not if it has a monopoly (think your friendly local utility)
2) not if being a cab driver pays so little that no one else want to do it.
I gotta side with the cabbies on this one; they're only trying to buy more time before the inevitable robot takeover.
The cab drivers have it great compared to some other cities. I mean, they CAN ditch you based on destination...
If the cab drivers want the fares to be higher or what not, then give me a bill of rights like New Yorks!
As a taxi rider, you have the right to:
* Pay for your ride with credit/debit card;
* Go to any destination in NYC, Westchester, Nassau, or Newark Airport;
* Direct the route taken: The most direct route or one of your choice;
* A safe and courteous driver who obeys all traffic laws;
* A knowledgeable driver who speaks English and knows City geography;
* Air conditioning or heat on request;
* A noise free trip: no horn honking or radio;
* Clean air. smoke and scent free air;
* Working seatbelts for all passengers;
* A clean taxicab: interior, exterior and partition;
* Be accompanied by a service animal;
* A driver who does not use a cell phone while driving (hand-held or hands free);
* Decline to tip for poor service.
"those of you living less high traffic neighborhoods, good luck under the new system and think twice about your love of cheap fares."
Yeah, well, I lived in the east-of-Lincoln Park neighborhood from 2000 to 2005. I couldn't even see the asshole of a cabdriver with a telescope unless I called one. You're living in a lovely fantasy-land, but it looks very little like what I ever saw on the neighborhood streets where I lived.
And Nathan Price says,
"It's all about the service, how it's going to be impacted when we go to meters."
So - what? They won't overcharge for luggage when meters go into effect? No more free cigarette smoke? No more talking into cell phones while driving?
What goddamn services do they offer that they have to hold over anyone's head? Availability is not service.
In regards to New York's cab situation, the TLC in New York has a tight control over the tax service, to the point that they require all licensed cabs to be the same color - yellow.
In DC, it is far less regulated.
"I think cabbies aren't allowed to say they won't go somewhere, so you could just get in, then tell them. Assuming the doors aren't locked, as dudelookslikealady noted."
That's the point. They don't unlock the doors and ask through the window where you're going--if it's not where they want they drive away. This happened to a friend on U St. just this weekend.
I've also been in the back seat and told by a cabbie he "didn't know" where 20th and Otis NE was. I said the city is on a grid, it's not that hard to find, I'd help him get there. He told me I'd be better off finding someone else. Your choice in that situation is to either A.) sit there, argue, be late for where you're going, and waste valuable police time if it comes to that or B.) find another cab.
Yes, rudeskata, eventually we'll all be riding the SkyWeb Express!
In the meantime, I wouldn't mind a taxi rider's bill of rights. The cabs here are in close competition with Philadelphia over who has the oldest, nastiest, smelliest cabs, but at least in Philly they're cheap.
yawn
Esmeralda, I was thinking more along the lines of Johnny Cabs.
"But those of you living less high traffic neighborhoods, good luck under the new system and think twice about your love of cheap fares."
Its already impossible to get a cab in H street NE.
What difference will this make?
I've got about a mile-long walk home from work, and only saw 3 cabs on the normally busy streets.
I saw a guy standing with his arm out, fruitlessly trying to hail a cab, and when I walked by I told him 'ya know there's a strike on today?' And just that minute, a cab pulled up.
I wish I could conjure up money like that too.
I prefer the system in most developing countries where all fares (except those from the airport) are negotiable. I think we should keep the zone system and introduce haggling. It would be like now, except legitimate.
"Price said that in other large U.S. cities, where there are far fewer taxis working for a few large companies, taxi service does not extend to neighborhoods, as it does in the District."
Nonsense. You can get a cab anywhere you'd like in New York, as well as in Chicago. Obviously since they are meter cabs, your fare is more the farther you go (duh). Also, in Chicago, trips to certain suburbs are straight meter, while others are meter and a half, but regardless, they still have to take you.
Making the zone system transparent using a GPS makes sense to switching to meter. Imagin close to eight thousand cabs work in DC and most of the business is in NW. The whole New York city has only twelve thousand cabs. The reason is, in DC most people use cabs because it is reasonable and you know the price before getting in to the cab no matter how bad the traffic is. Just make the Zone system transparent if the issue is transparency. If companies monopolize it, it will be less cabies around and more expensive.
The cab drivers and this group is BS. The reason a small number of companies run cabs in *Manhattan*--as distinguished from the other 4 boroughs of New York City--is that NYC's cab commission auctions off the medallions that cabs must have to legally pick up passengers in Manhattan (which is most profitable). The little guys can't afford the medallions, but they sure are happy to pony up to lease a cab with a medallion and make some dough (not that I envy them). Some NYC cabs split their use of the cab into shifts to make the most of their cab leases.
In the other 4 boroughs, it's a different story. People call the cabs that service the outer boroughs "gypsy cabs" (remember the Royal Tennebaums?) because any small business person can run one, and they aren't as tightly regulated as the Manhattan cabs. Like the cabs in DC, gypsy cabs can be pretty sketchy and poorly maintained. However, they respond quickly to phone calls. DC cabs, in my experience, aren't too good with phone calls.
Unlike DC cabs, even the NYC gypsy cabs are better than DC cabs. First of all, they fall over themselves trying to pick up passengers (even in Manhattan, where they're not supposed to), they troll around the outer boroughs like Brooklyn and the Bronx (because they have to); and they tend to be very responsive because they need every sliver of business counts; those with poor service don't survive. Contrast that with DC: how many cabs do you see trolling Anacostia? How many times have you been left standing outside of 18th Street lounge because you weren't going the direction the DC cabbie wanted to go? How many times have you called a cab, only to wait for an hour or so for anyone to show up (only to be subjected to the privilege of paying the phone call surcharge)?
DC would do well to auction medallions like NYC for cabs to be able to service areas like downtown and the monuments. Not only would it raise some revenue (for a new soccer stadium?!), it might force cabs to outlying areas and, heck, maybe even improve their service so they can compete.
The other benefit is that NYC has used the new medallions to implement their green cab program.
People in DC use cabs because it's reasonable, bensol? Then why does a trip from Dupont Circle to Adams Morgan cost $8.80 plus $1.50 a person? If there are three of you going from Dupont to Adams Morgan which is maybe a 10 block ride, it costs $12.80. Tell me how that is reasonable.
The mayor can't have it both ways. If he prefers the meter system, then he shouldn't put a cap of maximum $18.90. If the cabbie stucks in traffic for an hour, he should be paid for the time spent in traffic.
inlogan, how about the other way round? most of the time people take cabs from capitol hill or Union Station to dupont circle for just $6.50 without the gas surcharge. This trip might take half an hour or more depending on traffic.
BikeDC raises some very valid points. Sometimes we forget that we aren't reinventing the wheel. Every other major city in the US does meters, and they do just fine. In fact, it's only after I go to other cities and ride in reasonably safe cabs with courteous, decent drivers that I remember that by comparison DC cabs are essentially the crappiest thing on wheels.
in the spirit of celebrating love, i'm staying in tonight for a romantic evening with myself, and don't care what the taxis are doing or not....
My pet peeve is high number of people driving on other's licenses. It'd be great if meters could somehow cut down on the lending/leasing of cabs and licenses to people who have neither.
Bensoi:
To take a cab from Union Station going the other way (towards Capitol Hill NE) and you go less than three blocks and the fare is $10.80 during rush hour.
There's simply no excuse for that. None.
And, again, it's not what the mayor prefers. It's what the vast majority of taxpaying citizens of DC prefer.
Face it. Actual taxpaying residents of DC HATE the zone system, and we hate the way the considerable majority of cabbies in this town treat us.
The industry you try so hard to support in DC sucks ass, and we're tired of it.
This whole strike ploy makes me like the DC cabs even less. I was actually planning on patronizing them when the meters were put in cabs.
www.districtchatter.com
Hillman
Unless you are speaking for the whole DC residents, the majority of DC residents I know prefer the Zone system albiet with a transprent way. Whatever the case is, if we switch to the meter system it ain't goning to be cheap the way you are expecting it to be. Weather we like it or not the mayor will eventually negotiate the price with the cabbies and when that happens it is going to be at least the same us VA or MD meter prices. In VA the initial price is $2.75 and each 1/6 a mile 0.34 cents which is the same as $2.04 per mile plus $1.25 each additional passenger and also waiting time is $0.34 per each 51 seconds. In MD initial $4.00 and $1.80 each additional mile plus waiting time.
IT IS NOT GOING TO BE CHEAPER THAN THE ZONE SYTEM WHICH EVER WAY YOU CLCULATE IT. JUST BECAUSE THE CABBIES ARE AGAINST MONOPOLY, IT DOESN'T MEAN CHEAP DEALS ARE COMING.
Yes, I speak for every single DC resident.
Honestly, I have yet to meet a single actual DC resident that isn't a cab driver that prefers zones. Not one. And the VAST majority of online chat and such backs that up.
You simply can't justify charging $11 to go five blocks.
Just curious - do you have ties to the cabbie industry? I hesitate to ask such a question, but so far you haven't mounted much of an argument that differs much from the BS that the cabbies have been spouting, and it doesn't really seem like your arguments reflect the actual reality of taking cabs in DC.
Bring on the freaking pedicabs already!
I don't care about the other way, bensol. I want you to tell me how a trip from Dupont to Adams Morgan that costs $12.80 for three people is reasonable. You can't.
I don't care about the trip from Union Station to Dupont because I'm not taking that trip! By the end of the day short, two-zone trips and long, one-zone trips only even out for the driver, not the rider making a single trip.
A meter is the only way to make it fair for the passenger and the cabbie.
"Honestly, I have yet to meet a single actual DC resident that isn't a cab driver that prefers zones."
I'm no longer a resident, but I did prefer zones when I was there. Didn't use cabs much, but when I did I liked the fact that I knew the fare ahead of time and didn't have to worry what route the cabbie took to get to SW. As I recall from past threads, there are a few others that preferred zones. But in any case, it does seem that the majority wants meters.
"Honestly, I have yet to meet a single actual DC resident that isn't a cab driver that prefers zones."
As it happens, before the Mayor made his decision Zogby did a poll of DC residents asking them which they preferred: time and distance meters, zone meters, or the zone system. The results:
Time and distance meter: 38%
Zone meter: 33%
Zone system: 28%
Supporters of the zone meter and zone system were disproportionately likely to be older, come from Wards 5 and 7, ride cabs occasionally or rarely, and have little to no experience riding cabs anywhere else. Supporters of the time and distance meter were disproportionately likely to be younger, come from Wards 2 and 3, ride cabs frequently or very frequently, and have a great deal of experience with riding cabs in other cities.
Zones versus meters aside, I will say one thing: the "frequency of riding" factor in preferring zones versus meters makes perfect sense. The zone system is a "risk averse" choice -- average fares may be higher, but the downside risk is much lower. If you ride a lot, things average out, and meters will save you money. If you ride only every once in a while, it's quite possible that every time you took a taxi coincided with a period of terrible traffic, and you're screwed.
"Honestly, I have yet to meet a single actual DC resident that isn't a cab driver that prefers zones. Not one. And the VAST majority of online chat and such backs that up."
You must be joking or you are not from DC.
"I don't care about the trip from Union Station to Dupont because I'm not taking that trip"
Thats why I said "do not speak on behalf of DC residents" - Just speak for yourself because as you clearly said you don't care about others.
"Just curious - do you have ties to the cabbie industry?"
what if I ask you if you are related to the companies who are salivating to monopolize the industry? how about that?
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS Zogby did a poll of DC residents asking them which they preferred: time and distance meters, zone meters, or the zone system. The results:
Time and distance meter: 38%
Zone meter: 33%
Zone system: 28%
IF YOU CAN CALCULATE THE MATHS, THE MAJORITY OF DC RESIDENTS ARE AGAINST METER.
WHO DO WE TRUST? THE ZOGBY POLL OR A CERTEN "POLITBURO" WHO CLAIMS TO KNOW THE PREFENCE OF DC RESIDENTS.
For what it's still worth, I got in to Union Station at 8pm yesterday after a business trip to New York. I normally take the Metro home, but my wife picked me up b/c we had Valentine's plans.
Anyway, the cab line was at least 100 people long and there was one cabbie picking people up. He was also arguing with some frustrated people standing in line...
Public transit is where it's at. Let the cabbies strike all they want, it's not going to stop me from getting where I need to. My two cents, seeing as everyone has already put in their $20 worth to this topic.
Pay attention bensol -- I didn't make those comments.
IF YOU CAN CALCULATE THE MATHS, THE MAJORITY OF DC RESIDENTS ARE AGAINST METER.
Actually, if you can calculate the maths, the majority of DC residents are against everything.
(Save that paragraph. I'm certain it'll be applicable in many other circumstances.)
The poll result is almost Delphic in its generality, actually. The same poll data Bensol argues demonstrates that most DC residents are against meters was also used by the Mayor to demonstrate that most DC residents want meters (since, hey, 71% wanted some kind of meter). I'm inclined to believe that a majority of DC residents probably don't want time and distance meters, but the minority that does:
1. Feels much more strongly about it.
2. Is growing much faster than the city as a whole.
3. Probably accounts for a majority of taxicab trips in the city.
4. Has the support of the tourism and hospitality industries and the media.
Personally, given the traffic levels in DC and my risk-averse personality I'd prefer the zone meter, but I can't say I'm surprised with how the process has turned out.
Incidentally, since people are accusing other commenters of being in the pocket of one side or another of this issue, a disclaimer: in a professional capacity, I have had occasion to work with the DC Taxicab Commission, and will probably be called upon to do so again in the future. Any opinions expressed on this topic are solely mine and do not reflect those of my employer.
Bensol, I'm not speaking for anyone else, and I never claimed I was. I care about fairness.
How is it fair that the trip from Dupont to Adams Morgan for 3 people is $12.80 while the trip from Union Station to Dupont for 3 people is $9.50?
If the cab driver makes both of those tips, it averages out for him. However, the people making the former trip are subsidizing the latter trip.
One particular route should be not subsidizing another route.
Time and distance meters remove that subsidy and make people pay for the exact trip they take.
Oh, Bensol. Typing in all caps doesnt make your losing argument any better.
And no, I am not tied to any cab companies. Are you? I'm not saying that disqualifies your opinion. I'm just saying it would explain it.
Hillman
"Honestly, I have yet to meet a single actual DC resident that isn't a cab driver that prefers zones. Not one."
hummm just because you didn't meet anybody that is pro-zone system it doesn't mean there aren't any. Are you sure you are fom DC? just wondering lol
38% of DC residents say, "What, you guys still? Knock it off already."
35% of DC residents say, "Where are the naked-lady pictures?"
26% of DC residents say, "I'm not reading all these damn comments."
Really? LOL? Are you 12?
Yes, I'm from DC.
And I take it from your unwillingness to answer that you have ties to the DC cab 'community'?