They couldn't mug you if you would WALK down the escalators!! Lazy $#%#&&

Despite all the arguments against gentrification, I would gladly welcome it if it actually meant getting rid of these f'ing criminals.

Granted, living in any city bears this risk of getting mugged, but this is rediculous.

At least they weren't throwing rocks.

Anybody who's spent more than five minutes near 13th and Kenyon knows it's going to take a lot more than some shiny stripmall to fix Columbia Heights' problems.

A bunch of people walking out of a store with shiny new electronics and media, within a few blocks of public housing in both directions, that is going to be awesome!

Sounds like MPD needs to do a good amount of undercover stings with cops walking around with iPods or with packages in Target and Best Buy bags. If this kind of crime continues, two things will happen: 1) people will not use Metro to do their shopping at the new stores; and 2) people who might have gone to the new stores will continue going to VA and MD where it's "safer."

I've lived in Columbia Heights for two years now, and only recently have I had major crime problems. Three times in past six weeks, sometime has tried to break into my apartment late at night. I'm looking into finding a new place to live.

As for problems related to the new Target, in the two days the store has been open I've seen so many near-accidents caused by people swerving around each other trying to get into the underground Park off the 14th and Park intersection, and have been nearly run over twice, both times by someone running a red light to turn left onto Park.

What is this Cityplace the listserve excerpt mentions and what happened to it in the 90's?

I wish I had control over the school system. Military style school for all with 2 hours worth of exercise afterwards

Yeah, because that's exactly what we need -- fitter hoodlums who can catch the people walking down the escalators as well.

Glad I get off at U Street before things turn Wild West 1 stop up.

Wow, I lived in CH for 5 years and never had a single problem. Judging from the rest of the comments it's seems like I was extraordinarily lucky.

What do those numbers mean Esmeralda?

shit, my comment never went through.

oh well, what i was trying to say was that the whole campus progress article sucks. it's just a bunch of college-age whining about how "the evil gentrifiers" are ruining another "real" neighborhood.

read the dupont current article about columbia heights this week. they actually interview someone who has lived there for at least 50 years, and she talks about how excited she is to see retail moving back to the area (yes, that's right kiddies, columbia heights used to be a retail hub before the riots).

this isn't displacement, this is a return to the way things used to be...

In regards to density -- it's also important to consider that probably one of the reasons the "risk" in AdMo and G'town is higher is b/c the calculation doesn't include all the extra people who go to those neighborhoods for shopping and nightlife. It's possible, but my guess is that risk is based purely on crimes per resident.

Mount Pleasant has a much lower crime rate than Columbia Heights, so by combining the two neighborhoods you're not going to get meaningful data on Columbia Heights.

The hyperbole never ends when it comes to DC crime and the "evils" of gentrification. I've lived in Mt. Pleasant for 2.5 years and never even been hassled, and I've used that metro tons of times and never felt unsafe. I admit I've probably been fortunate, but it's by no means the case that everyone who lives here is running into these problems.

Moreover, I walked to the new Target yesterday and street traffic was no worse than normal (actually better now that all the Jersey barriers/closed sidewalks are gone). And I'm pretty thrilled that I can walk to Target and have a huge selection of stuff I need that is actually in stock. It looked to me like a lot of working class African-American and Latino shoppers were pretty happy too. Yeah, it's such a blow to the neighborhood.

As for those who moved out of or decided not to move into CH; good. Prices are too high already.

Cranky: you might want to remove the quotes around "safer". This is a shot in the dark, but I'm willing to bet the probability of getting mugged at the Targets in, say, Potomac Yards or further down Rt1 in Alexandria is lower than in CH. I live off U St. and try to do my shopping locally, but I'm in no great hurry to head to CH to do my big-box shopping. Not yet, anyway.

Agree with dcstadiumnow, but in the five years I've lived there, there have been at least two homicides in Mt. Pleasant (the first, gang-related five years ago, the other, a random guy apparently minding his own business). In terms of overall crime though, I'd agree that Mt. Pleasant definitely seems safer than Columbia Heights.

I've been living around Cardozo HS since September and haven't had any problems, luckily, although I see drugs getting slinged from Clifton Terrace on a regular basis. Those gangs piss me off. It's terribly sad that, for some reason, kids feel like joining a stupid wannabe gang is the only road towards upward social mobility. Or something.

I think a lot of these brats are under 18, where is where the problem lies. DC juvenile crime laws are ridiculously lenient. The following needs to happen before anything will change:

a) juvenile laws must become harsher
b) DC public education needs to stop being a freakin joke
c) parents need to grow some balls and take responsibility for their kids, at least know where they/what they're doing after school!

On another note, when I went out late I got in the habit of carrying a swiss army knife with me. My roommate just told me this is constitutes carrying a concealed weapon and is illegal.

Great, so there's literally no way to protect myself other than by taking Marshal Arts Classes? It's completely perverse.

Why is it that when I saw "CH/MP" I read "CHIMP?"

You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!

14th and Park was also the location of the first Hot Shoppes, which eventually evolved into the Marriot Corporation. Locals of a certain age will fondly remember the Mighty Mo, one of the tastiest sammitches ever devised.

I used to live 2 blocks from what is now the store. There's ALWAYS been a high rate of crime in Mt Pleasant and Columbia Heights. It's going to go up definitely for a bit due to the influx of "new" people.

Re: the facade that they saved to get building code/tax code breaks: There was a post office there too I seem to recollect. My grandmother used to live a few blocks away and used to see movies at the Tivoli "during the war." I've always been afraid of being rude by asking which war she means.

With respect to the crime, a lot of the kids around the neighborhood are really nice but some are total jerks. The biggest issue for violent crime is with the local crews messing with each other. (ahem, 17th and Euclid) That's where the violence mainly comes from, though there is some crime upon the general public. I am a big dude, and was largely left alone in the years I lived there. I heard a lot of gunshots and witnessed a few truly odd crimes; notably a homeless dude in a wheelchair and one on crutches unsuccessfully attempting to put the 7 am beatdown on a medical resident who was built like a brick maison de la merde.

There is another component to it though: 14th street is notorious for dudes catcalling and or groping women. The area between 14th street and Georgia Ave. also has a very high concentration of sex offenders living in the area. Go here and enter 1400 Irving street NW on the mapping function and find out more than you wanted to know about the people in your hood: http://www.familywatchdog.us

In terms of lumping Mount Pleasant into the stats -- acknowledged that you have more crime across 16th Street, but I doubt the difference is big enough to totally skew the numbers.

Hells yeah, it's big enough to totally skew the numbers.

PSA 301 (Mt. Pleasant) has the lowest crime rate of any PSA east of Rock Creek Park, while PSA 302 (Columbia Heights) has one of the highest crime rates in the Third District. According to MPD's CrimeMap website (http://crimemap.dc.gov/), over the past year, PSA 301 has reported 116 violent crimes and 408 property crimes; PSA 302 has reported 507 violent crimes and 1093 property crimes. Columbia Heights has as much violent crime as Mt. Pleasant has crime, period.

My back-of-the-envelope calculations suggest that Colunbia Heights and Mt. Pleasant, taken together, have a murder rate about twice the national average. This is pretty much entirely due to Columbia Heights. Columbia Heights has a murder rate about three times the national average, while Mt. Pleasant has been at or below the national average since, at least, 2005.

Note, though, the fundamental truth of murder rates -- murder is just not very common, even in DC. The national death rate from automobile accidents is higher than the murder rate in Columbia Heights. Montana, Mississippi, and Wyoming have higher death rates for drunken-driving accidents alone than Columbia Heights' murder rate.

I had a temporary part time job in Colombia Heights for two months that involved me being there from 6:00 PM to sometimes as late as 2:00 and I never had any problem. You want to know why? Becuase I treated the people who lived there with respect. I didnt ignore them as if they didnt exist or brush by the quickly. I greted them with hellos and how's it going, or pardon me mamm or pardon me sir to my elders. I didnt act like the beggers on the corner were talking piles of garbage. If I had some extraa change or smoke I gavce it to them. If I didnt I told them that I didnt have anything. I also didnt walk donw the street with my head down not looking anyonew in the eye.

I would bet dollars to dunuts most of these people were walking and acting like victims already just waiting to get robbed.

PSA 302 also has twice the population as PSA 301 -- 22,000 vs. 11,000 (2000 Census).

Crime rates bsed on those numbers:
PSA 301 had .04 crimes per capita
PSA 302 had .07 crimes per capita
Together they had .06 crimes per capita. So basically, when you combine the two it makes Columbia Heights look slightly safer and it makes Mount Pleasant look much less safe.

I didn't mean to get everyone bogged down in statistics. I was merely trying to illustrate the point that maybe we shouldn't all run screaming to the suburbs (or at the very least west of Rock Creek Park).

You know, when I lived between Dupont and Adams Morgan I barely even was aware that there was crime around me, even though if you look at the crime map, there was TONS. It's very interesting how one's perception of what is and is not a safe neighborhood doesn't always jibe with the actual rate of crime.

According to the WP toy you are nearly three times as likely to be a crime victim in Georgetown as you are in Logan Circle or Anacostia.

If you look closely at the disclaimer at the bottom of the page, the Post defines "crime" as "exploitation of the proletariat by yankee imperialist running dog."

All this talk of peace-and-love is really honking off their Red Chinese masters.

I would bet dollars to dunuts most of these people were walking and acting like victims

O yes, I was just begging for it. Sarcasim aside, I love my neighborhood, I love how such a wide variety of people live there and generally how friendly people are. But I think its fair to say that that's a little too friendly.

Okay. I should know better than to trust the Washington Post.

Although to be fair to them (or to OnBoard LLC, the folks who compile the statistics) I'd love to see their methodology. I've been looking for it, but no luck.

"Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent.
Forfty percent of all people know that"

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

You have to admit though, it would be kind of cool if it turned out that Columbia Heights was safer than Georgetown. Of course, it would have to be kept a secret or the next thing you know the LNS crowd would be showing up at Marx, Tonic, and Wonderland and before you'd know it we've have an all-out LNS vs. Hipster war and Jim Graham and Jack McKay would be sending notices out to neighborhood listservs warning about the escalating violence and assuring us that the MPD was on the case . . . oh, the horror!

Okay, I'm really not going to post anymore today, I promise!

My understanding is that the crime map is WaPo data, but that the "fact sheet" about each neighborhood (including crime stats) is courtesy of some organization call OnBoard LLC. The describe (somewhat) their methodology here. They say they get their data from the FBI - I suppose it's possible the District does a really crappy job of informing the FBI of what's going on?

"Too bad there's no conceal-carry laws on the books"

Yeah, because then we could be safe like Richmond and New Orleans. Their conceal-carry laws sure have worked out well.

As long as you don't try to buy your weed in the projects of Columbia Heights, your risk of getting shot here is very, very low.

@suances
"Violent crimes per 1000 people:

PSA 302 (Col.Heights): 22.7
PSA 301 (Mt. Pleasant): 7.7
PSA 206 (Georgetown): 5.9"

Good try, but GT's been built out for a long long time, and so has had a relatively stable population. Pretty much the same is true for MP. That's not at all true for CH, though, which has famously seen a population boom. Those census numbers need need need to be adjusted. Someone quasi-famous once quipped about the "incredible shrinking Ward 1"...

That aside, people who are 'fraid that their 52" plasma makes them a target on the street are fools. It makes you a target if people see you carrying it in your front door!

I'm sure some new cameras (but only if they have actual po-lice watching them) will stop those muggings in their tracks...

@downtown rez: I used the most recent numbers available. If you have more recent ones, I'd like to know what they are.

In any case, even if Columbia Heights population increased by 50% in the last 7 years (which would be incredible), the density-adjusted crime rate would still be double that in Mt. Pleasant and almost triple that in Georgetown.

@suances:

Check out what the Downtown Neighborhood Assoc has done to track mid-census population changes in (generally) the Penn Quarter/Mt Vernon Square/NoMa area. It can be done, but only with effort. I's not like these numbers fall out of the sky for free. A shortcut might be to compile a list of major residential building projects and figure (guestimate) the multiplier based on occupancy rates.

What is it about the internet that brings out the gun nuts? I'm guessing because these fearful, timid people with irrational fantasies don't have to leave their houses and weapons caches behind to post.