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Photograph of Pope Benedict XVI by Pier Paolo Cito/Associated Press
It's fair to say that Washington's Catholic community is currently up to its eyeballs in Pope Fever, what with the pontiff's exclusive April 17 mass at the new Nationals stadium only a little over a month away. Turns out, Pope Benedict XVI will be bringing more than the Popemobile with him to D.C. Bloomberg News reports that today the Vatican has officially created seven brand new sins, which will no doubt be the cornerstone of many of the Pope's big upcoming masses.
The new so-called "social sins" are in addition to the familiar "deadly sins" that that crazy dude in that movie used as a reason to kill Gwyneth Paltrow. The new sins are:
1. 'Bioethical' violations such as birth controlJust to clear up any confusion, the original sins, Pride, Envy, Gluttony, Lust, Anger, Greed and Sloth, are still in effect. We repeat, these new sins don't cancel out the old ones, so get off your butt and quit lusting after your boss who you are so envious of that you're stealing from the company and boasting about it. And while you're at it, stop taking the Pill, smoking weed, littering and conducting potentially lifesaving medical research. Otherwise, you'll never get one of those coveted papal mass tickets.
2. 'Morally dubious' experiments such as stem cell research
3. Drug abuse
4. Polluting the environment
5. Contributing to widening divide between rich and poor
6. Excessive wealth
7. Creating poverty
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Damn, and I just finished doing a three after four-ing my commode and one-ing my right hand.
Well, so much for me getting into heaven.
New Sin Number 6: Excessive wealth
Is Pope Benedict going to sell the Vatican jewels, like Anthony Quinn in Shoes of the Fisherman?
Where does being a pretentious dick fall into the lineup of grave sins? What if you're attracted to pretentious dicks and you happen to be one yourself? Do the two cancel out each other?
ok, that picture should have force lightning coming off his fingers.....
just sayin'.
what did this post have to do with DC? sommer is mad. why are you so mad, girl?
5. Contributing to widening divide between rich and poor
6. Excessive wealth
So the Vatican is against capitalism?
5. Contributing to widening divide between rich and poor
6. Excessive wealth
So the Vatican is against capitalism?
Vatican was very interested in communism pre-WW2, however the feeling was not mutual.
For some reason, I pegged Benny as a steel watchband kinda guy.
Excessive wealth?
What?
The Vatican has untold billions, just in artwork hanging in the fucking Vatican basement. You know, the crappy stuck they won't even deign to hang in public.
I shudder to think the good they could be doing with all that.
But no.
dcistlurker: Benedict is coming to town. He's making a list; he's checking it twice . . . and there are new sins.
Sommer is giving us the heads-up on the new sins so we can get our bizness straight. That's a public service, and darn skippy of her.
It is truly sad to read that so many people have not experienced true and authentic love, the love that only comes from God alone. The way so many have a disregard to the very church that Jesus Christ instituted himself.
Thanks to the wisdom of many great leaders of our universal church on earth, there is a preservation of history and beautiful inspirational artwork that leads one to reflect on the glory of God and the beauty of all His creation.
It would be wise to thank our church leaders and the vicar of Christ, Pope Benedict, to remind us that our individual actions really do have an effect on others...our sins truly do not effect us alone.
All Glory be to God.
In Jesus, through Mary.
Need help with knowing that Jesus came to REDEEM us from our sin, not add more laws or mere coping mechanisms? Visit http://www.giftfoundation.org
http://www.theologyofthebody.com
It's also pretty much an exact (although somewhat expanded) copy of a post that was on Gothamist earlier in the day, so it didn't take much effort . . .
Nice Christ-y spam, Pleskowicz.
Who Would Jesus Spam, indeed.
re: pleskowicz -- it's interesting to see fresh blood around here, instead of us regulars who are just stinkin' up the joint, but i'm not used to being proselytized in a blog...
Oh, I'll bite.
Plesky - care to justify the massive private holdings the Catholic Church has?
The massive art and real estate holdings?
Care to explain why that $$ isn't spend on helping the poor?
Thank you all for your kind words. I truly was making no effort to proselytize anyone. It's just a shame that so many people push away talking about an objective reality...relativism is so rampid and has really aided in distorting any type of objective truth.
These "new" sins, we must remember, all stem from the seven deadly sins, which in truth you will admit, widen the distance between us and God. God gave us our free will so that we would freely choose to love Him, otherwise he would have just made it that way...and that's not really love at all, is it?
Peace be with you, Hillman:
Can you speak more on the "massive private holdings"? What specifically are you referring to?
As to my knowledge, the Church is the universal church which serves the entire world, not just a few countries. I believe the Catholic church is the largest group of people doing more than any one else in the world in helping the poor. Are you aware of other groups that are doing more?
+JMJ+
he looks like a zombie in that picture
starts out strong, loses steam with #4, then crashes into poverty creation.
Also, 'morally dubious' experimentation like "let's play doctor."
Wait... objective reality... hardcore Christian... does not compute...
Hey Plesk: Love the J-man? More power to you. But let's not pretend it's objective. It ain't, which is part of the point. You wouldn't call it faith if there were proof.
We Don't Need No Stinkin' Extra Sins.
"Can you speak more on the "massive private holdings"? What specifically are you referring to?"
Well, for starters, Vatican City. Lovely temperate climate. Wouldn't that make a fine shelter for the poor?
And the hundreds of massive and unbelievably ornate church buildings in the US alone.
Wouldn't the proceeds from the sale of some of these save millions of starving children?
you'd think 'touching little boys' would be a sin.
hillman - anyone with a remedial knowledge of finance knows that raising cash from the CFI line on your cash flow statements is not a good sign for your operation. and thats before considering you raising the Church's assets without considering the amount of charity $$$, time, energy, and effort Catholics put out every year, which could pay for the Vatican City a few times over every year. do the math....
mike licht - i like my dcist minus sommer being mad at the Catholic church - dcist has already posted a few times about the pope coming - this is more an editorial about her own sh** which is a rare BORING post on an otherwise on point blog...i see you came to her defense though - thats cute.
Hillman:
You still haven't addressed the fact that the Catholic Church is, has, and will continue to do more than any other group in the world when it comes to helping the poor.
Peace be with you.
BeyondDC:
Objective reality. Example being: If you are in a room with no windows and you personally have such a great amount of faith and belief that it is a clear, sunny day of 75 degrees and you then leave the room to step outside only to discover that it has been snowing for the past two hours and there are 3-4 inches accumulated.
Due to our sins, our vision can be blurred to see that what we do in life truly does effect others--however, we usually only see this when good things happen. Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven, which are freely offered to all of humanity. And, we all have an innate yearning and desire to be in union with God, like the echo of Adam and Eve (before they listened to the father of lies) that resounds deep within every human person. Through grace, we can experience a taste of that perfect union with God, a foretaste of our union with Him in heaven.
For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Peace.
I think I'm going to borrow from plesko's line of arguement/defense style. It kind of reminds me of the "bless her/his heart" but less country and more oh, judeo-christiany which warms my bitter agnostic heart.
For example:
1. "Gosh Susan, you look different today." - Mildly insulting
2. "Gosh Susan, you certainly did gain some weight while you were gone. For a second there I thought you were pregnant but then I remembered that you can't have kids. Peace be with you." - Not insulting at all.
The fact that some believe in a Creator really seems to wig people out. If all of the haters here are so comfortable with the non-belief, why all the vitriol? The tone of the comments remind me my junior-high years when kids first discovered they could talk back to their parents and thought how cool they were when they said outlandish, hurtful and irreverent things. It’s kind of pathetic.
Taken on balance and not ignoring some of the bad actions by some of its clergy and members, the Catholic Church has done more to foster human rights and peace around the world than any other institution. In spite of the fact that people make mistakes and sometimes act in evil ways, we are better off with institutions of faith to keep the society cognizant of the value of aspiring to live for others and not just for oneself.
You still haven't addressed the fact that the Catholic Church is, has, and will continue to do more than any other group in the world when it comes to helping the poor.
Indeed. Think of all those sad Catholic children dying alone without any siblings. Only by speaking the truth about the evils of birth control can we ever repopulate the globe with millions of children so that they may die in squalor and thereby gain the Kingdom of Heaven and experience God's love.
What Would Judas Do?
Pee(ce) be with you.
And if there's anything I've learned from Jack Chick tracts, it's that Catholics ARE NOT Christians. They're Isis worshippers who use their albino assasins in Opus Dei to protect the Ark of the Covenant from Nazis and the Da Vinci Code from Tom Hanks and Audrey Tatou.
Plesko:
I never said the Catholic Church doesn't do some good.
What I'm saying is they could do a whole lot more.
They have probably the most extensive collection of art in the entire world. So much so that many people say they actually have no way of cataloging it all.
And they are the biggest private landholder in the entire world.
You don't need fancy churches and huge art collections to continue operating.
Why don't they sell at least the art collection and use that money for the poor?
And how about they stop spending their resources fighting to make sure that an old destitute lesbian couple can't get health care or government benefits, and instead spend those resources on, say, AIDS babies in Africa?
Catholics ARE NOT Christians?
monkeyrotica:
How can you possibly write this? This is truly absurd and one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard. It is simply so sad that you personally have not experienced an authentic love that comes from Christ. I will encourage you to visit a Roman Catholic church to sit in front of the eucharist (Jesus' body, blood, and soul and divinity present within the tabernacle) to pray. Yes, you can pray anywhere. But, when you really need to speak to a friend when in need, isn't it better to talk with them face to face rather than on the phone?
+JMJ+
I will encourage you to visit a Roman Catholic church to sit in front of the eucharist (Jesus' body, blood, and soul and divinity present within the tabernacle) to pray.
I have serious problems with a belief system that encourages cannibalism and whose primary symbol is an instrument of torture.
And we've got a word for people who come back from the dead and demand that people eat their flesh and drink their blood to be reborn into new worlds where His flesh is your key. They're called vampires.
I'll stick with worshipping the Fightin' Jesus (the One that DIDN'T get nailed).
(imgoph patiently waits for two things. one, how is monkey going to reply to this, and two, when is plessy going to figure out monkey's sense of humor)
Seven more reasons to leave the church.
Plesko, as one Catholic to another, please get of your holy soapbox. Thank you.
As for these sins: really? They seem awfully specific. Personally, I'm going to stick with the old school sins that can be applied to a wide variety of circumstances.
Would that "bioethical violations" include something along the lines of creating a mutant cyborg orangutan killing machine? For the sake of argument, let's call him "Shemp." Also, if I sent Shemp back in time to kill Hitler, would it still be considered a sin, since he'd be doing this BEFORE the Pope declared his very existence a sin? Finally, anyone know where I can get a good price on an orangutan, or barring that, what's left of one? I pretty much got the rest of the hardware I need from Radio Shack, including the lavender princess telephone and the flux capacitor.
I know I will have to go to confession for this, but does the pope's pose strike anyone as resembling that of Palpatine in Star Wars III?
Ples-- didn't the Gates foundation, UN, hell just about anyone else, outspend the Vatican last year in regards to helping the poor?
The only thing the chruch does to help the poor is keep them breeding and donating. I offer as support: 2000 years of the church -and- poor people still hanging around wherever the big C. church is most prevelant. Have you spent time in Central/South America? That place has been cleaned out by the church, like a vacuum cleaner with one long hose straight to the Papal holdings-for about 400 years now.
Yeah, IMGoph cited that in post #4.
That pic needs a bubble that says, "If only you knew the POWER of my tiny little HAT! Now, young Skywalker, you...will...DIE!"
You only need to go to confession if it's a sin to be the 12,000th person to make the same comparison, Cranky . . .
Orangutans are pretty hard to come by at this time of year, Monkey ... have you considered the possibility of a chimp? They have the bonus of being much more naturally violent, plus there are hundreds of them living in plush retirement sanctuaries who might be bored and looking for a new career challenge. If you're really lucky, they'll even have some cool mutant powers from the medical tests that were conducted on them while they were young.
Ok, first of all, monkey, you make me laugh. I love your sarcasm(even though I think you're wrong on the actual issue here). Just wanted to let you know. lol
Guys, I posted this in the gothamist site but I figure it could be used here, too. (Since its the same exact article >_>)
Another prespective on this.
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=57130
If, after approximately 2000 years of your religion's existence, you find the need for a 100% increase in list of activities that your religion considers "sins", then maybe your religion wasn't really that well thought out in the first place.
Meh. The mutant monkey assasin thing has been done before.
I don't quite see the point in the Vatican creating new sins when they haven't even begun to build that new Circle in Hell to hold the sinners from the last batch.
New Sins?? Damn I hadnt finished the last list yet and now they are piling on more???
Jesus Chri.... opps Sorry.
Sin #8. Catholic priests molesting children
I take it pleskowicz has left the building?
Not much else you can do once someone calls your savior "a vampire." Kinda the religious equivalent of Godwin's Law.
I don't think Shemp the Timetravelling Cyborg Oranguntan helped, either.
Meanwhile, Shemp put me in a better mood than I've been in all day, and I haven't even really been in a bad one.
Let me tell you something, bendeco. You pull any your crazy s**t with us, you flash a piece out on the lanes, I'll take it away from you and stick it up your a** and pull the f***ing trigger til it goes "click".
You said it, man. Nobody f***s with the Monkey.
All I can say, is...WOW. Thank you all for reminding me how far humanity has gone to widen the relationship with God and his people.
No soapbox, here. Your words speak for yourselves.
It is quite sad. Truly sad, that many of you would speak so poorly to another. And to think, I am only witness to what I read here. Imagine all of the garbage that Jesus sees, day in and day out. Oh, the mercy he has on us. Oh, thanks be to God He has such mercy on us all.
Best wishes to a fruitful and fulfilling life to you all.
Peace.
All Glory Be To God!
Alleluia wrote:
Another prespective on this.
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=57130
Great article. Well done.
Thank you!
Alleluia wrote:
Another prespective on this.
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=57130
Great article. Well done.
Thank you!
And to think, I am only witness to what I read here. Imagine all of the garbage that Jesus sees, day in and day out.
Truer words were never spoken.
monkey rot -
why are you so mad?
"its not your fault.....its not your fault.....its not your fault" (c) robin williams to good will hunting
Don't you find it irritating when some "christians" don't pay any attention to their scripture?
Plesko:
You never answered my question.
But don't feel bad. I've been asking that question for decades, and so far no one has been willing to answer.
Monkey:
You know what I love about that verse? God is punishing some adult's children for acts of the adult.
Yeah, that's a deity I want to believe in.
So is using condoms for gay sex okay, since it's technically not birth control?
pleskowicz, your logical order is one that reads: if you disagree with me, then you're far from God (ie, in Hell)... Well, that's not really an open discussion then, is it? IS it possible that one can still disagree and still not be in Hell. And if not, do you still wonder why some folks' reactions aren't too happy with that?
If it is possible to discuss other options/religions/points-of-view THEN maybe we can get some where. But "I'm right and you're going to hell" kinda backs one into a corner. That's what ex ecclesio nulla salvatio gets you.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the well wishes for the fulfilling life part. But that's just to answer your question on powerful reactions against.
Sorry, was trying to show off when I sould've been wikiing off.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_Ecclesiam_nulla_salus
I'm a pedantic misanthrope apostate, too, if you were wondering. Don't ever expect me to spell something right. Just as a disclaimer. It's a genetic deficiency. and yes, I had to look up how to speel deficiency, so be proud of me.
julia, that's hilarious. and yes, you do.
Plesko,
Please comment on the priest molestation scandals that are still continuing. That is a horrible series of sins that extended to more than just a couple "bad apples" in the Seminary. I'm a former Catholic & I'm curious of your justification or explanation of it.
LooLoo, a little evidence that it wasn't just a couple of "bad apples", please? The last statistics I heard were that 1/4-1/2 of 1% of Catholic preists in the USA were involved in the pedophilia scandals. Could be wrong. If you have some numbers for me, I'd appreciate seeing them. :)
You *are* right about them not just being in seminary. Obviously they were in parishes. How else would they have gotten access to the children and teens?
By "in the seminary" I mean where these priests started out, not where they ended up and OF COURSE they were lurking in parishes & schools! Bishops & pastors tried to hide the problem by transferring these molesters around to different churches, to people who did not know the priests' history. WHY DID THEY NOT REPORT THEM TO THE POLICE FOR DECADES ??
"a few bad apples" - I'd say that dozens & dozens of priests, enough molesters to cause the near bankruptcies of a few dioceses across the US in paying millions & millions in retribution to the victims as well as court costs for the accused, well that's a LOT of deviant priests!
Guess what HalLeyLooya, 1/2% is 1/2% percent too many! IT SHOULD BE FLAT 0.00%!!!
And since when is it possible only 1/2% can bankrupt a rich archdiocese ??? That would be Portland, Spokane, Tucson & others.
BTW, is that 1/4--1/2% a 2007 figure, or 2001?
As a woman raised in the Catholic Church, who left it for various reasons, I was horribly ashamed & mortified by the actions & cover-ups of the Catholic Church in the US. And I'm not the only one.
Catholic priests raping & engaging in oral & anal sex & hand jobs with young boys is SICK SICK SICK. Please DON'T scoff that it never happened, nor that it only happened a rare couple times over 50 years...
Heh. You said "seminary."
The real story with the Catholic priest pedophile thing is that the organized higher-ups in the church first covered it up, then denied it, then fought against legal disclosure with everything they had for years, sometimes decades.
Yes, it was probably only a small percentage of priests. But the powers that be in the church are the ones that covered it up and actually made it possible by creating a system where they transferred pedophile priests to new parishes, knowing full well that they were pedophiles.
Yes, it was probably only a small percentage of priests. But the powers that be in the church are the ones that covered it up and actually made it possible by creating a system where they transferred pedophile priests to new parishes, knowing full well that they were pedophiles.
Whoomp, there it is!
@pleskowicz
It's not so much that I think the Catholic Church is some sort of inherently evil organization, it's an organization made up of God's imperfect human agents so there are going to be mistakes. Fine, I understand that. Still, I have to wonder what is God's plan for the children whose lives were ruined by being repeatedly raped by priests? What is God hoping to accomplish by allowing this type of evil to prosper within an organization headed by someone who is supposed to be his (infallible) representative on Earth? Can you help me get some understanding about this issue?
Also, at what point did "Love thy neighbor" become "GOD HATES FAGS"?
Damn. I so wanted to be Comment 69 in this thread.
monkey:
your point is ludicrous. God loves all of humanity because God is love, pure love.
hillrat:
The chair of Peter is not infallible...no one ever claims him to be, except when speaking authoritatively on church doctrine and doctrine alone.
LooLoo, hillman, and others:
In short, all of humanity suffers from some sort of distortion of the truth, as we all live in a fallen state of being. Human sexuality has been the one that seems to be most distorted. We all have an innate desire to be in union with God (whether or not we even know it), as we are made in his image and likeness. In the beginning (refer to the book of Genesis), Adam and Eve knew no sin, and was completely in union with God. but, after they sinned, they longed for that union they once had. Satan knows how much our sexuality is a reflection of God (as it was originally intended) and an authentic understanding of our sexuality can lead us to a deeper union with God. Knowing this, Satan has done everything possible to distort the beatuy and meaning of our sexuality, more ways than are even thinkable.
There is no denying that anybody, priest or not, who involve themselves in child molestation and the other great distortions of sexuality have a real distortion of the truth. They need help...most indeed. And my heart cries out for the afflicted innocent. Truly. There is no tolerance for that.
However, it doesn't mean the church doctrine is out of line--it's the very teaching the Christ gave us. ALL PEOPLE are not exempt from falling into sin.
gotta run, will write more.
Peace.
Awww! Plesko baby, you back!
Missed ya. Oh and using firefox helps to catch spelling errors. But, may not want to use firefox since it's from a company once run by a woman. And we all know how you Christians feel about women.
Kisses!
oh and firefox doesn't catch grammar errors! My bad. Hah!
@pleskowicz
Much respect to you for sticking around, how a person of your beliefs can try to engage with Monkeyrotica on this issue is a bit mind-boggling but worthy of kudos nonetheless.
What you have to understand that much of vitriol directed at God/the Church you see here in this forum is a direct result of people losing their faith and their disgust with how religion is so often egregiously misapplied. When Monkey said, "God hates fags" he was talking about the insane Bible-thumpers out there who live their lives thinking that is the literal truth.
Even you have to admit that the Catholic Church has, at best, seriously mishandled the issue of pedophile priests. Rather than facing the cold, hard truth they simply prayed that things would get better, but they never did. Imagine the rage and confusion that a young person who has been violated by a Priest feels. For those of us who know people who have been affected by this issue, all I can say is that God forgives but I can not.
Good thing church doctrine doesn't include dangerous ideas like the sun revolving around the earth or "stars" being holes in crystal spheres. Because then you'd be in trouble.
And Adam and Eve were TOTALLY living in sin because he never got a proper anullment from his first wife Lilith. Now, granted, back in the day, divorce was pretty expensive, but that's still no excuse for bigamy.
Come to think of it, that photo looks less like Emperor Palpatine and more like those "Devil on a Canvas" dailies that Barton Fink had to watch.
"I will DESTROY him!"
"Cut!"
"I WILL destroy HIM!"
"Cut! Cut!"
"I will DESTROY HIM!"
"Cut! Cut! Cut!"
monkey:
[And Adam and Eve were TOTALLY living in sin because he never got a proper anullment from his first wife Lilith. Now, granted, back in the day, divorce was pretty expensive, but that's still no excuse for bigamy.]
Sorry to inform you, but, Lilith is just a myth. I know there is mention of her in some ancient writings, but, those writings are definitively not inspired writings. There is plenty of research available to see for yourself. Sorry.
blittle:
Yes, unfortunately, many have misinterpreted Ephesians 5. (Husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church, wives be submissive to your husbands.) For those who have distorted this passage, please be mindful of the following: Wives are to be submissive (under the mission). The mission of christ? He died for us--that's how much he loves us, the church. Husbands, in essence, need to "die" to their wives, whom are essentially risen to a higher place of respect and dignity than was previously regarded.
Disco Stu:
[Well, that's not really an open discussion then, is it? IS it possible that one can still disagree and still not be in Hell.]
Objective Truth has nothing to do with anyone's personal feelings. There are some things that exist in this world that JUST ARE. As for an open discussion, if you read, I am not the one that is using such vulgarity to express myself as many people seem to be using in this commentary. I am always open to hearing anybody speak, I just believe we can treat others with a dignity they deserve (as they are, too, made in God's image and likeness whether they know it or like it or not) and not resort to such ill-treatment of our language and each other.
Hillman:
You do know that there is no charge to view the artwork and historical artifacts that are on display in St. Peter's and other churches?
If you had those artifacts, would you sell them? If so, would you "save the world" with all the proceeds? If you come close, would have changed people's will and desire to do good?
Will write more later...gotta run home to the family.
Peace, +JMJ+
Sorry to inform you, but, Lilith is just a myth.
Aw, man! But it's such a good myth! And you better not be telling me that anything else in the Bible is a myth either, because that would really be an onion in the ointment.
Plesko:
Are you serious with that 'there's no charge to view Vatican artwork' line?
Really?
Funny.
How big would Christ's fabulous art library be, whilst kids all around the globe were starving to death and unnecessarily being born with AIDS?
If I had the Vatican's wealth, would I sell off the superflous stuff and actually help people?
Your darn straight I would. In a second.
You really didn't answer the question. Why doesn't the Catholic Church sell all these artworks and the properties they don't use and invest in actually helping the starving and afflicted?
And which would be more important to Christ: to make sure bankrupt old lesbian couples were denied health care or to actually care for the afflicted and destitute?
Are you going to answer?
Hillman:
[Are you serious with that 'there's no charge to view Vatican artwork' line?
Really?]
YES! Really...I've been there. And the artwork is simply unbelievably amazing.
[How big would Christ's fabulous art library be, whilst kids all around the globe were starving to death and unnecessarily being born with AIDS?]
I think you are confusing different issues at hand. The monetary value of artwork has little to do with people's self-control and willful intent to think they can do whatever they want, whenever they want to do it and not having any consequences. Yes, ultimately God is the one that creates new life, and why would he allow such things? I don't fully know the mind of God, nor can I even begin to think that I can. But, if the grave conditions of some have caused people like you and I to have more compassion for those less fortunate and even sell all of our own superfluous stuff to help the needy, then surely that's a plus.
[You really didn't answer the question. Why doesn't the Catholic Church sell all these artworks and the properties they don't use and invest in actually helping the starving and afflicted?]
Do you really believe money is the answer to saving the starving and afflicted?
[And which would be more important to Christ: to make sure bankrupt old lesbian couples were denied health care or to actually care for the afflicted and destitute?]
This is striking...I'm not sure how the Catholic Church would be blamed for two elderly people not receiving health care. Elaborate, please.
It is written in scripture, that the poor will always be with us. Throwing money at problems isn't always the most complete answer. Hearts and wills need to conform and commit to helping those in need. We are all called to "love as Christ loves." A tough call, indeed, but if we think it is impossible then we would be emptying the power of the cross, the one that Jesus hung on for three hours and died for our sins.("Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.")
He came to redeem us, not give us new laws or coping mechanisms. Redemption is true freedom...not freedom to break any law we want, but rather freedom to fulfill the law that God has given humanity.
Peace. +JMJ+ AGBTG
"Do you really believe money is the answer to saving the starving and afflicted?"
Uh, yes. When it takes money to provide HIV medicines and food.
As for the lesbian question, the Catholic Church has been front and center in denying gays basic civil union and marriage rights in the US. And such denials cause very real hardships to many gay couples. Contrary to right wing propaganda, many gays (especially lesbians) don't have much money.
When a gay couple reaches their 'golden years' they often have to rely on social security and other benefits provided by the government in order to provide the basics - healthy food, medicine, etc..
Even before then many gay couples must rely on health care benefits through their partner's employer. This is yet another benefit the Catholic Church has fought.
Your Catholic Church has fought against them receiving such benefits.
So how exactly do you justify it?
Would Christ be fighting such a fight?
Really, Plesko, you're going to have to do better than this...
"But, if the grave conditions of some have caused people like you and I to have more compassion for those less fortunate and even sell all of our own superfluous stuff to help the needy, then surely that's a plus."
So you and I should sell all our stuff and help the poor with the proceeds, but the Catholic Church, which has literally a billion times more superflous stuff, and which has as a BASIC tenet of faith 'above all, help the poor', doesn't have to?
Why not?
HILLMAN:
[Do you really believe money is the answer to saving the starving and afflicted?" Uh, yes. When it takes money to provide HIV medicines and food. ]
Yes, this is obvious, silly--however, the entire answer? You must be rational enough to agree that the hearts and wills of all of humanity need to conform and commit to helping those in need. Not just those who have a tenant of their faith.
[As for the lesbian question, the Catholic Church has been front and center in denying gays basic civil union and marriage rights in the US.]
Wow. You definitely do not understand the entire meaning of marriage. God ordered humanity for man and woman to compliment each other. Just because man messes things up doesn't mean the divine order of humanity needs to be changed. It is mankind than needs to change. Remember we are made in his image, not him in our image. Please don't get me wrong...I am very sensitive to people who have same-sex attraction. I truly am, some close relatives and friends of mine deal with this. Unfortunately, a disorder is disorder. Furthermore, we all struggle with some type of disorder, some more than others. Same-sex attraction is one of the many sexual disorders our world struggles with--along with rape, incest, masturbation, and many others. It does not make it normal, nor should all of America be forced into thinking or believing that it is normal. The climate of our culture is such that people have been so accustomed to using other people as objects that people think they can marry anything they "love". (i.e. I love my dog, and he loves me, therefore I should be able to marry my dog.) That's crazy.
[Your Catholic Church has fought against them receiving such benefits.]
The Catholic Church is for all of humanity...it is not mine to have...we are all members of the mystical body of Christ.
Why are you so anti-Catholic, anyway?
Oh, Plesko.
Don't compare my loving consensual 20 year relationship with my partner to rape or incest or marrying your dog.
That's insulting.
Oh, and you didn't actually answer either of the questions I asked.
Are you going to?
As for being anti-Catholic? No, not really. I despise the hypocrisy of other sects as well.
But I am anti 'self-absorbed elitist narrow-minded sanctimonious prick', which is pretty much what you just showed yourself to be, what with comparing my relationship to marrying your dog.
Plesko:
You think homosexuality is a disorder.
Let's assume for an idiotic moment that it is.
Does that justify making life difficult for gay couples, making them live in poverty and being denied decent health care and comfort in their golden years?
Is that how you 'cure' them, by harassing them into an early grave?
And is that what Christ would do? You know, what with His message of compassion and decency toward all?
Hillman:
Please forgive me for writing anything that caused you to have anger towards me, or for that matter, the church. It causes me great pain to know I inflicted such pain upon you with my words. You are right, this is not what Christ would have done. And this is certainly not what he gave the church; that's my mistake not His.
A million pardons is what I ask for.
Seeing that have as open of a mind as you write that you do, I will encourage you to visit www.giftfoundation.org and get the CD set for the Theology of the Body.
May many blessings be upon you during this most Holy of weeks. Jesus is the answer to everything. He is the Truth, the Light, and the Way.
Peace.
Sorry, Plesko.
People don't compare gay marriage to incest, bestiality, or rape by accident.
I find your apology a bit hard to believe.
And I can't help but notice you still didn't answer either question.
But, then, that's sortof par for the course for your ilk.
That is why people have such a dim view of Christianity these days.
Yow! This thread has some legs! Pretty soon, it'll be walking upright and using primitive tools.
Hillman - You should know that we're dealing with a tripartate deity here. So, unlike your schizo godheads, there are at least three possible answers to your question. Even if Jeebus did say, "Love they neighbor," you have two other guys who have veto power. So, his dad could say, "Yeah, but you can also smite your neighbor if it's in my name." As for the Holy Ghost, I never really saw it as a bird. More as a Casper the Friendly Ghost-type which, as we learned from The Simpsons, is really the ghost of Richie Rich.
I recall seeing a cartoon once of Jeebus talking with James the Lesser and sadly intoning, "Gay, straight, bi... too bad there aren't any good choices."
why do i feel like 'plesko' is really just a well-developed troll pulling everyone's strings here like a puppet-master? kind of like the 'crazy old lady' troll we had back in the threads about shiloh baptist church...
just when you think a topic is dead, it comes back seven days later.
*rim shot*
Be that as it may. I offer to you what little I can offer.
Pray for me as I'll pray for you.
Jeebus came back after 3 days, not 7.
I'm so ashamed that I know this. Father, forgive me for I know not what I do.
Plesko is always in my prayers. Have no fear of His Suffocating Tentacles. You can be sure that the dreaded Cthulu will pass over you and yours during the time of "the Harvest."
Ahhhhh, yes.... "the Harvest."
it's announcements like this that make me glad i'm a Jew.
hooray for the heathens!
People don't compare gay marriage to incest, bestiality, or rape by accident
Dont forget that 'our agenda' is a bigger threat to the US than the terrorist agenda.
"Be that as it may. I offer to you what little I can offer.
Pray for me as I'll pray for you."
What a monstrous load of stupidity, in lieu of an actual answer.
But, hey, what did I expect. The Catholic Church having tens of billions in unused assets but not using them to actually follow Biblical commandments is pretty much indefensible.
I just wish someone had the balls to confront the Pope on this in one of his PR 'kiss the ring' stage moments.
At least I offered my apology. That's the best I can do.
I have yet to hear any apology from any of you for insulting my faith. Rather, all I have read are insults upon insults, and all quite juvenile ones to say the least.
My goodness, at least I apologized.
Hillman: as for your question about church's assets? You will need to get in touch with the local bishop in DC or contact the vatican yourself. I cannot speak for church officials as I am not a church official.
Although, in my own logic (or illogic, however you wish to view it) I still cannot see how selling the artworks to a private entity, where people would need to pay to see them, would really solve things. It may help some of the people for some of the time, but, eventually wouldn't there be people later down the road who would be in great need? What's left, then? Hearts and wills of all mankind need to change to help others. There are more people in this world that are extremely wealthy that collectively have 100 times more wealth value than the artwork by Michaelangelo and others. Why haven't they rushed to "save the world?" Why? Because their hearts and wills are not fully committed to helping those in great need. Many offer programs that simply continue their current problems, such as birth-control and condoms--which by the way, do not stop the spread of the 120+ std's that exist. Well...anyway... hearts and wills need to change and commit to helping others in need.
Hillman: I am sorry you are experiencing difficulty with health care and for others that are dear to you, too. I hope things will open up for you.
Christ is risen.
Indeed, He is Risen! Alleluia!! Alleluia!!!
Happy Easter to all.