DCist: Transit on Thursday: The Future of Metro Edition

washwords

Mon, 05 May 2008 23:43:50 -0500

@ibc: classic. yes, we must keep out the riff-raff. likewise i don't want those metro people on my bus lines. I like the X2 just the way it is. free of people afraid of such buses. as for the map itself...I like it. why the 2030 date - i'd prefer it be ready by say 2000-now. ;)

TripleE

Mon, 05 May 2008 16:46:37 -0500

Awesome. . . except I really would love to see the Red Line have a nice connection to the Silver and/or VA side of the Orange lines. Bethesda to Rosslyn or East Falls Church? As a Marylander on that side of the Red Line, most of my bitching about NoVA really does come from the complete pain in the ass it is for me to get to pretty much anything along the Orange Line, Tysons, etc. It either involves a car (which then involves driving in Arlington, which is never good) or going to city center and then right the hell back out. Also, as a weirdo who lives just outside the District and works in Gaithersburg, I'd love to see the Red Line extend up to where the bus transit center in Germantown is, so I could feasibly metro to work, but I recognize that option is one that would simply bring more people driving in from West Virginny, Frederick, and Hagerstown. Seriously, though, unless gas goes about like 8 bucks a gallon, my driving a Civic for half an hour to work and back against traffic is going to outweigh the cost of metro and bus fare, plus the time involved, especially considering the shitty service of RideOn buses. . . Speaking of which. . . does this all have to be rail transit? I'm all for better suburban bus service, streetcars, etc. ~EEE~

miss bee

Fri, 02 May 2008 11:44:37 -0500

sordid, you slay me. nice pick up, good game!

monkeyrotica

Fri, 02 May 2008 09:42:26 -0500

Who waits around for an hour for a bus? You're better off hitchhiking with an axe, a hockey mask, and a sign that say "ANYWHERE." Works for me. I got into the second ring of the Pentagon before security told me to get back with my tour group.

RJ

Fri, 02 May 2008 09:31:52 -0500

If you are in Alexandria or Arlington and can not find a bus that can take you to a Metro station within the hour, you are just not trying.

evan

Thu, 01 May 2008 18:43:45 -0500

Drew is absolutely right about the lack of decent transit to a large swath of arlington and fairfax counties, although expanding metro probably isn't the right answer. With the present transit system, it's really hard to DC by public transit from places like Columbia Pike, Annandale, parts of Springfield, and Burke (where I grew up). VRE does serve some of these areas, but it's too unreliable and slow to attract a significant percentage of commuters. The best solution would be a light rail system from Annandale to the Pentagon and expanded VRE service for places like Burke and Manassas. Also, loganmo's point about suburbanites not deserving transit is idiotic (I hope he was kidding). To say nothing of the environmental benefits of increased transit ridership, life for DC residents would improve if fewer Virginians were forced to drive (and park) their cars in DC.

van_ness

Thu, 01 May 2008 17:40:05 -0500

bought homes further out to save money and have their 300 square feet walk-in closets can no longer afford to drive their 25 mile each way commute because gas costs $10/gallon, they better not come crying to me. Suburban life is *not* sustainable in the long-run. Wow, that post is just full of overgeneralizations. For one thing, I live in DC... and have a 20 mile commute, out to Fairfax County. More rail out to Fairfax benefits more than just the Fairfax dweller (granted my office's area is already covered with the silver line, but I think the more you build transit out there, the more it just takes cars off the road generally which benefits everyone). Also, do you honestly think that everyone living in Fairfax did it to have a big home with 300 square foot walk-in closets? Certainly many do, and I don't think anyone is suggesting metro to Great Falls or Clifton. But, take a look around and you'll find many Fairfax residents living in apartments, whether they are low-income immigrants, singles/couples who work in the area, etc. I don't understand why they wouldn't use (let alone deserve) a theoretical, dotted-line transit extension too? Finally, I would remark that I don't think things would be very sustainable if everyone lived & worked in DC. If our cost of living is high now, imagine what it would be then... and Rock Creek Park would of course have to be turned into office buildings (or condos). I think, to the extent this area's rapid development is sustainable at all (which is probably debatable), it's a combination of all 3 jurisdictions, just with better transit, smarter growth policy, and yes, better road coverage in some spots.

IMGoph

Thu, 01 May 2008 17:07:29 -0500

sordid: hey, wasn't that on "overheard in DC" at some point? :)

monkeyrotica

Thu, 01 May 2008 17:04:07 -0500

Suburban life is *not* sustainable in the long-run. Define "long-run." On a long enough timeline, everybody's life expectancy drops to zero.

DGrad

Thu, 01 May 2008 17:03:12 -0500

where are the additions east of the Anacostia River? I would like to see a connection from Crystal City to this section of DC, as well as another Anacostia River crossing.

sordid

Thu, 01 May 2008 16:45:38 -0500

Wouldn't it make more sense if the blue line stayed along it's current path and then the silver line went from Rosslyn to G'Town? And what is up with that darling light Blue line...where does that go? ;)

Reid

Thu, 01 May 2008 16:33:39 -0500

Mike B., I've always fantasized about commuting by horse and buggy. I suppose there are some farms out in western Fairfax, but when I think of "horse country" I think of Route 50 out to Middleburg. That's horse country.

loganmo

Thu, 01 May 2008 16:20:05 -0500

anonymous_troll, call me a prick if you want, but when the people who bought homes further out to save money and have their 300 square feet walk-in closets can no longer afford to drive their 25 mile each way commute because gas costs $10/gallon, they better not come crying to me. Suburban life is *not* sustainable in the long-run.

stmove

Thu, 01 May 2008 16:15:35 -0500

Glad this is over with- now they can start that regular shuttle service to the moon from union station. Or the through the center of the earth line to china for cheap clay pot chicken. I have tons of faith in metro.

MikeB

Thu, 01 May 2008 16:03:49 -0500

Reid, I really don't know how much "horse country" is out there in Fairfax. I just recall seeing a few horses on my way to a party near the NRA headquarters a while ago. Maybe the solution is to create horse trails direct from Fairfax to downtown DC?

Reid

Thu, 01 May 2008 15:56:33 -0500

I'm getting really confused about what part of Fairfax you are talking about. The densest parts of Columbia Pike are in Arlington. Braddock Road is entirely in Alexandria. I don't think Fairfax even has any "horse country" (although I guess it was Mike B who brought up the horsey set) and if it does, it's nowhere near Arlington Cemetery, Columbia Pike, or Braddock Road. I think the Columbia Streetcar will address some of the area I think you're talking about. And as for VRE, I don't argue with you that service needs to be improved, but I don't think laying down a whole new Metro line is the answer. The answer is to make VRE operate like a true regional rail, on par with SEPTA, NJT, or Metro North.

monkeyrotica

Thu, 01 May 2008 15:55:15 -0500

This doesn't seem to consider all the crap that NCPC has planned for DC over the next couple decades. They're supposed to move the Supreme Court to South Capitol Street near the water, and you're supposed to get major waterfront development from the Sousa Bridge all the way to Georgetown. But I guess those folks can live with streetcar access, or maybe some gondolas. And vinyl siding is so tacky. I'm proud to have my suburban "crap shack" wrapped up snug tight in black PVC, surgical rubber, and duct tape. And that goes double for the parrot. Just try getting the DC housing code people to agree to let you slather your Logan Circle rowhouse in proper fetish attire. Do you know how difficult it is to find a rubber gas mask that will fit a parrot? Only three people in the world make them, and they all live in a tiny hamlet outside Hamburg. I don't want to live in a town that would keep me from the vicarious thrill of imminent suffocation.

inloganO

Thu, 01 May 2008 15:47:05 -0500

Virginia, there is frequent bus service for commuters along the Dulles Toll Road from West Falls Church. I take it every day to work. The 427 and 425 express to Tysons each leave every 15 minutes during rush hours and 20-24 minutes during the day. Also the 980 express runs every 6 minutes during rush hours from WFC to the Herndon-Monroe parking garage which carries tons of commuters. There are quite a few others routes too. However, you're not going to get the tens of thousands that trains can provide though because people just won't take buses as much as rail.

anonymous troll

Thu, 01 May 2008 15:42:40 -0500

If the suburbanites want transit, they shouldn't live in the damb suburbs. That's the same argument that anti-transit NIMBYs in the damb suburbs use to sink transportation initiatives. How ironic. Maybe the anti-suburbs pricks and the anti-city pricks can get together and sink the vast majority of Americans living in the middle.

loganmo

Thu, 01 May 2008 15:31:24 -0500

"I mean in Fairfax County. There are no Metro plans south of the Orange Line and West of the Blue Line. Yet, that is a large chunk of real estate. You can't tell me that there is nothing there." Get over your oversized overpriced ugly as vinyl-sided and brick faced crap shacks, move to the city, and stop complaining already! If the suburbanites want transit, they shouldn't live in the damb suburbs.

drew in adams morgan

Thu, 01 May 2008 15:30:28 -0500

"I won't tell you there's nothing there. In fact, I won't not tell you that VRE goes right through that part of Fairfax." Avoiding the high rises on Columbia Pike and Braddock Road, and only running on Monday through Friday, last train departing Union Station at 8:03 PM. The map is a wish-list of what Metro wants to do to ease the transportation infrastructure in the DC region. Yet, large parts of the most populous county in the DC Metropolitan Region is void of Metro access. It's no wonder why 66 and 395 are parking lots during rush hour.

ricky d

Thu, 01 May 2008 15:26:43 -0500

Northern Virginia is still going to exist in 22 years? That can't be right. *checks figures again*

Virginia

Thu, 01 May 2008 15:23:56 -0500

I support the Silver Line, but I don't understand why, in the meatime, we don't start by providing frequent, reliable bus service upon its proposed route. The current service from West Falls Church up to Tysons and beyond is pathetic - very infrequent and unreliable service and large swaths of the day and evening with no service. Start running busses every 10-15 minutes all day and up to midnight, and then you might start getting people into the habit of using public transport to Tysons.

MikeB

Thu, 01 May 2008 15:10:49 -0500

RJ, sorry if I wasn't clear. I was asking mainly about the parts of Fairfax drew was referring to, south of the OrangeandSilver lines. I don't doubt areas around Tyson's, etc can support a new line.

boondoggle

Thu, 01 May 2008 14:56:59 -0500

This map looks official enough to sell property at inflated prices on the nearly finished silver and purple lines to unsuspecting rubes. So. Many. Rubes.

RJ

Thu, 01 May 2008 14:37:12 -0500

Fairfax even dense enough (or would it become dense enough) to justify Metro service? The Silver Line is about as dense if not more than the Redline is around Rockville, Bethesda ect. I have a feeling most of these stations west of Tysons are going to support large amount of parking too. Plus there is a significant reverse commute to Tysons and the Dulles Corridor.

MikeB

Thu, 01 May 2008 14:19:25 -0500

Like Fairfax wants to go through another version of the Tyson's/Dulles nightmare right now. Is development in that part of Fairfax even dense enough (or would it become dense enough) to justify Metro service? Does the McMansion and horse stable crowd really want rail? Where's Ollie North on this?

Reid

Thu, 01 May 2008 14:16:12 -0500

I mean in Fairfax County. There are no Metro plans south of the Orange Line and West of the Blue Line. Yet, that is a large chunk of real estate. You can't tell me that there is nothing there. I won't tell you there's nothing there. In fact, I won't not tell you that VRE goes right through that part of Fairfax.

drew in adams morgan

Thu, 01 May 2008 13:55:26 -0500

"Because there is nothing there but cemetery." I mean in Fairfax County. There are no Metro plans south of the Orange Line and West of the Blue Line. Yet, that is a large chunk of real estate. You can't tell me that there is nothing there.

Bethesdaist

Thu, 01 May 2008 13:49:35 -0500

We could print some tshirts that say "I ride the Black Line", rrrawwwr

miss bee

Thu, 01 May 2008 13:42:10 -0500

monkey, you know EVVVVERYTHING

monkeyrotica

Thu, 01 May 2008 13:21:49 -0500

What Metro needs is a Black Line to the White wimmen, because I'm tired of having to drive to Fur, knowhatimsayin?

anonymous troll

Thu, 01 May 2008 13:18:15 -0500

I am always curious as to why Metro has no plans to do anything south of Arlington National Cemetary. You mean South Arlington? There's the Columbia Pike streetcar, although since NVRTA's taxation authority got struck down, Bailey's Crossroads might have to make do with rickshaws and happy thoughts.

monkeyrotica

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:56:25 -0500

DC used to have a streetcar line that connected DC with Annapolis. Went to Baltimore, too. Highways made it obsolete.

monkeyrotica

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:52:56 -0500

Arlington Village and South Glebe Road are certainly dull, but I'd hardly call them a cemetery.

miss bee

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:49:35 -0500

orange line to annapolis, please!

RJ

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:41:01 -0500

"I am always curious as to why Metro has no plans to do anything south of Arlington National Cemetery." Because there is nothing there but cemetery. Metro station map is misleading. Arlington Cemetery and Pentagon are much closer (1 mile) than they appear on the map.

MikeB

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:31:00 -0500

Well, that NY Times blog isn't the one that called Metro's map "Playskool." That was a couple of months ago, but still amusing. I like the old 70s map for NYC. If only because I'm sure it will upset the reporter who called us Playskool." Ah, the 70s. Longfellow is Conn. Ave and M? That would be a great mix of passengers -- businessmen going to Camelot, the ESL crowd and interns going to Lucky Bar.

Krisa

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:28:46 -0500

That silver line trip is gonna be one long ass ride. I really hope they figure out how to do express trains to Dulles, otherwise I'm sure that it will become less viable as a rail option to the airport so much as just a commuter line. I like having blue swing up a bit farther into the DC residential areas, but I wouuld probably swing it up just a tad farther than it is. If it's going to be that close to farragut north, then just make that a transfer station proper. And I don['t mind hitting Thomas circle, but I'd make the stop closer to logan circle proper before swinging back down to hit Mt Vernon. But I do like how this is more focused on capacity downtown (except silver and purple obviously) rather than just extending the current lines farther out. I always thought the BWI line was dumb anyway. We've already got MARC and Amtrak for that haul. There's no such option currently to Dulles.

OldPosterKnownAsCranky

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:26:03 -0500

I like Metro map porn. Is there even a ballpark figure on how much this would all cost? I'm guessing somewhere in the range of $1.2 to $3.7 gazillion Euros.

fafou

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:22:18 -0500

And just as we are arguing over how our map might look in 20 years, the NY Times is calling the DC map "Playskool". I have to admit I almost couldn't believe the timing.

robot_agenda

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:20:06 -0500

totally like this mockup, would help me out where i live currently in fairfax. the only question is when would this whole thing be operational once approved?

Reid

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:17:41 -0500

I believe this is the source of the Longfellow moniker. In other maps I've seen it called merely "Connecticut Ave." I'd probably call it "Farragut Norther". The plan for the new line would be straight down M St. So the stop at Thomas Circle would be right at or around the circle. The subway vs. streetcar issue is interesting. The thing is, the subway plan is primarily about serving Virginia. Yes DC residents get a better crosstown route, but that would be more cheaply done with streetcars (particularly those with ROW). Streetcars, however, wouldn't do much to solve the Orange Line congestion problems, particularly after the Silver Line opens. And that's probably the biggest problem this whole region faces. So if they do go ahead with the subway, perhaps some proposed streetcar lines would become less needed (e.g. the Georgetown to Union Station route). If so then perhaps we could prioritize other cooridors that wouldn't be helped by the subway (e.g. Georgia Ave., Wisconsin Ave., the upper cross-town route along U St.). This doesn't have to be a zero-sum game. We should still insist on streetcars where the benefit (particularly to the DC residents who would be paying for it) outweighs the potential redundancy, but where it doesn't we should apply those resources elsewhere.

drew in adams morgan

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:17:37 -0500

SY: that I think is still on the table. It made a lot of noise last year when the Dulles Extension was revived. I am always curious as to why Metro has no plans to do anything south of Arlington National Cemetary. From looking at the map, it seems like a large area of the region is being ignored. I would also advocate having the new blue line bend north from West End and travel under Florida Avenue/U Street/Florida Avenue and then down to New Jersey Avenue. It's pretty hard to get across town from there and it is a pretty far walk from anywhere in Adams Morgan to the Woodley Park-Zoo Metro. (Door to door for me is just under a mile).

monkeyrotica

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:14:57 -0500

A Green Line extention to BWI would provide a valuable service to public safety. You could Metro to BWI, transfer to the light rail line to Baltimore, get wasted on .75 cent PBRs, and ride home without once getting behind the wheel and driving drunk. Although, I imagine they'd need to install a few more Port-o-lets at Greenbelt Station.

fartynonsense

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:12:49 -0500

Given the amount of traffic that Dupont and Farragut see, I'm guessing that building in redundancy in the area probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

MikeB

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:10:51 -0500

Also, why no connections between Springfield/Vienna/Dulles? Because it wasn't in the Metro presentation? Seriously though, have Virginia officials even amde such a request. All the stuff in the presentation and on the map are things I've reach about for several years and have been pushed by officials from those areas that would be served.

flapjack

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:10:43 -0500

I feel like a Green Line to BWI would cause so much trouble. Imagine a train getting delayed way the hell out in no man's land, that would eff everything up all the way back into the city. Having Greenbelt as an end to DC city service and starting a separate train line to BWI from the same place would make much more sense. Of course people would get confused and accidently get on the wrong train out of town, but that's their problem. They're already confused by the platform having two sides even though both only head downtown.

HCE

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:06:17 -0500

If Longfellow is indeed the "Golden Triangle" area, would another station really be necessary there? It is already well served by Dupont and the Farragut stations.

MrTinDC

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:05:29 -0500

Yes, SY, on Richard Laymen's site he posted a pic of a metro fantasy map that included the Green Line going out to BWI.

SY

Thu, 01 May 2008 12:00:19 -0500

This is really great, and any of these would be better than none. Wasn't Metro talking about a line out to BWI at some point too?

monkeyrotica

Thu, 01 May 2008 11:59:38 -0500

Still no love for Swampoodle. Least they could do is get a decent light rail station. And give the express train a snappy name, like "The Mudshark."

idontwantadcistid

Thu, 01 May 2008 11:59:37 -0500

I went to Alpert's site and asked him where the "Longfellow" stop would be, and he said it would be at the intersection of Connecticut and M Streets (where there is a statue of Longfellow in the little triangle park next to 18th Street... he chose that name because of the statue). He also mentioned (and I agree) that it would be good to have a pedestrian tunnel between Longfellow and Farragut North (and another between Farragut North and Farragut West, for that matter), allowing for a new transfer point between lines. However, the pedestrian tunnel is not yet in Metro's proposal.

Aaron Morrissey

Thu, 01 May 2008 11:59:05 -0500

HCE/LoganMo: Most ideas that I've read place Longfellow near Connecticut and M where the Longfellow Memorial statue is. Digging a tunnel would be difficult there, so there is some ideas about putting it in a location that would be easier served with an underground walkway linkup from another station (perhaps a link between the two Farraguts.) As far as Thomas Circle goes, that one is easier. I'm assuming that it would be a lot like Dupont's station, running directly underneath the circle.

IMGoph

Thu, 01 May 2008 11:55:35 -0500

longfellow is the name that michael grass came up with to try to name the no-man's-land between dupont and farragut park, because of the statue of h.w. longfellow there.

loganmo

Thu, 01 May 2008 11:45:04 -0500

Monkey, I think you mean "Here there be DRAGONS" Where exactly is this Thomas Circle station going to be? And I agree, WTF is Longfellow? Maybe the Thomas Circle stop should be a couple blocks north and be named "Crew Club."

monkeyrotica

Thu, 01 May 2008 11:42:20 -0500

This doesn't seem to do anything to get people off the parking lots that are 270 and 395 at rush hour. You got thousing driving in from Frederick trying to get to Tysons, and thousands more coming up from Prince William. Or maybe that's just the point: improve core transit and maybe the boonies crowd will move further in? Any way, the time for a second Potomac crossing between VA and Montgomery County was about 15 years ago. That s**t is way overdue, thank you very much, Mr. and Mrs. Nimby. An express line from Rockville to Tysons would go a long way towards thinning out that Legion Bridge crowd. Are there really that many people who need to get from New Carrolton to Bethesda and versa visa?

wonderwazz

Thu, 01 May 2008 11:41:58 -0500

the River Terrace station looks badass

ibc

Thu, 01 May 2008 11:40:43 -0500

I don't know, but all this talk about putting a Metro stop in Trinidad/H St makes me nervous. Won't this just bring in undesirables from places like Fairfax and Alexandria?

Politburo

Thu, 01 May 2008 11:38:48 -0500

Did we "DCist" the ggw website? Not responding for me..

somegirl

Thu, 01 May 2008 11:31:06 -0500

I'm going to start telling people I live right next to the Long Branch stop on the Purple Line. Perhaps treating it as an accomplished fact will boost acceptance.

HCE

Thu, 01 May 2008 11:27:53 -0500

Where the hell is Longfellow?

mreford

Thu, 01 May 2008 11:26:57 -0500

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

monkeyrotica

Thu, 01 May 2008 11:21:50 -0500

Pricetag, please? Also, why no connections between Springfield/Vienna/Dulles? I guess because nobody lives there, right? The very least you could do is put a "Here There Bee Monsters" drawing in its place. Maybe something with a three-headed immigrant with its tentacles wrapped around a fire-breathing fiscal conservative?