DCist: DDOT to Release Pedestrian Safety Strategy

DL in DC

Wed, 21 May 2008 15:33:03 -0500

[Picking up an old one since I walked through Dupont Circle yesterday.] cminus: It is definitely legal, and posted as such, to turn right from the outer ring of Dupont Circle onto Massachusetts Ave heading north-west on Mass Ave. Just after the feeder from Connecticut Ave onto the outer ring on the north side, there is a sign that shows the inner lane of the outer ring can only go straight (i.e. continue around the circle), while the outer lane of the outer ring may either go straight (around the circle) or turn right (on to Mass Ave.). I didn't check, but I'm sure the other side is the same way.

theJust

Tue, 20 May 2008 12:47:29 -0500

The first poster is 100% wrong. Pedestrians should not always have the right of way. The problem with pedestrian safety in this city is jaywalking. I see it everyday. I like to call them the "would be stunt men". They cross in the middle of the block 50 feet from the crosswalk while traffic is whizzing by in either direction. Precariously perched in the middle of the street making that, "I know you're going to stop and let me walk in front of you face". It's ridiculous. Or the people that actually are at the crosswalks but don't wait for the light. They take a step forward. "OH NO CAR!", they jump back. Then they make it to the middle and get stuck. It's retarded. Or the other retards who simply don't look because they are...? Idiots? The key to pedestrian safety is the same old boring stuff we've all known all along. Cross at crosswalks with the crossing light. Look both ways and cross defensively. In the end it doesn't matter who had the right of way. The pedestrian is the one that is going to feel the pain so watch your ass. As a final note some of you seem to misunderstand the rule of crosswalks. If it is a crosswalk without a stoplight pedestrians always have the right of way. There are a couple of those on 14th street. If someone is in that crosswalk drivers are supposed to stop to let them cross. If it is a crosswalk at an intersection with a stoplight then pedestrians must obey the lights. There was a pedestrian fatality a few months ago and the driver of the car got off without a fine or any penalty because the pedestrian was crossing against the light at night.

lou

Tue, 20 May 2008 10:54:17 -0500

Other nominees: I at 15th NW. The cars turning west onto I from northbound 15th will run you over as you try to cross. The light lasts literally 6 seconds for pedestrians before it turns flashing red, so you're in the middle of the crosswalk as it's turning flashing red and drivers automatically assume the flashing red pedestrian means they can go. never mind that only a sprinter would make it across the street that fast. Connecticut at T NW(the Washington Hilton). You literally cannot cross Connecticut from the west side to the east side without stopping in the median if you were to obey the pedestrian signs. so if you're a pedestrian, your options are either standing in the median while cars fly by you at 60 mph on either side, or continuing to walk all the way across Conn. and hoping you're not elderly or have a sprained ankle and can't walk very very very fast. The crossing at any one-way street where there are morons waiting to turn left. They never look for pedestrians.

dcluci

Tue, 20 May 2008 00:07:43 -0500

i know the drivers around here are idiots, and super-agressive, but at the same time, one of my pet peeves is pedestrians crossing after the light starts flashing. at pedestrian-busy intersections, when that red hand starts flashing, that's the only possible time for cars to turn. pedestrians are supposed to stop entering the crosswalk after the red hand starts flashing. and NO pedestrians follow this rule. it's super frustrating. also, most of the crosswalks without lights on 17th in dupont are nightmares. i regularly almost get run over crossing 17th at church. when the light at q turns green, cars gun it and actually honk at me, when i'm in the middle of crossing up there. so, fun times.

DL in DC

Mon, 19 May 2008 18:22:24 -0500

cminus, I'm going to have to look next time that I'm around Dupont Circle. I do not believe that it is illegal to turn right from the outer ring on to Massachusetts. I'm 99% sure that it is legal on the east side, and 98% sure it is legal on the west side. How else are drivers coming from P St, 19th, New Hampshire, or Connecticut supposed to get to Mass Ave? There may be no right turn on red, but on green, I don't think that is the case. On the other hand, there are two other regular problems with Dupont Circle: 1) the idjiots that turn left at the end of the inner loop (either side of the circle) to continue around the circle or get to P street. 2) the idjiot that walk across the inner loop against the walk sign. a) they are nearly impossible to see even when driving below posted speed limits as they are around they blend with the background/trees b) the beauty of the inner loop is that it is timed to get people through on Mass Ave without making the whole area more of a cluster-f***. Having to stop for pedestrians walking against the light defeats that.

petitq

Mon, 19 May 2008 16:54:42 -0500

personally, i think there are dozens of streets that should be turned into pedestrian only promenades...

realidealist

Mon, 19 May 2008 16:29:34 -0500

17th and F NW. I would regularly dodge a car every morning. No traffic light there, not even a stop sign, that I remember. The drivers coming from the side streets turning onto 17th were such assholes-- always creeping into the crosswalk at red lights, ignoring the pedestrians right of way while giving us pedestrians dirty looks. One night I was doing human frogger in the AdamsMorgan Saturday night gridlock, and this woman in a suv drives by me (ok, creeps at about 0.0002 mph), the side mirror hits my arm, she looks me straight in the eye and says, incredulously, "did you just hit my car?" I replied, "uh, no, you DROVE your car into my arm." SInce this is already long-winded... I was never so scared crossing the street as I was in Rome in that giant circle near St. Peter's (can't remember the name.) No crosswalks, no traffic lights, and pedestrians sure as hell don't have the right of way. I almost got hit by a bus that day. So coming back to the US I had a new-found appreciation for our pedestrian right of way law. What a great land this is...I still haul ass across crosswalks, though.

regentrifydcnow

Mon, 19 May 2008 15:23:46 -0500

Yeh, it's true that DC has some of the dumbest jackass pedestrians-wif-attitude on earth - but it DOESN'T MATTER. Cars MUST STOP for pedestrians in crosswalks. Police don't enforce it and that's probably why drivers don't obey the law. Re: our dumbass pedestrians - it's a problem that is slowly improving as more of the majority of stupid pedestrians-wif-attitude move to PG county or are killed in neighborhood gang fights. Re: bad intersections: it is almost impossible to cross ConnAve, NW at R ST, NW --- the walk light to cross about 8 lanes of traffic is set at something like 15 seconds and there's no way in hell any elderly person can make it across. The neighborhood has it's fair share of elderly - and people with infants in strollers - and the walk light is just too damn short.

dodgecitydave

Mon, 19 May 2008 15:20:09 -0500

cminus

Mon, 19 May 2008 15:14:49 -0500

My least favorite intersections are 12th and Independence SW, and the northern junction of Dupont Circle and Massachusetts Avenue NW. Drivers making a left turn onto Independence from 12th not only routinely fail to yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk, but, upon seeing a pedestrian in the middle of the street, will accelerate and change lanes in the hopes of getting to the right-hand lane before the pedestrian reaches it. This is not only illegal, it's potentially calamitous -- since left turns are also permitted from the center lane of 12th, you sometimes get two vehicles trying to turn into the same lane... As for Dupont Circle and Massachusetts, it's illegal to make a right turn onto Massachusetts from the outer lanes of Dupont Circle; vehicles wanting to make a right on Massachusetts are supposed to take the inner lanes of the circle, which turn right, cross the outer lanes at a light, and then become Massachusetts. Having driven this route, I can attest that it works fine. But when cars regularly make the illegal right turn onto Massachusetts from the outer lanes, which they do, the result is an intersection on a major pedestrian route where traffic never stops or even slows.

Captain Easychord

Mon, 19 May 2008 14:30:08 -0500

I've actually nearly gotten hit a few times by cars running lights in dupont circle... so while there's some appeal to the idea of developing this type of intersection without lights, it seems that motorists are also ignoring the pedestrians...

OldPosterKnownAsCranky

Mon, 19 May 2008 14:07:47 -0500

Heh heh. He said "hancock."

IMGoph

Mon, 19 May 2008 13:40:12 -0500

amen a million times sommer, on that florida/r intersection. it's a mess. it's dangerous to walk across, drive across, bike across, you name it. the lights are timed just so that you can't find a clean way to get across there if you're on r street. you just have to pray that people on florida are going to actually stop and let you across. as far as 11th/o goes, i seem to remember reading that that's going to get a traffic light with the reconstruction of 11th street this year. hopefully! 15th/n - that's why i'd like to see 15th go back to being a two-way street. fuck the marylanders and their racetrack. it's our city, and we ought to be able to walk on our own streets without fear of getting run down. 16th/new hampshire/u - i think that one's going to get redone with the u street streetscaping project, which will probably be indefinitely postponed. fun fact, though, there was once a plan for a circle at that intersection. i have seen a nice vintage map from the late 1800s that shows a hancock circle there. damn shame that never came to fruition

DC Guy

Mon, 19 May 2008 13:38:32 -0500

The DC Master Ped Plans has extensive make-overs for several DC arteries, including Wisconsin Avenue. I really like that DDOT is taking a progressive stance towards pedestrian safety. There are best practices from a whole world of transportation experts, why not deploy them here? My favorate is the signal in Chevy Chase that brings traffic to a halt. It replaced the "stop flags" at a busy pedestrian intersection on Connecticut Avenue. Yet on weekends, it seems to be very widely used, but when not active, just flashes yellow so as to not impede Connecticut Ave traffic.

fartynonsense

Mon, 19 May 2008 13:29:51 -0500

Compounding the problems MrT cites at the Woodley Park Metro is southbound traffic on Connecticut at the light at 24th. The pedestrian island in the middle of 24th creates a large traffic box and very often, due to congestion at the Calvert light, southbound cars get caught in the box once the light turns red. There is space for them (thanks to the pedestrian island) to wait out the pedestrians crossing Connecticut and the traffic from 24th, but the light is behind them at that point, so you very often see these cars scrambling to pull forward out of the box, generally without regard to the people crossing the street.

yonas

Mon, 19 May 2008 13:18:21 -0500

All I have to say is that we REALLY need a crosswalk at 16th & Mt Pleasant. That is a really scary place to cross.

GXManDC

Mon, 19 May 2008 13:15:08 -0500

Oh, I meant Wisconsin & Ingomar NW, Not Wisc Jenifer. There is a light at the Jenifer St intersection

GXManDC

Mon, 19 May 2008 13:12:00 -0500

Wisconsin Av & Jenifer St NW near south Friendship Hts Metro. There is no light so everyone just drives 50mph and honks a people in the crosswalk. Wisconsin Ave & Garrison St. by Rodman's. Again, no light. I've been honked at, drivers speed up, Metro busses don't stop. MPD does not stop. I think it is crazy for someone to jayalk or cross against the red signal in this town, and while no one deserves to me mowed down, those pedestrians that do break the law shoud be ticketed. Drivers that do not stop for a pedestrian in a crosswalk should be fined and a point on the license. They should make thefine $250. The current $50 is stupid, no wonder no ne cares.

zinsation

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:58:38 -0500

N St crossing 15th. Once the light changes at Mass Ave, maniacal drivers from MD treat 15th as the Autobahn, happy to run over anyone trying to cross the road. I've had people curse me, speed up to try to hit me, change lanes to purposefully head toward me... I'd suggest speed bumps, but that would just succeed in launching some of these cars into the air where they would come crashing down on my head.

connie dobbs

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:51:34 -0500

I can't quote DC/VA/MD code here, but if a pedestrian is physically IN A CROSSWALK (you know, white lines & all that?), drivers should treat it like a traffic light that's just gone red! What bmpietz has observed in LA ought to be enforced in DC. Where are the fines? There was a Silver Spring initiative a while back in which the city was trying to empower pedestrians by leaving handheld stopsigns at crosswalks (that you could carry as you crossed) to give drivers extra warning that it's time to effing stop already!! I'd imagine that all those signs were stolen shortly after, but I applaud the creativity. Anyone know of follow-ups?

Miss Anthrope

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:45:29 -0500

New Jersey Ave NW crossing over New York Ave NW. There are crosswalks, but people just love to block that intersection and its crosswalks, so you're often forced into traffic. Plus, if you want to then cross over New Jersey, you have to wait about 5 seconds after you get the walk signal to safely walk as so many cars run that light. They need to either change the timing of the light or put a cop out there every day for a week or so and just pull people left and right. I've gotten hit on my bicycle at that intersection, so it holds a special place in my heart.

owgriswo

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:32:32 -0500

1. DC has the dumbest pedestrians in America. Crosswalk? I'll make my own, right here! Right in front of your car, which is moving. Ugh. In London if you are crossing in the middle of a road (not at a crosswalk), cars have every right to mow you down. 2. DC has some of the worst drivers on Earth. Aggressive like NYC, but not nearly as skilled at weaving or braking. More like Boston. And the cabbies, while knowledgeable enough about the news, and clever enough to make me hate meters already, are terrible, terrible drivers. 3. 18th/U/Florida/Vernon is a daily clusterf***. Make that hourly.

monkeyrotica

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:20:22 -0500

So WTF are we even talking about changing the light "timing" when we should be installing smart traffic lights? They speed your trip, they cut down on emissions, and they keep you from sitting at intersections for 10 minutes even though there's NO TRAFFIC CROSSING! That's why you get aggressive drivers/pedestrians: everybody's tired of wasting their time while a dumb light's timer clicks its way to obsolescence. Jeebus, this is the 21st Century, people! If they can't give me my jetpack and ass chaps, the least they can do is get a traffic computer to detect when nobody's crossing the intersection and flip the light. Barring that, put a cop with an AR-15 at the worst intersections. Anybody who blocks the box gets pulled out of the car Resevoir Dogs-style. And any pedestrian education strategy that doesn't involve marmots is doomed to failure.

SomeoneStoleMyScreenNameJason

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:20:04 -0500

It's just all part of the entitlement and arrogance that most people in DC seem to have. Just yesterday I was crossing the street in downtown Silver Spring - I was in the middle of the intersection, and all of a sudden this car makes a left turn almost into me, speeding up as he's approaching. He swerved out of the way at the last minute. Just the typical asshole behavior I always find in this city. Oh, and the next block, this guy in a Range Rover does basically the same thing - tries to make a left with pedestrians in the crosswalk, expecting we'll just get out of the way of His Holiness. I was already pissed about the previous incident, so I just let loose on his car, smacking my fist into the hood and screaming at him (the window was open). He looked shocked, like this was his first indication that the world didn't revolve around him. It felt good. Maybe he'll think twice about trying to mow down pedestrians again. I fucking hate the people in this city. Seriously - it's like Mexico. Third world ghetto shithole with more attitude than I've ever seen anywhere else. And I'm a NYer.

TimmyTucker

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:19:15 -0500

Also on the table for DoT pedestrian safety tactics: 1. Hiring an army of Boy Scouts to help citizens cross the street. (unless said pedestrian is homosexual, then he/she is on their own.) 2. All residents must wear electric dog collars. Electric fences will only deactivate when the Walk sign is green.

JenK

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:17:57 -0500

The intersection of 7th & Maryland & D Streets NE is terrifying. The angles created by the diagonal avenue make it difficult in any instance, but then you add in cars parked all the way to the corners (blocking views of traffic for pedestrians,) drivers who get stuck on D trying to get onto Maryland but get frustrated by the timing of the lights coming off of Staunton Square so they accelerate at any break in traffic regardless of anyone walking, the D6 bus line that roars through at any given time... Despite newly posted signs about DC Law requiring yielding to pedestrians in crosswalks, you almost always have to sprint across and say a prayer but end up flipping off the jerk who just about cuts you off at the kneecaps anyway.

Mike Licht

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:14:58 -0500

The Post article includes a map of dangerous intersections, absurdly missing from previous discussions of this topic. I'm sure someone out there will make a Google map, so we'll get street-level views, many of commercial strips with left-turn lights and unrealistically brief pedestrian signal timings.

bmpietz

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:12:16 -0500

Just spent the weekend in LA where drivers are required to stop for pedestrians as soon as they set foot in a crosswalk - any crosswalk, not just intersections - it was like a dream. They actually stopped! Because the city dishes out heavy fines if you don't stop, drivers actually obey the law (gasp!). All the suburban commuters who cruise around their neighborhoods pedestrian-free are a damned menace, speeding through yellow/red lights and taking right turns at speed. Pedestrians should always have the right of way. Yeah there are some dumb pedestrians - but you are in a CAR, no pedestrian can kill you with a swift kick to the bumper.

rdbaker43

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:06:29 -0500

18th & Florida. Surprised no one has been killed here. Westbound traffic on U Street crossing 18th to Florida almost always has at least one red light runner.

Fenster1977

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:04:57 -0500

oh yeah, and 17th and Corcoran. also two crosswalks, one on the north and one on the south. actually, it's four-way stop. but cars coast through there repeatedly.

MrTinDC

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:03:21 -0500

Crossing Connecticut Avenue NW at the Woodley Park Metro Station entrance is another dicey one. Northbound traffic has just cruised over the Taft Bridge at highway speed and drivers seem to stretch it out by going through the light when its yellow. The real solution there is to have another Metro exit constructed on the east side of Conn Ave, like there is at Cleveland Park.

McGillicuddy

Mon, 19 May 2008 12:00:30 -0500

while DC is one of the most educated cities in the U.S., it's also one of the most stoopidest. i've lived in other cites where pedestrians always have the right of way, and drivers know this. they're educated about it and everybody gets along just fine. given the transient nature of DC, the try-to-pronounce-my-country cab drivers, and the don't-give-a-shit-about-anything bus drivers, pedestrians will continue to be run over no matter what DDOT puts into place. which intersection scares me the most? yes.

lae

Mon, 19 May 2008 11:57:31 -0500

I feel like I'm in a game of Frogger everytime I try and cross Wisconsin Ave at Fulton St. Which is especially bad because there is a bus stop at the corner. I actually got 2 of 3 of the northbound lanes to stop this morning, only to have the farthest righthand lane zoom by and then almost run into the car that was taking advantage of my crossing to make the left. But at least I got my daily near-death experience out of the way early.

loganmo

Mon, 19 May 2008 11:56:14 -0500

I know this is for pedestrians, but going eastbound on O Street NW crossing 11th street is pretty dangerous-it's just about impossible to see the oncoming southbound traffic on 11th street until you are in the target range. With regard to traffic circles, they work great when they are used properly-which means sans the use of traffic signals. Having circles with stoplights totally defeats the purpose of them and really slows things down.

Fenster1977

Mon, 19 May 2008 11:56:12 -0500

definitely connecticut and wyoming. there are crosswalks at the north and south sides of the intersection. but drivers NEVER stop. either they're coming around a corner from the north, or they're coming up a hill from the south. they don't see you until it's too late and they're invariably speeding. if they do happen to stop and let you go, they always give you a shitty look like you're jaywalking. i can't count how many times i've stopped dead in the street, pointed to the sign and made a driver slunk down in their seat.

sumergocognito

Mon, 19 May 2008 11:51:25 -0500

Do traffic circles work as a "traffic calming measure" or just confuse the hell out of pedestrians? If they actually did calm traffic, DDOT should put in some more in the places where drivers like to step on the gas.

teddy

Mon, 19 May 2008 11:39:05 -0500

New Hampshire Ave. @ U and 16th Streets--as soon as drivers coming down 16th Street get to U Street, they inexplicably speed up if they are bearing right onto New Hampshire, and often seem angry that you are crossing the street, even though the pedestrian has the right of way AND the cross signal--it's an extension of the U Street crosswalk. But I also agree with Cranky, there are some really, really dumb/naive/entitlement-feeling pedestrians out there as well.

OldPosterKnownAsCranky

Mon, 19 May 2008 11:20:11 -0500

Will there be re-education camps for idiot pedestrians? Yesterday I was driving on Wisconsin Avenue and a pedestrian was walking in the crosswalk o' death. Except that he was on his cell phone and just walking across the street with nary a concern as to whether any cars were heading in his direction. I saw him and stopped, but the car next to me did not and could not see him due to the angle. It slammed on the brakes and stopped about 6 inches from the pedestrian. The pedestrian looks up from his cell phone, gives the driver the finger, and keeps walking with his ear to the phone. The other driver and I just looked at each other and shrugged. Moral of the story: Yes there are jackass drivers out there who have no understanding of how crosswalks work. But there are also lots of pedestrians out there who think they have a cone of invincibility that envelopes them as soon as they set foot in the crosswalk.

stmove

Mon, 19 May 2008 11:18:58 -0500

New pedestrian safety policy should be: Peds have the right of way in all cases (if you can't stop for even the worst jaywalker you are probably going to fast, or eating that chilli-dog to hard). If you hit a person who is out side of a car, while you are inside of a car, then you get sent to the public stocks freshly installed in Judiciary square, and are sentenced to 10 days of public flogging by disgruntled DMV workers with cat-o-nine-tales made from parking ticket reciepts, and random pedistrians can commit the unspeakable to you with thier Lanyards. Me thinks that would work.