May 19, 2008
Logan/Shaw Church Parking Woes Return
Everyone remembers the church parking debate that cluttered neighborhood email lists, local news media and blog comments back in 2006. In a report last night, WJLA appears to have brought the saga back to life.
As a refresher, back when Mayor Anthony Williams was in office, residents in the Logan Circle and Shaw neighborhoods began demanding that the tradition of not enforcing double parking laws on residential streets during church hours come to an end. Parishioners who largely live in suburban Maryland but still attend services at a dozen or so historic black churches in the neighborhood had long been illegally parking with impunity, and residents were fed up with not being able to park in their own neighborhoods on Sundays. Churchgoers argued that they had always attended these churches and their impact one day a week was minimal. Williams pledged to come to some sort of agreement between the two sides, but never really did, although he did repaint part of Vermont StreetAvenue NW to add additional diagonal parking spaces.
More recently, Mayor Adrian Fenty declared in February that all parking laws in the neighborhood would be enforced seven days a week -- meaning double parking and parking in illegal spots on Sundays would no longer fly. But since then, according to the WJLA report, some churches have started placing traffic cones and "no parking" signs along streets near them in an attempt to reserve spots for their ministers and members. Metropolitan Baptist Church, at 1225 R Street NW, and Lincoln Congregational Temple, at 1701 11th Street NW, are singled out as the biggest offenders in the story.
As church parking has long been one of our readership's favorite topics to debate, we'll be aggressively updating this story.
Photo of the Metropolitan Baptist Church by Wake Up the Giant
|
Churchpocalypse 2008!
If the residents won't remove the cones and signs, I'll gladly swing by and do it for them. Seriously.
why don't they just rent bikes?
All this grousing about gas prices; maybe more parishoners decide to carpool or take a van to church. And residents decide to sell their cars or use them less frequently on weekends.
$200/barrel oil solves more problems than it creates.
I live in Shaw, on a block that has a church on each end. Trust me, on Sunday you can't park anywhere near your own house.
What a disaster. Take a look at this map from WaPo that shows the number of churches in Logan Circle and the surrounding area... If each church were allowed to flout parking laws, I doubt there would be any parking left.
If cars are double-parked or blocking traffic, then it's time for some ticket-'n-tow.
I live around 15th and V St. in an apartment building and every Sunday it is indeed a carpocalypse. I've even seen shit so flagrant as someone double parking, in a crosswalk, next to a hydrant (on V St.). As annoying as this is for an athiest, I can't find myself all that bothered since I'm not usually awake until all the church goers are gone anyway.
To be fair, I did get kinda sad the day an old woman got a ticket for parking blocking a hydrant. "But I was going to church" she said, all upsent and old like.
Bitch should've prayed for no tickets.
it's not just the parking aspect. i made the huge mistake of driving through shaw with a U-Haul on a sunday morning once. i immediately regretted that decision. it was a complete shitshow. church had let out at least 30 minutes before and the people were just hanging out socializing. cars EVERYWHERE. you couldn't even drive down the street.
not to mention that every churchgoer in Shaw drives a full-size SUV. i couldn't believe what they were getting away with. i had to pull into a front yard to let oncoming traffic pass. took 10 minutes to go a block.
Things are a real problem on Park Rd. on Sundays too. In addition to the churches, there are the idiots who idle on the road (not in the loading area) in front of Giant. It putzs up the road for everyone on Park and everyone coming out of the parking garage.
You didn't notice all those churches when you moved into the area?
Those churches were there before you "migrated" into the neighborhood. If you don't like it move back to Georgetown or Arlington.
"You didn't notice all those churches when you moved into the area?
Those churches were there before you "migrated" into the neighborhood. If you don't like it move back to Georgetown or Arlington."
For one, it's one church in my area. I'm sorry I was unaware of the common knowledge that Sunday is apparently apocalyptic parking lawlessness day here when I moved to D.C. three years ago.
Also I moved from Atlanta, dicklock.
Here's a thought (from a Logan area resident):
The police should enforce the law. If the people of the District want to change the parking laws, then their elected representatives should do so. Isn't that, very roughly, how we handle the writing and enforcement of laws in this country? Enforce it or change it. Selective enforcement of laws is a slippery slope we need not attempt.
"You didn't notice all those churches when you moved into the area?"
Well, first off, just wanted to say that I don't drive so I really don't have a dog in this fight.
But having the churches in the area is not the problem- parking is. Churches know that parking is an issue but seem unwilling to do anything about the problem.
Besides encouraging people to use Metro, these congregations could contract with businesses that have extra parking on weekends and just run a parking shuttle before and after services. Yes, it's an expense, but it's probably less than the cost of the parking tickets.
There are solutions to a parking mess. Allowing cars to block traffic is not one of them.
Yes, DC police should enforce the parking laws. But, seriously - when do DC police enforce ANY laws? (See below re: pedestrian safety, for one.) DC is a 3rd-world shithole, and the police are shit-useless. As are all public services (DMV, tax office, DCRA - ever try to file a landlord complaint in the District? God help you.) Oh, and let's not forget the arsenic in the park, toxins in the drinking water, and the periodic 5-alarm fires that rage out of control because there's no frigging water pressure in the hydrants.
DC makes Asunción, Paraguay look good. Seriously.
"We respect the persons that live in this neighborhood; we respect that they have homes here, but we worship here and we are only here on Sunday," said Shirley Clark of Mount Gilead Baptist Church.
Blocking off parking spots on Saturday night is not respecting the residents of the neighborhood. It's forcing me to drive around the neighborhood, sometimes for 20-30 minutes to try and find a parking spot in this crowded area.
As for the ass that said I need to go back to G'town or Arlington, get over yourself. I moved here from Ohio, love living in the heart of the capital of the free world, and relish walking down the street to my church. I celebrate that I park my car on Friday evening and don't get in again until Monday morning. There are alot of churches wherever a person chooses to live. Find one you can walk to, get some exercise, get to know your neighbors and celebrate where you live, rather than clog up where your parents or grandparents lived.
"Waaaaaa"
Its not the problem of the church where their parishioners park.
Also, the notion that people will go out of their way to carpool or take the metro is not realistic.
Listen people, quit the complaining. I cant believe how petty you sound. You poor babies are inconvenienced ONE MORNING a week. Get over yourselves.
Look, you chose to move into a congested area. Shut up and deal with it or move to the 'burbs where you belong and leave the city to people who can handle it.
Do these churches not know that it is our manifest destiny to overspread the continent allotted by Providence for the free development of our yearly multiplying millions? Westward ho! On to Maryland!
You didn't notice all those churches when you moved into the area?
Those churches were there before you "migrated" into the neighborhood. If you don't like it move back to Georgetown or Arlington.
does someone need a tissue? Trying to make a gentrification and black/white issue doesn't really work in the logan area. Yes, the area has changed significantly but for the most part it was middle and upper class blacks who chose to move to PG. They weren't pushed out, tho the rising crime rates and depreciating home values did create a downward spiral effect from the late 70's until mid 90's, making the choice to move easier. So yes, the crackheads owned the area for 20 years, and now upper middle class whites and some black are moving back in. It's not their fault that the people who still go to church there bailed on the neighborhood and want to double park their Tahoe in front of the house they used to live in. Work with the churches to improve things, but you gotta enforce the law for the people who live there.
This is the kind of shit that happens when there's more cars than people in a city.
How bout this - Police should just tow cars illegaly parked with out of state tags. That way, no taxpayers/voters are inconvenienced by the towing.
Since everyone is focusing on the NW church parking problems, I thought I'd add some color from the NE side of the world that makes this situation almost not sound too bad. (Note: I previously lived around 13th and R)
The church at the corner of 9th and D street NE basically runs service or practices every day of the week. The parking is particularly horrendous on Sundays, but every day of the week is a problem in my neighborhood. This continues some days until 10pm or 11pm. Sundays can go well into the night.
The worst part is the noise. During a nice day, I can't keep my windows open because I can't hear anything inside of my house. Yes, I'm forced to shut my windows so I can watch something on TV.
Anyone who lives in this particular area knows exactly what I'm talking about. Also, just to add to what others are saying, I take a casual walk down the street quite often on these days. It's Maryland tag after Maryland tag on Escalades, Chrysler 300, and whatever the latest large vehicle of the day might be.
Hold on, are these the same groups praying for lower gas prices?
Actually, I was going to use this space to come up with a witty retort to a previous poster's keen insights on the modern city, but there's a marching band on 4th St. NW right now and I just can't handle the big, scary city anymore!
Selective enforcement of the law - and giving preference to churces - is a clear violation of establishment of religion and separation of church and state.
The police should enforce the parking laws; if the losers who won't find a parking space and walk to their church then they should just stay in the burbs where they moved to escape the crappy neighborhoods they abandoned that have now re-improved...
seriously people, we just need to borrow our neighbors to the north, Sherry and Garfield, to fix this situation.
thank you, parking wars & the PPA!
bweb6 - um...the parking habit of parishioners IS the problem of the church. last time i checked, i thought churches were pretty big advocates of following the law. i guess only when it doesn't inconvenience them? really, we already have jim graham. do we really need herds of jim graham wannabees parking wherever their fancy take them?
but - in terms of political savvy, churches better start working with their parishioners before actual tax-paying citizens start forcing the hand of the council, and ticketing is strict.
really, find restaurants/businesses with parking that would LOVE to have the sunday/churchy business and work out a deal and encourage parishioners to patronize. run a shuttle from those lots, if need be.
teriaki - i know exactly what you're talking about. ah, the joys of megaphoned proselytizing.
Don't the churches realize that they are just asking for trouble? Hopefully the mayor will jump in quickly, or this fight will take to the streets (I am not trying to pun, sorry). I don't live in DC--I live in MD but also don't go to church--so as an outsider and a bistander I hope to see this resovled legally and properly without special favors that show some folks to be above the law. I want to move back into DC someday, but without good decisions in cases like this I'll be skeptical.
Is it against the law to double-park or not? The answer is either yes or no. You can't have it both ways!!
bweb6 wrote:
"Waaaaaa. Its not the problem of the church where their parishioners park. Also, the notion that people will go out of their way to carpool or take the metro is not realistic. Listen people, quit the complaining. I cant believe how petty you sound. You poor babies are inconvenienced ONE MORNING a week. Get over yourselves. Look, you chose to move into a congested area. Shut up and deal with it or move to the 'burbs where you belong and leave the city to people who can handle it."
bweb6, you are as big a self-righteous asshole as I've come across on DCist, and that's a long list.
I'm not directly affected as I'm not in the immediate vicinity of a church, but unlike those who drive on weekdays and park on weekends I use my car to get things done on the weekends (I bike to work). I'd be seriously irked if if EVERY SUNDAY my car was blocked in when I need to run errands or want to get out of town for some hiking. It's not just "one day a week". It's one of two days when many people like to get up and out in the morning.
Newcomers need to respect neighborhood traditions, but people who moved out and come back for church must respect the people who now live here. It is the responsibility of the churches to find solutions.
If they don't, ticket and tow.
Oh, I've been living in DC for 16 years, so don't try telling me to move "back to the 'burbs."
ok, that's my favorite damn quote of the day. awesome.
wizzyliz has it right. quit giving me bullshit one way or another about how long, or how not long, some church, some individual, or some group has been in the neighborhood. is double parking legal? the answer is an emphatic no. so, enforce the law, and ticket the offenders. if they don't like it, fuckin' tough. thems the breaks.
"Listen people, quit the complaining. I cant believe how petty you sound. You poor babies are inconvenienced ONE MORNING a week. Get over yourselves.'
But wait, can't you ask the same thing of the parishioners? I mean, given that they live in the suburbs, and can drive to a fro the other six days of the week, shouldn't they be the ones to suck it up and be a little inconvenienced once a week?
"Look, you chose to move into a congested area. Shut up and deal with it or move to the 'burbs where you belong and leave the city to people who can handle it."
Once again, the parishioners did move to the burbs. They're the ones that can't apparently deal with the ordinary realities of city-life, i.e. the fact that you can't just park your car wherever you feel like. The residents are just asking for a level playing field. They're not asking for any special benefit; and they know that even without the churches, the realities of the neighborhood will create a parking crunch. They just resent the special treatment.
I don't really care that much about this. I don't live in these neighborhoods. But I don't like seeing selective enforcement of my city's laws to benefit a favored group. Particularly when that group doesn't pay any god damn taxes.
This is all about a bunch of showboating churchies who want to have their cake and eat it too.
I was one of the Logan Circle residents who worked with the churches on the parking problem in 06. I can tell you that if I could kick Mayor Williams and his church buddies in the balls I would.
Never if my life have I been lied to by public and church officials and then have them go behind our backs and make a back room deal to not enforce parking laws after the parking commission had agreed to do just that.
I personally loved the one church official telling Logan residents at an ANC meeting that we wouldn't have any parking problems if we all just went to church. Classic!
The solution is clear to me: those parking cones need to get "raptured."
Also: did you know that a small pebble, lodge between an inner tube valve and its cap, will let out air from the tire over a several hour period, causing the tire to go flat somewhere in Cheverly or Landover? I didn't know that!
And doubleparking is permitted according to Ezeziel: 25-17.
It's all fun and giggles until there's an actual fire or emergency in one of these blocks and emergency personnel can't get there because for decades the city has knowingly allowed fire hydrants and emergency access routes to be blocked.
Once the city gets sued a few times for a few tens of millions you may finally see a change. That's how it works in DC - we allow things to degenerate until we are sued senseless.
"You didn't notice all those churches when you moved into the area?"
Yes, but we also noticed all the parking regulations and signs. We assumed they would, you know, actually be reasonably enforced.
While I don't like in Shaw anymore, I remember the horrors of Sunday parking near Scripture Cathedral.
Just like the Nationals have been forced to find enough parking for their fans, churches are responsible to find parking for their parishioners. Would it really be a big deal for these churches to find parking lots for their parishoners to use? Better yet, TAKE METRO!
People weren't allowed to even PARK in the neighborhood on game days because it left the people who lived there with no parking. These folks are not only parking in the neighborhood (which would be fine), but parking curbside on Lincoln Park blocking a lane of traffic, double parking on East Capitol, blocking fire hydrants, crosswalks, etc.
But (and not to sound cynical here), given the power of the churches in DC (and their friendly associated interfaith network), I seriously doubt Fenty is going to actually stand against them on this. Many of these groups got him elected in the first place.
Shoot - solution for all the Capitol Hill churches: use the million or so empty spaces at RFK and shuttle from there! Crisis averted for one neighborhood. Good luck, Shaw/Logan Circle.
We have this same problem on Rhode Island Ave, NE where Mt. Calvary is located. What I don't understand is, why don't they just join Dr. Reverend Betty Peoples Jericho City near Fedex Field???
"bweb6, you are as big a self-righteous asshole as I've come across on DCist, and that's a long list."
I think bweb6 is making a feeble (but effective) attempt at winding everyone up.
Having said that, illegally parked churchgoers can fuck themselves.
Illegally parked churchgoers with MD plates can go fuck themselves sideways.
Funny thing is, as the demographics of the city change, this stuff is going away. You need only look at the difference between the rhetoric of Williams versus Fenty. Times they are a changin'.
Also, the notion that people will go out of their way to carpool or take the metro is not realistic.
So, in other words, it's unrealistic to hope that people will accept being inconvenienced one morning each week?
Listen people, quit the complaining. I cant believe how petty you sound. You poor babies are inconvenienced ONE MORNING a week. Get over yourselves.
Apparently so.
Hey, if I moved here from Prince George's, can I go back and illegally park, blocking in the newer residents' vehicles, whenever I want to go back to visit good old St. Jerome's? After all, the church was there before all the newcomers decided to move to Prince George's from Shaw, so if they don't like it, they should just move back to DC.
I live in this neighborhood -- 2 blocks from the church that puts the cones out. I moved here 5 years ago when it was not congested. The problem I've always had with the parking situation is more so people blocking the streets then as opposed to taking up parking spaces. It is ridiculous that I can not navigate the streets because some entity decides it has the "God given right" to inconvenience everyone else. The city has made vast modifications to the streets between Logan Circle and my house which created a lot more street parking. It is ridiculous that some continue to park illegally at this point. Further I'm outraged that a church thinks they can reserve parking the night before. I think I'll have to go over there and remove those cones and throw them in the trash as they are garbage polluting my city streets.
That's it, I'm calling Congress! Those churches are gonna get eminent domained!