DCist: Next Stop, Delaware Village, D.C.

TSWashCityPaper

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:35:23 -0500

And for more on D.C. neighborhoods... http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/neighborhoods/

sweth

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:10:07 -0500

Cranky: you need to read Achenbach's "The Grand Idea" (all about G.W. the land-speculator, Revolutionary hero, skinflint, and canal enthusiast), and Andro Linklater's "Measuring America" (Thomas Jefferson + the then-novel idea of private land ownership + surveying = a tasty story for cartogeeks). (actrotomazoophilia + "canal" enthusiasm = a tasty story for monkeyrot.)

monkeyrotica

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:34:11 -0500

Well, actrotomazoophilia still sounds a lot more fun than cartographilia, but that's just how I roll: on the floor, with no legs, in pudding.

OldPosterKnownAsCranky

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 11:11:03 -0500

14 & You: Sadly, I never went to the City Museum. Nor have I spent much time in the Washingtoniana room at the MLK Library/Homeless Rec Center/Sauna. I'm just a big geek for history and a map fetishist. It's a lot more socially acceptable than the shaved panda thing.

monkeyrotica

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:55:29 -0500

Also, George Washington didn't have wooden teeth. They were ivory, but George was a big Carlo Rossi fan. The wine stained his teeth a woodsy brown, hence the legend. Figures those freaking Freemasons would hoard all the good land to themselves and go into real estate speculation. This is just the sort of blinkered, phillistine pig ignorance I've come to expect from you noncreative garbage. You sit on your loathsome spotty behinds squeezing blackheads not giving a tinker's cuss about the struggling artist. YOU EXCEMENT! You hipocritical whining toadies with your color tv sets and your Tony Jacklin golfclubs and your bleading Masonic handshakes! You wouldn't let me join would you, you blackballing bastards! Well I wouldn't become a Freemason now if you got on your lousy, stinking, pollulant knees and begged me!

14thandYou

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:32:35 -0500

"Paterson only has one 't'.. and L'Enfant was fired from that job, too. Similar to DC, Paterson eventually implemented some of L'Enfant's plans." Correct on the spelling of Paterson. And, yep, L'Enfant was fired from that job as well. Although, as has been stated, the cause was less due to his design work and more to the fact that he was an insuuferable twit who was impossible to work with. It's good that he finally got the recognition that he deserved both in the architectural/city planning sphere, and in the public realm (his remains were eventually moved to Arlington Cemetary).

14thandYou

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:29:51 -0500

OldPoster, you got me seriously all hot and bothered reading that DC history stuff. I love it. We're probably among the very few in this city who actually mourned the death of the City Museum.

Politburo

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:04:33 -0500

Paterson only has one 't'.. and L'Enfant was fired from that job, too. Similar to DC, Paterson eventually implemented some of L'Enfant's plans.

OldPosterKnownAsCranky

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:04:27 -0500

Jefferson did indeed hate the L'Enfant plan. Under Tommy J's plan, the entire federal village would be in Foggy Bottom. And he wanted it to be nothing more than a village/small town. Because how gentlemen farmers kept it real. Washington was L'Enfant's main patron but even ol' Wooden Teeth got highly annoyed with the arrogant Frenchie and his refusal to follow directions. The canal down what's now Constitution Avenue was a nifty Euro-style element. But it eventually became a dumping ground for crap (literally), garbage, dead animals, and dead bodies. It apparently stunk like Gigli and was a source of disease outbreaks. Under the original plans, the Anacostia River (a/k/a the Eastern Branch) was supposed to be a major port - something the denizens of Alexandria were less than thrilled about since they had their own nice port. Another fun fact: Washington was idolized as a saintly mortal. Yet he was a huge land speculator. He owned lots of lands that would benefit hugely from the federal government being located here, rather than in the Philly area. He appointed cronies to be the first commissioners of the new federal district, and those commissioners also owned land that would greatly increase in value. Conflicts of interest were an unknown concept, apparently. One more fun fact (my geekness is in full force): the original eastern border of DC was supposed to be the Anacostia River. But, to win support from major landholders that owned lands in present-day Alexandria, Anacostia and PG County, Washington got Congress to shift the original planned borders further south and east, to encompass present-day Wards 7 and 8 and Old Town Alexandria. Alexandria retroceded in the mid-1800s mainly due to concerns that Congress would ban slavery in DC. This was not good for Alexandria's booming slavery business .

IMGoph

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 08:53:13 -0500

damn right us geeks are hot. at least, that's what i'm told... :)

monkeyrotica

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 08:14:26 -0500

Geeks are hot. Steve Urkel's last words before he suffocated himself in his Army surplus gas mask and sleeping bag.

Hillman

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:10:47 -0500

"I am a geek. I am fine with it." Geeks are hot.

monkeyrotica

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 06:02:06 -0500

The true reasoning behind traffic circles is that a cannon could be placed in the center of them and fire down four or five streets at one time. Hint, hint. L'Enfant was way ahead of his time in developing "traffic calming" measures. But in the case of Dupont Circle, you're definitely going to need more cannon.

16th Street Line

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:36:40 -0500

Also, to add to Boots' clarifications above, L'Enfant originally envisioned the Mall as bordered by great residences, not great museums and official buildings. It was going to be a very grand version of the Northeastern commons, surrounded by the homes of the great and good. I personally think what we've got now, while less personal, is better and speaks more to the Mall's civic function.

Vaughan

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:36:04 -0500

i dunno, dcster. the pools on the mall are pretty much a disaster now...but i guess if you had inlets and outlets it would be ok. something along the lines of san antonio's river?

DCster

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:55:00 -0500

"Imagine in the heart of the city a slow moving channel of water, bordered by overarching, leafy trees, with footbridges, lampposts, stairs, and benches of all designs, with flower beds on the banks, leisure boats on the water, and sidewalk cafes and restaurants in the shade..." Reid beat me to it (by a few hours) that that is the Georgetown canal, but I was going to agree with cire's vision that a Mall canal would be great (now, if not back in the malaria-filled day). The key would be its small size (not Tidal basin wide!), bountiful trees (not the sun beaming down on the Mall) and the restaurants (not hot dog vendors) - a sad loss in my mind as well!

Sneezy

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:41:04 -0500

At the Kentucky embassy, the time would always be 4:20.

16th Street Line

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:38:21 -0500

Boots has got it right, and makes me think he is my former architecture professor (not really).

Reid

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:24:23 -0500

"Imagine in the heart of the city a slow moving channel of water, bordered by overarching, leafy trees, with footbridges, lampposts, stairs, and benches of all designs, with flower beds on the banks, leisure boats on the water, and sidewalk cafes and restaurants in the shade..." That exists in Georgetown, and it's not really that great. If it were on the Mall, all it would be would be even more touristy. It would basically be the Tidal Basin, but stretched out.

14thandYou

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:17:31 -0500

"@mojotron: kinda. i heard they were to make it confusing for invading armies (ie, the British) and to take longer to get across the city." That's actually an urban legend, although the reasoning did have to do with defense, at least in part. The true reasoning behind traffic circles is that a cannon could be placed in the center of them and fire down four or five streets at one time.

14thandYou

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:15:39 -0500

"One of the saddest losses of the L'Enfant design was the replacement of his canal system (seen clearly in your engraving) by Constitution Avenue. Imagine in the heart of the city a slow moving channel of water, bordered by overarching, leafy trees, with footbridges, lampposts, stairs, and benches of all designs, with flower beds on the banks, leisure boats on the water, and sidewalk cafes and restaurants in the shade..." Now, imagine that canal filled with trash, sewage, and malaria-carrying mosquitos, and you begin to understand why it was removed.

Vaughan

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:15:17 -0500

@ cire: and gondola cabs, of course. my god, can you imagine the fares? :) kidding - that would be pretty cool. except you'd have the dc government creating a plan where all boats have to dock and undock at the same place.

Boots

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:09:12 -0500

Old Poster is the most right of everyone here. L'Enfant was indeed an insufferable ass, and apparently was hated by Jefferson, at least my assumption from the correspondence I have read. Washington however seemed to have liked L'Enfant, and had originally contracted him to build the capitol, but after Washington died, L'Enfant was off the job pretty quick. Now as far as the plans, the layout of the city was based on Versailles, where L'Enfant had grown up, his father had been a bureaucrat there. The avenues arranged to create grand vistas of important buildings ie. the Capitol, the Executive Mansion, the Supreme Court (which should have been at Mt Vernon Square if my memory serves) and a National Church, (yes a National Church). In the original plan by L'Enfant, which the above image is NOT, Pennsylvania avenue would have been bent half way, and a lot of other streets too, to allow for views of other important Federal buildings along the avenues. These buildings were initially to be the focii of the neighborhoods, with lots being sold around them first, creating neighborhoods. Jefferson however dis not like this plan and when he got his way, the entire city was up for sale, and consequently the development was a lot more sprawling. (A lesson apparently not learned in development today)

stinkeye

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:59:15 -0500

washington dc - city of magnificent intentions

Reid

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:59:13 -0500

"Pennsylvania would have to cough up some dough for their embassy, unless they could co-locate with Canada." ...or they bought something in south-east of Eastern Market. Pennsylvania Ave. goes to just about to the bay. I'm sure the Commonwealth could swing something across the river. There used to be an Ohio Ave. It cut through the Federal Triangle from 15th to Constitution. Now they're stuck with California as the only ones with a "Drive" not an "Avenue".

cire

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:58:04 -0500

One of the saddest losses of the L'Enfant design was the replacement of his canal system (seen clearly in your engraving) by Constitution Avenue. Imagine in the heart of the city a slow moving channel of water, bordered by overarching, leafy trees, with footbridges, lampposts, stairs, and benches of all designs, with flower beds on the banks, leisure boats on the water, and sidewalk cafes and restaurants in the shade...

14thandYou

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:57:43 -0500

OldPoster, you nailed it. We must be fellow Washingtonian/L'Enfant geeks. Sommer: L'Enfant was actually only partially known for his architectural work. He designed significant buildings in both Philadelphia and New York, but he was a very skilled sketch artist (he did the sketchings/artwork for the original U.S. Army Field Manual, as well as the seal for the Society of the Cincinnati) as well as a gifted painter. Washington, DC was his first foray into city planning. His second--and last--was, oddly enough, Patterson, NJ (at the request of Alexander Hamilton).

TEOGR

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:52:42 -0500

Actually Reid, Texas was an independent republic for some time before it became a State, and it did, in fact, have an embassy in London. Though I believe it was a few blocks away from Trafalgar Square where "Texas Embassy" restaurant is located. Also said establishment is, if I remember correctly, a touristy Tex-Mex place rather than a steakhouse. Happy to contribute to the nerdiness.

fedward

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:50:49 -0500

Who'd be responsible for Okie St. NE under that plan, Oklahoma or California?

Stanton Park

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:48:17 -0500

Doesn't Florida have a embassy-type "House" on that Hill that doubles as a hotel? Could be a cool idea is expanded upon Yes. They list their address as Number One Second Street, NE. Thinking about the states where I have lived, the Ohio embassy would definitely get the best spot -- perhaps where The Awakening used to be. Nobody from Minnesota would dare visit their embassy. I have to admit, I never knew where Iowa Avenue was before. Pennsylvania would have to cough up some dough for their embassy, unless they could co-locate with Canada.

Reid

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:44:41 -0500

"That would encourage them to have an actual interest in the city, since their politicians piously get up and say they all represent DC." Or it also could lead them to have an even stronger notion that somehow DC is "owned" by the rest of the country, and for that reason the rest of the country should have a larger say in what happens here than it does in, say, Sheboygan. This idea reminds me of how when I was living in London, I saw the Texas Embassy. For a minute I got really pissed off; "who the hell do they think they are to have their own god damn embassy?" It's a steakhouse. That would be a better idea than to create fifty tourist bureaus. Let's have fifty restaurants featuring the local cusine of the fifty states. Maine Lobsters on Maine Ave? Aya! Creole on Louisiana Ave? I gare-run-tee! Early-bird Special on Florida Ave? Too humid, with all this moisture!

Mike Licht

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:42:38 -0500

Why not have all those State Associations adopt the avenues named after their respective states? Let them have annual parades down them if they want, and contribute to the upkeep of those ratty little parks along them?

OldPosterKnownAsCranky

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:41:26 -0500

I actually knew this trivia info. I just finished reading two books on DC's founding (Washington Burning, and Washington something-or-other). The creation of DC was a total clusterfudge. Some things never change when it comes to DC. But Washington & Co. had tremendous problems selling lots in the newly created town and collecting money for those lot sales. It was basically a total debacle each time they did land sales. And without the money from those land sales, infrastructure couldn't be built. The issue was basically solved after a tightwad Congress finally opened its wallet and paid for the construction. One of the biggest problems with the L'Enfant plan was L'Enfant himself. He was an insufferable arrogant ass. And he had a habit of never giving the design plans to those who had paid for them. He eventually died penniless and was constantly harassing anyone that would listen that he was owed large sums of money for his designs. I am a geek. I am fine with it.

Sommer Mathis

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:34:45 -0500

14thandYou, I guess I always think of him more simply as an architect who had a design that no one appreciated until after he was gone. But your point is taken -- clearly he did use his own notions about planning to dream up a city that would be livable.

erincarly

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:32:34 -0500

@mojotron: kinda. i heard they were to make it confusing for invading armies (ie, the British) and to take longer to get across the city.

14thandYou

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:29:03 -0500

"I think he would also be unhappy with the way the National Mall has turned out, cut off from the city by monumental buildings." I doubt it. The Mall, as it is currently laid out, was the result of the 1902 MacMillan Plan, which sought to align Washington's central core within the vision originally pursued by L'Enfant. Prior to 1902, the Mall was in worse shape than it is now (it even had railroad tracks parsing through its center), and the Mall itself was a series of disconnected winding pathways through what was essentially a swamp. L'Enfant's plan was for the Mall to present itself as a sweeping vista stretching out from the U.S. Capitol, surrounded by a core of governmental buildings, monuments and memorials.

Mojotron

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:27:36 -0500

Is it true that the traffic circles were originally designed as makeshift fortresses to fight off the British? (Not kidding)

IHeartDC

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:26:36 -0500

Now, if the idea was that residents of each little state village would be able to vote in that state, we all missed out.

14thandYou

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:21:34 -0500

Yes, this was discussed in Scott Berg's book about L'Enfant that came out last year. L'Enfant thought that the states would compete with one another over who could have the best "state square" and it would aid the District (then in its infancy) in both residential and commercial development. Of course, it never quite took off that way. But this statement: "Who knew L'Enfant also dabbled in urban planning?" is confounding. What, exactly, do you think the laying out of a city is, if not urban planning? The precise grid pattern, the careful laying out of city parks and squares, the implicit demand for a city filled with monuments and monumental buildings...why, everything down to the placement of the U.S. Capitol atop (then) Jenkins Hill speaks to the deliberate thought process of one of the greatest (and under-appreciated) urban planners of the western world. L'Enfant didn't simply "dabble" in urban planning, it's what he is best known for.

DC1974

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:05:46 -0500

This would have been an interesting idea. L'Enfant definitely wanted more mixed uses for his city. East Capital was to be a grand street out to a proposed port of Washington, the core of DC's bustling downtown, not the quiet street of a residential neighborhood. I think he would also be unhappy with the way the National Mall has turned out, cut off from the city by monumental buildings.

Rukasu

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:59:58 -0500

Doesn't Florida have a embassy-type "House" on that Hill that doubles as a hotel? Could be a cool idea is expanded upon

angrypenguin

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:55:07 -0500

Where would Delaware Village be? Would it include an enormous bridge over Rock Creek Park (perhaps near Klingle road?) I'd like to avoid the tolls.

Hillman

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:55:00 -0500

Brilliant idea. I've long proposed making each state have an 'embassy' of sorts on the street they have named after them in DC. That would encourage them to have an actual interest in the city, since their politicians piously get up and say they all represent DC.

smperk

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:46:22 -0500

Wow, I wonder how the transgression of gangs would've gone if we had villages instead