DCist: Intercity Bus Terminal Planned for Southwest

WestEnder

Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:33:24 -0500

Way to foul up a great urban amenity, DC bureaucrats. L'Enfant Plaza? Who the hell lives anywhere near there? Thanks for adding 30 minutes to my trip, each way.

FourthandEye

Sun, 22 Jun 2008 01:39:51 -0500

"Some passengers who are inconvenienced might have legal standing for such a challenge, too." Sue over the inconvenience of having to taking a 5 min metro ride from Gallery Place to L'Enfant? I'd hardly call the reduced convenience having to metro for a few extra minutes or having fewer options to buy coffee a travesty worth suing our city over.

bcrago77

Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:53:24 -0500

(I left this comment on the original Examiner article, but meant to leave it here.) I'm late to the party, but 2 points: 1) Note the last sentence of the Examiner article: "The new rules do not apply to bus services like Greyhound that queue in a depot or in a private parking lot." So it seems that BoltBus, DC2NY, etc. can just buy a parking lot, or if that's too expensive, make a lease arrangement with a private parking lot. That's, of course, assuming the idiot DC government doesn't close off this loophole. But that's still a significant expense, which could destroy the rationale for these services by raising ticket prices. 2) We're dealing with INTER-state commerce here, so the Constitution's Commerce Clause comes into play, including the Supreme Court's Dormant or Negative Commerce Clause jurisprudence, which bars local government's ability to unduly restrict interstate commerce, even in areas in which Congress has not specifically legislated. So the DC government idiots are treading in thin ice here. I doubt DC2NY or the Chinatown buses have the cash to put up a legal challenge, but BoltBus is a joint venture of Greyhound and Peter Pan. Some passengers who are inconvenienced might have legal standing for such a challenge, too. Just get the Institute for Justice or some other libertarian legal organization to take it :-)

erahk0

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:55:00 -0500

@FourthandEye - I don't see your point - at least in this type of deal since the cost to implant the transit hub into the bones of a larger commercial project are comparatively small. As for other municipal "vanity" projects like Ball Parks and civic centers and malls, etc i might agree. And now i'm off to purchase a single while we still have that luxury.

FourthandEye

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:55:24 -0500

@erahk0 - If you create a contingency for the developer it has to be paid for - right? The developer just figures that contingency into the financials and bid less for the land. So the District doesn't spend any of it's dollars directly on the project. Instead it chooses to generate less money in the sale of the land to fund the contingency. That revenue that they forgo could have been used to fund another transit project. There are no free lunches my friend... You always pay either directly or indirectly.

erahk0

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:09:40 -0500

What money is the gov. spending? Developer buys land with rights to build on it and contingency to include public transit terminal within the footprint they must excavate and pour anyway. Local developers already make similar deals to build on land. Leasors (sp?) would benefit and their agreements will support it. In the not so far off future, Transit Terminal will be more needed than ever and for more than intercity bus lines. This concept can plug-in to other d'town locations - but the old convention center happens to work well logistacally.

FourthandEye

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:24:44 -0500

@erahk0 - the difference between providing incentives and the government spending the money itself isn't that vastly different. From one perspective it can considered just creative accounting. Also, some in this thread are acting as if the District still has the ability to use the Old Convention Center site for a bus station. All the recent news I've read is that Hines-Archstone has been selected as the developer. They're on the hook to develop residential, office, hotel, retail, 1/2 acre park and a plaza. The retail is discussed as possibly including a 2nd department store for the downtown area. The central library component appears to have been taken off the table as I seem to recall Jack Evans being quoted as saying something along the lines of "the site the most valuable undeveloped parcel on the east coast and thereby too valuable to use on any non-revenue entity". Perhaps the district government should have insisted upon a significant public amenity rather than just the traditional mixed use economic development packaging of office, residential, hotel and retail. But this development will create tax/leasing revenue, affordable units, 2500 retail jobs, etc... Last point I'll add: In the end whether it's spending transit dollars or offering incentives you still have to prioritize your projects. I really don't see how ensuring the NY/DC buses stay in Chinatown versus L'Enfant vaults to the top of our transit priorities such that we should be building a downtown facility for these buses. Improving transit within OUR city is more important than making transit to NYC 10% more convenient.

erahk0

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:34:23 -0500

@FourthandEye: No one said anything about DDOT buying any land of the sort. My idea would offer developers to purchase the land and get incentives to build a commercial complex on it. Construction of the bus transit terminal would be covered by them in this project and would need to be developed first. This transit terminal would also take hotel buses (keeping them off residential parking spaces) and other commercial bus enterprises as well - not just the intercity buses that kicked this discussion off. Metro might consider expanding their already proposed moving sidewalk tunnels to join stations like Gallerie Place, Metro Center & any other nearby stations with this bus transit hub.

llemma

Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:27:16 -0500

As usual, living in Arlington turns out to be the most convenient option for life in DC; my bus leaves from the Cosi on my block.

FourthandEye

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 23:49:29 -0500

Seriously? People want DDOT to buy land and/or build an underground bus depot that will cost hundreds of millions for these companies that run $25 trips to NYC? Are we nuts? I definitely like visiting NYC several times a year. But I want my transit earmarked tax dollars spent on options helping us getting around OUR city. Not helping bus companies that haul people up I-95 more revenue... At most let's take away a few lanes of curb parking in Chinatown and allow the bus companies to purchase that curb space. Those companies that won't pay the asking price go to L'Enfant or Union Station. Just allowing these buses to park anywhere illegally downtown is bunk. I was at West Elm a couple weeks ago and the entire time (>30 mins) an empty Bolt Bus was just double parked and idling in the street. That tells me some regulation is overdue.

Gary1983

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:11:16 -0500

I find it ironic that we're blaming busses for congestion. 55 people on a bus occupy the same amount of street space as 2-10 people in cars. I'd think that "congestion" due to busses is a good problem to have. Sure, it's something that you should try to reduce regardless, but reducing bus congestion by potentially reducing buses is exactly the wrong approach. I ride Chinatown every week, and L'Enfant would actually be slightly more convenient for me. But I still think it's a bad idea.

IMGoph

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:12:48 -0500

16th street line: the convention center option is not a short term option. erahk0's idea was to build an underground bus terminal there. that would be eminently do-able now, before real construction begins there.

16th Street Line

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:54:28 -0500

Yeah, I'm sure DDOT has the money to buy up a block's worth of parking in Chinatown. That real estate is expensive, man. And the convention center parking is at best a very short-term option, because pretty soon it's going to be built upon.

mel21clc

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:38:56 -0500

The great thing about these intercity buses is that they pick up and drop off in vibrant, interesting areas of town. From the DC government's perspective, when people come to DC from NY, they ought to be encouraged to spend as much money as possible, as quickly as possible, which increases tax revenue. They also ought to think something along the lines of, "Wow, I really have a good time in DC. I could totally live here and/or visit again soon," which, again, increases the amount of revenue streaming to the city. The more people come, the more money DC makes. Easy enough to figure out. However, if people are shuttled out to L'Enfant to be turned out onto 70's government architecture and gray everywhere, with no people or engaging activities, they are going to leave as quickly as possible. They are not going to linger or be drawn into storefronts (what storefronts?) or think that nice little cave with the cheap-looking kiosks is a good substitute for a real shopping district. Therefore, they will not be spending money and DC loses out. Again. Taking out one block of parking near Metro Center to replace it with Chinatown bus parking would be a much, much smarter move than this drivel. They could have taxis here when the buses are not in residence, and replace a block's worth of the current taxi stands with metered parking, if they're particularly concerned about maintaining on-street parking spaces. But having the whole block available for bus parking would lessen the incidences of the back of the bus poking into traffic (since the driver wouldn't have to park between cars) and would encourage repeat tourism. Win-win.

rosswon

Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:07:50 -0500

Leave it up to this backwards azz city to F*ck Up something good. I use the Eastern Shuttle 2-3 times a month to go to NY. You would think a city as congested with traffic as NY would be the one with the issue's about these private busses, but instead they welcome them and put their names on the city bus stop signs so you know where to pick therm up. Come here DC's Finest (police) running them down trying to give tickets. It's ridiculous SW, you cannot Truly be "FROM" DC and say that SW is as convenient as the CENTER of the city... Are you kidding me 295 from that end at any giving time of day is backed up with construction traffic which has been going on for years. It's typical, dumb, DC Politriks at it's finest. Which always makes DC Late.

soulquarian84

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:51:37 -0500

it's really not that serious losers so relax. it will be hilarious to see so many lame-o's forced to step out of their little bubbles and akwardly stumble around shadows in sw. ha. welcome to drama city.

cminus

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:27:18 -0500

Apparently hell hath no fury like a red-line rider who might have to transfer. To be fair, since the Orange Line went on its recent self-immolation streak, the Red Line does hold the distinction of Metro's least sucky line. If I lived on it, I'd be very unhappy abouy having to transfer to any other line.

JustJenny

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:13:56 -0500

The BlotBus and the MegaBus pick people up on 11th and G streets NW I think. That's NEVER full of traffic.

16th Street Line

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:41:32 -0500

@Monkey: A bridge to the 22nd century?

gerhardj

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:05:41 -0500

This could be a more important decision than the city realizes. In the not-too-distant future, if energy costs keep going the way they are, intercity bus transportation could be a major growth industry. Buses are the only feasible long-distant public transport with the flexibility that the Chinatown/etc buses have displayed. I think including a terminal in the old convention center site is a fantastic idea but probably too late. But DC needs to look at this not just as a chance to round up a bunch of unregulated bus lines but as an important part of its future infrastructure. I think moving things to L'Enfant Plaza would be a mistake (love the convenience factor of walking out of work onto a bus downtown or in Chinatown), but if they do create a terminal, they ought to think it through and do it well. And I agree with the pants@55 about the likely Greyhound/Peter Pan lobbying. The wikipedia "Chinatown bus lines" article makes the same implication about Boston.

FourthandEye

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:18:00 -0500

Apparently hell hath no fury like a red-line rider who might have to transfer... mo' money, mo' problems...

erahk0

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:59:46 -0500

Tour buses come and go in our city all of the time so taxis and (smaller) shuttle buses would be circulating 24/7 out of the center to all points around the city just like you expect at any major transportation port.

pants

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:54:26 -0500

This is terrible. This is one area where I agree with the libetarian sentiment of letting the market decide rather than the gubment--or those who lobby the government. Those chinatown stops are there for a reason--because they serve that specific community and location. Here's why this sucks: "The myriad bus services, a staple of the downtown for years, will face fines up to $1,500 for loading outside of that zone, which can accommodate only two buses at a time." Want to bet that greyhound and peter pan lobbied for this? I smell a rat. What about late night pick ups and drop offs? Metro is open late on weekends, but it isn't an all night service. I'd rather be in Chinatown or metro center at 2 am than L'Enfant. Are there any bars or restaurants there for someone to kill time in? Particularly those that are open late? This is a move to kill these bus services by making them less convenient. Allegedly this is over safety concerns. Have there been any pedestrian accidents with these busses? None that I've heard about. Plenty involving metrobus (e.g., Marion Barry or the two women who got hit on valentines day), but none involving these private services.

erahk0

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:54:03 -0500

IMGoph: No Government planning needed. Convention site is only 2 red line stops from Union Station. Infrastructure already in place, land is ready willing and able. All the gov needs to do is allow the bidding and planning to start. Union station makes sense from a Total Transit Center but the traffic problems on Mass Ave are already pretty horrible. The only other "best" alternative location i think is a viable option is the FL Ave Markets (FL & NY Ave.s). But i would miss my special grocers.

badtzmaru

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:40:57 -0500

Yay! L'Enfant Plaza is much closer to me so f*** all y'all since that is how most of you feel about things in this city. Selfish pricks. There are positives to this idea. But there should be freedom for buses to pick up at locations across the city.

dc_chica

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:39:03 -0500

The air rights above the tracks at Union Station have already been bought by a private developer (Akridge) -- but what you suggest sounds similar to Boston's South Station. I don't recall if buses were allowed to pick up elsewhere in Boston and Cambridge, but South Station includes a train station, T station, and bus terminal (for all intercity buses including Greyhound, Chinatown buses, etc). I kind of liked it (or, should I say, the procrastinator in me liked it) b/c based on timing, lines, etc, a bus rider without a ticket could walk up, see which bus company had the shortest line and the next departing bus, and pick which bus to ride on the spot. That said, I'm intrigued by the idea of making bus companies pay to pick up in the most "desirably located" bus stops. (I assume any bus company would be able to pick up at a central location like the sites proposed in SW or the old convention center). To the extent that the city needs to manage traffic in high congestion areas, I support its authority to do something. I'm not sure that one bus terminal is the answer -- does anyone know if other alternatives have been studied? If they're concerned about downtown traffic, what about restictions that only apply on weekdays?

monkeyrotica

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:18:02 -0500

I'm pretty sure the air rights above Union Station have already been sold, or are about to be. Can't imagine DC using valuable, taxable real estate for a parking lot, but stranger things have happened. Look at Jim Graham. Zing!

funfriends

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:08:52 -0500

yay!! add government in to something that works well and see if it works worse!!

wheresmycoffee

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:04:54 -0500

perhaps it should be included in a larger scope of union station. the air rights could be utilized for this purpose. this would better integrate our transit systems

miss bee

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:02:12 -0500

this totally screws up my chinatown bus routine. i am not impressed.

IMGoph

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:58:02 -0500

erahk0: what you're proposing, with an underground bus terminal at the old convention center site, is brilliant. that's why it fails. you're asking the city to do some comprehensive planning, instead of doing things piecemeal. that ain't how we roll in DC!

Nivad

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:56:44 -0500

Aren't the Dupont buses really popular because so many of the people using these buses live/work in the NW along the red line, particularily the Dupont area? This would seem to inconvenience a disproportionate percentage of the chinatown bus ridership, especially with the spotty weekend metro service. If they really want to fix traffic, they should look at closing some of the streets in DC. There are far too many intersections and stoplights in this town, and they never seem to be timed properly. For that matter, why do traffic circles even have stoplights? Urban planning in this town makes no sense.

GreenLiner

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:43:31 -0500

As someone who lives off of the Green/Yellow lines, I love that this depot will be only 2 short blocks away from the L'Enfant Plaza metro station! I hope DDOT applies some of the fees to build capopies for awaiting passengers to huddle under while awaiting their buses.

monkeyrotica

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:25:22 -0500

Theoretically, some of the bus companies might decide to start operating out of Bethesda or Silver Spring for MD/Redline folks. Isn't that how it usually works? 1. Start something cool. 2. DC decides to gouge and overregulate said cool thing. 3. Cool thing decides to move outside DC. 4. Cool thing gets replaced by something that sucks. 5. DCists complain about how everything sucks. I say build a bridge out of 16th Street Line.

OldPosterKnownAsCranky

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:03:29 -0500

16th Street Line's idea makes great sense. Which means..... 16th Street Line is a witch! Burn her/him!

ahaak

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:49:32 -0500

Theoretically, some of the bus companies might decide to start operating out of Bethesda or Silver Spring for MD/Redline folks. Certainly it'd be cheaper for me to catch a cab to Bethesda from my apartment to catch a 7am bus than it is to catch one downtown. I still say requiring permits for specific locations makes more sense than putting everyone in one spot. I mean, is the bus that leaves from Tenleytown really bothering anyone?

stinkeye

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:47:55 -0500

Will this apply to church buses?

erahk0

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:46:44 -0500

NY Ave has been routing large heavy vehicle traffic and and more of it than any other avenue or DC corridor for decades. There are even plans to widen it two extra lanes to handle more commercial traffic. It offers a direct line from central downtown to points NE of our city without using the beltway. Former convention center (which is right next to the original greyhound station i remember fondly) is right on NY Ave. Folks in SW can get on the yellow/green lines and be in ChinaTown in a couple of minutes. Orangle line folks in capital hill can be at metro center and walk easily to the big bus terminal in couple of minutes too. There are a bunch a metro bus lines also runing all week long nearby too. Keep the smokin buses downtown where everyone can get to them.

monkeyrotica

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:36:24 -0500

We actually looked at the daycare that's located at L'enfant Plaza. Their outdoor play area is located right above the opening to the 95 Tunnel. Fumier than a truck weigh station and twice as noisy. DC really needs to have the private sector handle this bus stob nonsense. That way, when they locate the station at RFK, passengers would have much easier access to the Flaming Gaylord Poop Chute to National Harbor. Lets keep those dollars in local hands. There's nothing wrong with this situation that waterslides full of bbq sauce can't fix.

loganmo

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:23:18 -0500

Monkey-don't leave out the US Dept of ED employees-hopefully the fumes won't hinder them from leaving children behind

itsjustme

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:21:49 -0500

This just screws with red liners who use the dupont and metro center stops. You know living in MD is bad enough, please make my weekend escapes to NYC easier.

erahk0

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:01:50 -0500

RFK is a great site but logistically poor location. If DCgov offers a builder to locate a giant commercial complex on top of the big bus terminal, then the old convention center will work.

Moose

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:01:11 -0500

You know, there are folks who live in SW, people. Though thankfully not right beside the proposed bus zone - we get enough buses illegally idling down on Water Street as it is, thankyouverymuch. The streets down under L'Enfant would seem better sized and more effective for getting the buses in and out of the city with a minimum of time spent in city traffic, or blocking busy city streets. And as Monkey points out, the only things in the immediate area tend to be Federal office buildings (though not DOT, Monkey, they moved to the Navy Yard - substitute NASA instead). And with all but one line running through L'Enfant station, it's not all that inconvenient for Metro-bound travellers.

16th Street Line

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:57:13 -0500

Idling buses are a traffic and pollution nuisance, so I can definitely see why the DDOT employees would think about implementing a policy like this. It gets the buses away from crowded, pedestrian-heavy entertainment districts like Chinatown and Dupont. That's better for drivers at Friday rush hour, but also better for pedestrians and people who want to enjoy a beer outdoors in those areas. But the stop definitely does inconvenience red-liners and people who work downtown. It serves four metro lines, instead of five. Jtmeyer is right when he says the foul-up here is removing the other locations throughout the city as pickup spots. What DDOT should really be investigating is how to create several pickup spots throughout the city that are 1) away from traffic and restaurants, and 2) still convenient to metro and bus lines. So, maybe you make the buses avoid parking right at 7th and H, and require they move down the block to 8th Street, which is pretty dead. You have them line up on N Street in Dupont instead of right at the Metro entrance. And you designate a spot in Foggy Bottom that is low on traffic (I've seen DC2NY, I think, dropping off GW kids at 23rd and I), etc. Then, you make the companies bid for a set number of permits for the most popular spots, like at Chinatown. Those will naturally cost more than the slots at the less popular slots, like Foggy Bottom. It will also push buses out toward stops at metro termini like Greenbelt, which would be nice because those will probably make for quicker trips. It's a free market solution that cuts down on traffic congestion, and makes it so I don't have to breathe through exhaust while enjoying a Tsingtao in Chinatown (though that would probably be a more authentic Chinese experience anyways).

Bethesdaist

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:55:38 -0500

One more reason for me to love Vamoose and their Bethesda Metro stop route. Actually, one of the only reasons to love living in Bethesda. How is it NY can be okay with all the buses parking behind Madison Square Garden, but DC flips out over the Chinatown buses? Yet one more thing for Jennifer 8. Lee to pounce on.

monkeyrotica

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:52:16 -0500

There used to be a Greyhound Station on NY Avenue north of Metro Center. Real estate prices drove them out. They moved to the area north of Union Station. Same thing happened. You've got all those parking lots south of where AV used to be, but again, all that area's due for development. They should put it at the RFK Stadium Metro. It never gets used outside of events, there's plenty of parking, you've got instant access to 295. But of course, boo hoo, it's inconvenient for someone. Go ride a freaking doorknob for all I care.

erahk0

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:46:02 -0500

Big Bus Terminal is sorely needed but Union Station is not practical. Former Convention site is, i think. Metro accessible, lot's of wide avenues circulating around it, Close to downtown and dense area of hotels. Great location as a hub for smaller buses to circulate to other nodes and neighborhoods to get users to and from 24/7.

OldPosterKnownAsCranky

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:43:08 -0500

DDOT published notice of this plan in the DC Register a few weeks ago. (What? You don't read the DC Register? What's wrong with you?!) What DDOT should have done was gone to the various bus companies to let them know what they were planning, so that the bus companies could let their customers know about the changes. And Why the Eff is Terry Lynch quoted in this story? That man is a total quote whore. You need a quote? He's got one for you. No matter if it has absolutely nothing to do with his day job.

angrypenguin

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:41:41 -0500

@jtmeyer This actually makes sense: multiple options. So, let's find three places in the city that are: a) metro-accessible from multiple lines b) going to lessen the traffic problems caused by the current practice of buses being allowed to be pretty much anywhere (Dupont and Chinatown are a mess) c) satisfy the personal whims of Whiny McRedline and his band of libertarian nouveau bohemians. @ everyone who drives into DC, parks in super-congested Dupont/etc., and leaves for the weekend: that's obnoxious. I hope you get caught behind five bunched metrobuses that stick their tale out and miss your commuter bus at L'Enfant Plaza.

sworthy

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:40:23 -0500

So, generally, DCist readers don't like the location switch. What about the whole idea of a bus terminal in general? Perhaps if it was in a different spot like Union Station?

erahk0

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:30:43 -0500

I've wanted to see a mega bus terminal with lot's of underground parking @ the site of the old convention center. This location is good because it's easy access from NY Ave. Smaller shuttles would circulate from this hub to service hotels and Malls and other DC sites like the ball fields. I hate the idling buses parked whereever they like. So this hub would park all of the touring buses that park and idle in residential rneighborhoods - usually within a couple blocks of the hotel they're servicing.

bartleby

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:29:49 -0500

I, too, like being able to walk to the pick-up spots in Dupont Circle, especially for early morning and late night drop-offs. Moving all the buses to L'Enfant would less convenient for us Red Liners (esp. with having to transfer and with such sparse Metro service in the late evenings/weekends).

monkeyrotica

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:28:29 -0500

This location is worse than Hitler, although I'm not sure how yet. Doesn't it make sense to have a bunch of idling busses in an isolated non-residential area? That way, the fumes are only choking DOE, HUD, and DOT employees. It's win-win! Alright, the location is slightly better than Hitler. Let's say, it's as good as Pol Pot. Split the difference: it's an Idi Amin.

sharonc

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:26:01 -0500

Actually this could work well. Chinatown/Gallery Place traffic has gotten really congested, and these buses really gum up the works. Also the bus stops are very confusing for some of the passengers. L Enfant is easy to get to, and has really wide streets.

dchater

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:25:03 -0500

So, are all those private carriers that bring commuters in from Maryland going to have to use this terminal in as well? If so, I'm all for it.

jtmeyer

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:23:10 -0500

It's not that L'enfant is inherently inconvenient. Removing all other options for boarding/dropoff locations is what's inherently inconvenient. There should be at least three spots in the city where buses can choose to pickup/dropoff.

JustJenny

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:58:44 -0500

Dammit. L'Enfant is not exactly convenient to where anybody lives, as far as I know. Metro Center is at least convenient to where I live. Hey, whatever happened to the virtue of selfishness?

ces12

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:57:37 -0500

@G Lover - (1) how is L'Enfant Plaza a 'confusing' part of the city to get to? You can take several metro and bus lines and the drive is actually pretty simple from northwest - just take 7th street until you get into southwest and viola, you're there. Not too hard. and (2) Cars can broken into at any place in the city, hell, they get broken into in Dupont very frequently. If you take the necessary precautions with leaving your car unattended for several days, you should be in no less 'danger' than leaving it in one of the 'safe neighborhoods'. I think it's funny that everyone says that L'Enfant is inconvenient for people. If you live in Arlington, Southwest, Capitol Hill, Columbia Heights, Mt Pleasant and many other neighborhoods, this spot is actually pretty easy to get to. I have taken the 5A to Dulles Airport several times and have had no problems with it. I like this decision - we definitely dont need these buses taking up lanes in metro center, blocking lanes of traffic because they are sticking out the back and people blocking the streets with their luggage. This is a smart decision that, like all location decisions in this city, convenience some and inconvenience others.

Politburo

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:56:09 -0500

It's legit to have questions/concerns about this, but let's not be ridiculous. L'Enfant is no less confusing than any other part of the city to get to, and street parking is not a right.

cminus

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:54:40 -0500

I don't actually think this is such a terrible idea. The proposed new site is pretty easily accessible, I don't think the buses will be significantly slowed by taking the (slightly) longer but (slightly) less congested southern route along 295, and I've got to admit that Gallery Place has lately become a kind of automotive black hole. As in, "nobody drives there any more, it's too congested" traffic. That said, I wouldn't blame Marylanders like ahark1pd for being upset, if this means the buses are routed away from their established interim stops. What may be good news for Cheverly or Bowie may be bad news for Bethesda or Rockville.

abefroman329

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:53:23 -0500

"Hardly any of the buses stop in Philly anymore." Well, maybe they don't announce that they do beforehand, but the "nonstop" Chinatown bus I took from NYC to DC made stops in Philly and Baltimore.

lp2k

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:51:04 -0500

DC Bureaucrat 1: I’ve noticed that private companies have been successful at providing cheap, relatively convenient travel to and from major population centers on the east coast, isn’t there something we could do about that? DC Bureaucrat 2: Yes! Let’s require a special permit and charge for it. DC Bureaucrat 1: Good idea! That will probably increase the price a bit, but what about the convenience? DC Bureaucrat 2: Well, you know how the different companies pick up in different locations so the consumer can choose the location closest to them or that’s easiest to get to? DC Bureaucrat 1: Yeah… DC Bureaucrat 2: What if we made all the buses leave from the same spot? DC Bureaucrat 1: Brilliant! DC Bureaucrat 2: Well, its noon – time to call it day.

G Lover Park

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:44:45 -0500

I really wish the DC government would just stop doing anything. Just keep the tax money and go fishing or take up golf. No questions asked, but leave us poor bastards to our own devices to deal with the problems we have. Because as far as I can see, the DC government has a kind of reverse Midas touch. Everything it touches turns to $H!T. So, right now you've got individual companies picking people up wherever they damn well please. Want to go to NY, head to Chinatown for one of those companies serving that need there. Are you a gay buff lad looking for gay buff fun? Get to a Results to take Rehobus to Rehoboth for naked, well-oiled shuffleboard and Caipirinhas. Seems pretty easy to mean. And one would think you'd ACTUALLY HEAR about a safety or congestion problem if they ACTUALLY EXISTED. But NOOOOOO! The Stalinist government of DC would be nothing if not for solving problems that don;t exist through heavy-handed, arbitrary and capricious regulations that serve no recognizable governmental interest. Reminds me of the bicycle registration they did to round up all the Rasta bike messengers in the early 90s. So, DC: now that you've got all the people who want to use bus service going to the most confusing part of the city to get to (which also has more crime that other common pickups now): (1) have you studied whether there will be ample parking for those who used to just drive and park on the streets for weekend getaways? (2) How about security--what are you going to do to ensure that anyone who parks here for the day doesn't have their car broken into? I'm sure these are but a few logistical questions that will come up.

RJ

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:41:02 -0500

Ok wait complainers its not has bad as you think. 1. This is right over the L'Enfant Plaza Metro stop, 4 lines, sorry red you have to transfer. And it is not 2 blocks, its about 500ft from the Dst Entrance (same block). 2. Harder to get out of DC... what? You are right off 395 to 295 and you don't have to scamper up NY Ave to get to 295. This should be much faster. 3. Downside it is located under the Plaza. But what does it matter NYers don’t go down to DC, they think you city is Sh!t anyways. But hopefully if will give a shot in the arm to the atrocious underground mall.

kaloramagirl

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:39:57 -0500

I hate this idea. Washington Deluxe has a stop at Dupont which is super convenient for me. I like having those kinds of options. Having to rush to get to SW after work to make a Friday afternoon bus will not be as easy.

nowisthetime

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:39:52 -0500

I like being able to walk to Dupont for DC2NY.. makes my trip a whole lot more pleasant. I can see not allowing them to park right outside Metro Center exit right downtown, but seriously a block or two away, sure, why not? Just get rid of a lane of parking. All those bus lines should be replaced by affordable high speed rail anyway.

spookiness

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:39:18 -0500

I'm not one of those CATO folks, but leave it up to government to screw up something that the private sector was doing just fine. Thats a fine location as a staging area for the tourist trade buses, but for intercity travellers its inconvenient and just adds additional time and hassle to the trip. Personally, I would rather just catch a bus at an end-of-the-line Metro stop, nearest the Beltway or I-95 as possible. Anything that bypasses traffic and gets moving the quickest.

guest number 10

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:38:51 -0500

esingles - it was "practice sessions by four ceremonial marching platoons" and expect more of that every tuesday this summer. so 66 to 110 might be kind of a clusterF

Politburo

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:38:40 -0500

"Buses leaving SW DC means will have to spend more time going through DC traffic, making the trip longer." Not sure if I agree there.. I'm probably biased because I lived in SW but I always felt it was quicker to go out S. Capitol to 295 than to take NY Ave. If there was a connection from 395 to 295 North, that would be a ideal. This does seem to screw people on the red line, though.

ahark1pd

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:37:01 -0500

i wonder how it'll affect stops outside of the city, like the one at my office building in Bethesda.

dcvoterboy

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:31:17 -0500

uhm somegirl, 1 line? l'enfant plaza has four lines - yellow, green, blue, and orange http://wmata.com/metrorail/Stations/station.cfm?station=82

esingles

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:30:12 -0500

Speaking of buses, does anyone know why there were a gazillion tour buses parked along Route 110 between Arlington Cemetery and the Pentagon last night? They were all empty too with no people in sight.

UMan

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:29:01 -0500

This is stupid, the whole point of taking a Chinatown bus is so I can arrive in the middle of the city and spend all the money I saved traveling on food and drink. If we make the New Yorkers arrive in L'enfant what will they do? Go to VA on the Yellow line? After the hike there through dead Southwest? Way to present your best face forward DC...

somegirl

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:27:33 -0500

Ick. Replacing a location walkable from 4 different Metro lines with one served by only 1 is a monumentally bad idea.

Fanciepants

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:25:59 -0500

My initial thought is that this sucks. Not only is Chinatown a more convenient location for me, but I am usually traveling north, like most bus riders. Buses leaving SW DC means will have to spend more time going through DC traffic, making the trip longer. Boo, I say.

ahaak

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:23:35 -0500

This is a stupid idea. It is monumentally inconvenient for anyone who coming in from the north part of the District and who is leaving early in the morning. The virtue of Metro Center/Chinatown pickup locations is that they can be easily accessed from all lines with no transfers. Can't you just make the people get permits for their own corner?

the_heckle

Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:22:28 -0500

...traditional Chinatown buses. Ah the old days, When Big Ben Banneker could just hop a Chinatown bus up to Philly for design consults. You just don't get that kinda service anymore. Hardly any of the buses stop in Philly anymore.