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We've had plenty of discussions here at DCist about city cyclists (Magnificent or menace? Discuss.), but now Maryland is stepping up to slow down two-wheelers along one of the area's most popular biking trails.
According to the Post, officials at the Maryland-National Capital Park and Planning Commission will soon start installing signs limiting cycling speeds to 15 mph along a 5.5-mile stretch of the Capital Crescent trail from Bethesda to the District line. They say speedy cyclists along the popular stretch connecting Georgetown to downtown Bethesda have provoked a number of complaints from joggers and walkers who share the path. Violators of the speed limit would face a $50 fine.
Predictably, cyclists aren't happy. Nor should they be. The decision, which was apparently made without much input from cyclists or cycling advocacy organizations, targets cyclists while ignoring other hazards that exist on the path. Joggers and walkers wearing headphones can often be oblivious to the loud warnings of passing cyclists, their speed notwithstanding. Moreover, the 15 mph speed limit ignores the obvious fact that the trail, which serves as a key artery for bike commuters, slants downwards from Maryland into the District. Anyone who rides it, professional-to-be or otherwise, could tell you that hitting 15 mph from Bethesda down doesn't take much. Finally, the idea of enforcing the speed limit is almost laughable. Short of bike cops riding up and down the trail at the limit and ticketing those who pass them, there simply aren't many nooks or crannies where they could set up a speed trap. And even if they could, it would well turn into the single most ridiculous posting for any law enforcement official in the region.
Multi-use paths like the Capital Crescent trail don't require heavy-handed policing. Walkers, joggers and cyclists alike should be courteous towards each other. We'd be willing to guess that most already are, and that the complaints that led to this decision were limited to a few individuals.
What do you think? Did Maryland go too far, or are cyclists just getting what they deserve?
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And Christians should be forgiving, but what's the likelihood of that ever happening? Give it up, Smithers.
My favorite are the stay-at-home moms who walk four-abreast and take up the whole honking path. Up there with the ones where ride up behind them and say "Passing on the left" and they GET INTO THE LEFT LANE.
Will the added police presence turn out to be a Chips situation, with multi-bike pile ups? Or more like the Dukes of Hazard, with robin hood love-of-life cyclists jumping the canal to evade the cops?
I'm thinking more of a TJ Hooker thing, with William Shatner about to give some "lousy punks" a beatdown, but Adrian Zmed has to hold him back.
I doubt a speed limit will work. But walking on the bike trails with my dog is a fricking hazzard. There are some cyclists that think they are competing for the land speed record (others are competing for the record on the tightest Spandex pants). Common sense should be used by all. Violators will be tarred, feathered and given atomic wedgies.
has anyone thought to expand the capacity of the trail to meet the needs of multiple user groups?
haha i know, i crack myself up sometimes
@ClevelandRocks
It will actually be more of a Pacific Blue situation, with Mario Lopez reprising his role as Officer Bobby Cruz...east coast style
I would pretty much guarantee (without knowing anything about this story beyond what's written here) that the complaints came from the residents of Bethesda that live right off the trail, and who like to use it for walking dogs, baby strollers, etc. I remember riding down from the car dealership, and it takes a mile or so before you clear all of the local riff raff clogging up the lanes before you get free and clear to really start riding. I suspect the problem lies with different understandings of the purpose of the trail, especially in sections with easy access to side streets/backyards.
Sounds like a great way for us to find out how fast we're actually going out there.
My favorites are the snotty moms with the multiple birth strollers that are wider than one lane. I'm glad your fertility drugs worked, lady, but that doesn't mean you get to block me with your spawn.
The problem with bike cops is that it's just not as sexy to slide across the front fender to enter from the Other side of the bike... Not to mention potentially requiring surgery.
And although I understand the "plight" of the bikers in this situation... Sorry Lance Armstrong, Jr but the county isn't required to keep the bike path as your personal training ground. But the onus on safety does fall on those traveling faster. SO, cars look out for bikes, bikes looke out for peds, and I dunno, peds try not to step on earthworms, but you get the point? Just cuz your future target is wearing headphones doesn't keep you from being wrong for plowing into them. Them's the brakes.
Clearly, they need to widen the trail. Four lanes in each direction!
Does anyone know what type of tickets will be issued? I heard a while ago that the tickets could end up showing on your DMV report (speeding). What happens if you are on a bike but are not carrying your driver's license or do not have one? Will they issue you a ticket anyway? Arrest you for not having ID?
An idea may be to create dual trails, where feasable. Parts of the W&OD trail between Falls Church and Ashburn have dual sections. One is the former rail line and one is a former maintenance right-of-way road for the RR and electric company. One trail is straight and encourages fast cycling while the other has more curves and has more shade.
Another option is for bikers to buy a really loud horn or bike-mounted P.A. system, a la the red bike in Pee Wee's Big Adventure. Make the four-abreast 'ladies who power-walk' wear forhead-mounted rearview mirrors. Everyone happy?
So let me get this straight: they're enacting a horrible restriction that they won't be able to enforce? Who cares.
It seems to me that the point of this effort is to get people thinking a bit more about their effect on other people.
We all know that hard core bikers are among the most annoying sportsmen there are. At least your average Cigar-Smoking-Sevior-Vice-President-Yukon-Denali-Driving Golfer smiles every once in a while. I understand there's this intense fetish at the nexus of spandex and powder-coated metal. But do you really need to look so damn sour about it all the time?
All I can say is that you don't see us runners throwing around attitudes like that. And we're destroying our knees.
I'm one of the Lycranauts zooming by your fat ass on my bike while you're smoking a cigarette and watching your dog make a nice stanky turd pyramid in the middle of the trail that you no intention of cleaning up.
I'm one of the people in the silly shirts with the pockets in the back and shoes that make me walk funny when I clip out of the bike, yelling at you to get out of the way when you're at a dead stop in the middle of the trail talking on your cell phone.
I'm the jerk in the padded spandex pants who nearly kills you while you're making out with your girlfriend/boyfriend in the middle of the bridge because it's just oh, so romantic.
If you look carefully, every mile or so, rules are posted for acceptable behavior on the trail. Be courteous. Keep right, pass left. Give audible warning. Any cyclist worth a damn does these things with gusto. Why don't you?
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that the silly-looking cyclist zooming by you trying to get a workout in may not be the jerk here. Maybe it's you.
Also, most bikes don't come with speedometers. How am I supposed to tell what speed I'm going at short of glancing at my watch (if I'm wearing one, and thus distracting myself from the road) at every mile marker?
I don't know what padded spandex pants look like. Please post a picture of you wearing one. Thank you.
And I snicker at you. Where's Rambo and his clothes line when you need him?
people with ipods walking on the trail should just be run over. period.
if you want to go out in nature and then cocoon yourself off from the rest of the world, your removal from the gene pool strikes me as cosmic retribution for your stupidity. you can't hear the biker warning you to get out of the middle of the trail? oh, i'm sorry, if only there was something we could do about that. i know! punish the bikers!
caveat emptor, or something similar to that, says i.
DC should just make all bikers register their bikes and wear license plates on their seats. Then they just need to install speed cameras in child bike trailers by the side of the path. Also, walkers and joggers should be required to wear a unique identifier bumpersticker on their retardedly fat asses. Nothing wrong here that an expensive and pointless bureaucracy can't prolong. I'm looking at you, DCRA!
And widening the bike path will never work. You can't build your way out of bike gridlock! These people should just get off their bikes and get off their feet and take mass transit.
Well speedometers are pretty reasonably priced, and quite useful, also once you have access to one you get pretty good at judging your speed in general.
That being said, why don't they set up a sort of rush our system on the bike trail in the area, where between 645 and 915 in the morning its strictly enforced bicycles only with no speed limit, and in the afternoon between 4:45 and 7:15 its the same deal. The rest of the time its open to everyone and there is an enforced 20 mph speed limit. That way you don't need to worry about the idiot runners with their ipods when you are trying to get to work, and they know that when they are actually allowed to share the BIKE trail with you they can expect you to be on your best behavior.
I've biked the trail before in a totally non wannabe professional loser, er, I mean, biker way - following the rules; keep right, pass left, announce your intentions blah blah blah - and I still get run off the trail by "lycranauts." I'm not out to set a land speed record I just want to enjoy the outdoors and ride my bike. I pull far to the right when someone comes behind me and announces themselves but you know what, some of them don't even make a peep. They come barreling up behind, barely pull around you, and keep on going acting like they own the trail. Usually they're plugged into their iPod (funny how they complain when joggers do that and they do the same thing...) Just a little fyi to those who do that: it can scare the hell out of people especially when they're not expecting it.
That being said everyone should follow the rules of the trail. Stoller pushing mommies, weaving little kids freshly off training wheels, and dog walking slow pokes need to pay attention too.
Instead of tickets, why don't they just put up one of those "Your Speed: ___ mph" signs they put up around school zones and stuff? I mean, besides the reason that everyone would just speed up to see how fast they can go?
Worlds Craziest Bike Chases.
Tonight on Fox.
Put the bikers back on the streets where they can be the prey instead of the predators.
I don't have any kids yet, but when I do have kids I'm going to stroll them up and down that trail with a big bumper sticker stuck to the stroller that says "SHARE THE ROAD"!!!!!!
Don't like it, do you bikers?
Maybe now you'll understand how the drivers feel...but I doubt it because this isn't about drivers, cyclists or pedestrians. It's about ignorant, self-absorbed pricks and sadly such pricks inhabit all three categories.
I never cease to be amazed and the stupidity of the herd of people on these trails... Treat it like a road, people.
You shouldn't park your fat ass in the middle of the expressway to figure for some inanane conversation on your cell phone that, btw, no one else wants to hear.
You shoudn't take two lanes so no one can get by you.
If you'r slower, stick to the f*cking right. If you have to stop, even better--get off the damn road.
And you shouldn't be wearing an iPod so loud that you have no clue what the hell is going on around you!
And for people graced with great legs and lycra, you're not supposed fly around traffic like that a-hole we all hate in the ridiculously overpriced sports car. (One great case of road rash should cure those tendencies.)
(And I've driven the BW Parkway--I know these rules don't apply)
Sounds like some Lycranauts need to spend some quality spoke time with Sweet Lady Broomstick.
I totally agree with Warshington, if they are going to attempt enforcement of a speed limit on a bike path, it should be exempt during rush hours while bikers are speeding on their way to work.
For dcist's enjoyment, I link you to the angriest bike-commuter-&-blogger-in-DC's post last month.
And remember, if you encounter a biker in the road, fer pete's sake, give him/her at least 3 feet of clearance! It's the law.
poor poor pooooooor, Timmy Tuckeeeeer
California has speed limits on many of its bike trails. I know people who have been busted on their way to work for exceeding the 15 mph limit.
There's no reason why the District or Montgomery County couldn't set up bicycle speed traps to assist the local budgetary pressures.
When have you ever been on a bike trail that prohibits pedestrians?
Don't be a moron, they are slower than you and possibly not as smart (debatable), if you are biking through an area with a lot of foot traffic use common sense and slow down.
New rule: Fine $50 for a lack of common sense.
Think of the profits.
I would like to see the day a cop can catch my Madone!
Cyclists are always unhappy about something. It's like they expect this place to be some sort of bicycle utopia, where there are no pedestrians or motorists to get in their way. There is such a place. It's called China. Go now.
How about a bicycle dystopia, a sort of Mad Max world where everyone is an apoco-mutant and rides bikes in large roaming hordes?
That would be sweet. Redo Mad Max with bicycles. Lance Armstrong to play the title character. Hinault can come back as the Toe Cutter.
@IMGoph: "...people with ipods walking on the trail should just be run over. period."
...and what say you about the ever increasing number of cyclists wearing them. Runners and walkers I can tolerate, cyclists with headphones need to shot...cut right to the chase and skip the running over bit.
...what needs to be done is more signs for proper etiquette and rules.
...what needs to be done is more signs for proper etiquette and rules.
You're assuming that people on the Capitol Crescent Trail (a) can read and (b) actually give a fat rat's fart about etiquette. These are the same people who, when their ride is over, will climb into their Escalades and give the finger to grandmas, passing ambulances, and funeral processions. And even if they don't have a car, they will stop at Starbucks for a bathroom break and pee on the rim out of spite.
So this 15MPH speed limit only affects the Maryland portion of the trail? So once you're in DC, you're free to ride like you've got a roman candle up your butt, right?
Are you freakin' kidding me? This is about the dumbest thing I've heard since the last time W. gave a speech.
Sure, there are a lot of stupid cyclists out there. They piss me off, too (I've been a bicycle commuter for 15+ years). And there are a LOT of stupid walkers, joggers, rollerbladers, drivers, people, dogs, etc.
But that's not the point. The point is that cyclists are being singled out. If a speed limit is going to be imposed on cyclists, then they damn well better start ticketing people who: don't stay to the right, take up more than a lane, don't give audible warning when passing, or violate any of the other rules of the trail. I don't care if that person is walking, pushing a double-wide stroller, or riding a bike (lycra-clad or not).
I'm reading a lot of finger-pointing in people's comments, but let's face it. There's enough rudeness and inconsiderate behavior to go around. If people played nice and followed the rules, this wouldn't be an issue.
It seems the universal problem is people who cannot seem to grasp the concept of slow traffic to the right, fast traffic to the left.
Whether it's on a highway, a bike path, or an escalator - is it really so difficult?
At least part of this whole mess can be attributed to the fact that most Bethesda residents don't like to share.
The new speed limit signs aren't so much a way to make bikers slow down as they are a way for the passive-aggressive, snotty Bethesdaites who have access to town government to say "we don't like you, go away." I'm surprised they're not setting up toll booths.
Clearly, the Park and Planning Commission needs to install some proven "traffic calming" measures. They should make the entire Crescent Trail one long rumble strip or, barring that, install railroad ties at three-foot intervals. Also, multilingual signs in Spanish, Esperanto, and semaphor should warn bikers that exceeding the 15mph limit endangers themselves and others and that llamas are dangerous. So if you see one where people are swimming, you shout...
"Cuidado, cuidado, cuidado, cuidado las llamas!"
It seems the universal problem is people who cannot seem to grasp the concept of slow traffic to the right, fast traffic to the left.
Oh, they grasp it all right. Like a limp pecker. And like a limp pecker, they just don't care.
If they were serious about getting people to slow down, they'd install permanent car accidents by the side of the path at regular intervals. Or hire some of those out-of-work stripper meter maids in booty shorts to bend over every 100 yards. Give 'em a REASON to slow down.
Honestly, cyclists/bikers whatever you call them are the pits. I really think this 15 mph speed limit is a start. Share the road is right.
I run three times a week and regularly encounter some bozo behavior from a biker -- especially when it comes to not dismounting on narrow bridges (like the one before the tunnel at the zoo or under memorial bridge) or bombing down steep hills in packs of four on the custis trail. What gives with the entitlement there??
And then on the road I consistently see cyclists biking down the wrong way of a one way street. This is fantastic when I'm driving down 16th street and take a right on R only to have a stupid biker appear out of nowhere going directly into me the wrong way on R. I kid you not this happened to me for the umpteenth time the other day and the guy was on his cell phone. Or maybe it's the cyclists who regularly bike down Q street going the wrong way and on the opposite side of the street as the bike lane. How hard is it to go two blocks up to R street and GO THE RIGHT WAY DOWN THE STREET? My favorite has to be the biker who I encountered going the wrong way down Corcoran in the middle of the street balancing a safeway bag on each handlebar. That was a treat.
And forget stopping at stop signs or red lights or yielding to pedestrians in cross walks.
Oh and at night it gets worse. There was the time i was walking down Calvert Street around 10pm when a biker took a left and HIT ME while i was in the cross walk knocking me off my feet and then yelled at me for being there and kept biking. Apparently I was supposed to yield to him even though it was pitch black, he didn't signal left, and had no headlight, oh, and I had the right of way as a pedestrian.
WHICH (rant almost over) brings me to my next issue. What in god's name are cyclists doing biking at night without a headlight?? Bikers, I seriously cannot see you without a headlight - whether I'm on foot or in a car. I may be able to see your red reflectors from the side or back but that doesn't help when I'm trying to take a right and you're in the bike lane to my right WITHOUT A FRICKING HEADLIGHT! Or when I'm crossing the street and you come out of nowhere on a dark street wearing all black and I'm supposed to have a bat sense enough to see you 20 feet down the road.
Rant over. I know some cyclists do the right thing and obey all traffic rules but unfortunately I don't think the rank and file do. Get organized, clean up your act, follow the traffic laws, and maybe I'll have some sympathy for you.
@ pnut: That was impressive.
So can we take up a collection here to pay for airfare to Beijing for all of these douchebag cyclists?
wow... let's play with that a little...
Honestly, runners/walkers whatever you call them are the pits...
I regularly encounter some bozo behavior from a walker/runner-- especially when it comes to not getting out of the road when stopping for a conversation or walking side by side in packs of four or five... What gives with the entitlement there??
And then on the road I consistently see walkers walking in the middle of the street. This is fantastic when I'm driving down 16th street and take a right on R only to have a stupid runner appear out of nowhere going directly into me the wrong way. I kid you not this happened to me for the umpteenth time the other day and the guy was on his cell phone. Or maybe it's the cyclists who regularly walk out in street. How hard is it to go 10 feet up and USE THE CROSSWALK?
I know some runners/walkers do the right thing and obey all traffic rules but unfortunately I don't think the rank and file do. Get organized, clean up your act, follow the traffic laws, and maybe I'll have some sympathy for you.
HCE: china is adding more cars per day to their streets than any other country in the world. they aren't the biking utopia that they might have been in the 80s. time to get that image out of your head.
Rukasu:wholeheartedly agreed on the bikers with ipods, etc. run them over too. anyone operating anything on a trail that keeps them from paying attention to said trail is d.u.m.b. stupid in my book.
Cleveland Rocks, did you see the picture from the Torontoist? The future is now!
amen, ishmael. pnut needs to take his/her/its meds. you can't blame all drivers/walkers/bikers for the acts of 2 or 3 people you've had shitty interactions with.
cabbies, on the other hand...you can blame them collectively for all the ills in the world. cabbies are inherently bad.
And wow, pnut, that was impressive. Way to vent that stuff off. But I hear ya loud and clear.
The next extension of the consideration discussion is: why run down those in front of you? Brake like a big boy and get over it.
As a regular biker, who rides this trail and has ridden many others in other areas, I think the answer is simple: follow the rules of the road. When people stay to the right of the path it's easier to get around them and far less dangerous for everyone involved. Too many walkers wander down the left side of the trail (or all of the trail) and create a hazard by doing so.
to Pnut- you seem to have encountered a lot of stupidity. Maybe you should look at the common denominator-- YOU!
Great, let's all agree we hate each other, and try to cause as many unnecessary injuries and accidents to bikers and pedestrians alike. Here's to ignoring the right of way. But you do that anyway, don't you?
As a cyclist who has lights (front and back), stops at traffic lights, rides with traffic (not against it), etc., I fully appreciate that drivers get frustrated with those cyclists who don't obey the traffic laws. So do I, and I say something to them when I can (alas, too often they are running a red light and I don't get a chance to catch up).
Drivers, however, should not be getting all uppity. Every day I see someone speeding through a red light, rolling through a stop sign, not stopping for pedestrians in the crosswalk, talking on their cell phone, and - one of my personal pet peeves - ignoring the no turn on red sign (hey - it's there for a reason). [As an aside: left on red is not legal in DC. Please stop doing it.]
I hate to remind my fellow drivers of this, but driving is a privilege, not a right. And you are in a two ton death machine that could squash me like a bug. Those of you who drive in Rock Creek Park? The speed limit is a MAXIMUM, not a minimum. If you don't like sharing the Beach Drive with bicyclists, find another road.
One request for pedestrians: Please do yourself a favor and LOOK BOTH WAYS before stepping into the street.
Getting back to the original topic, I avoid Capital Crescent like the plague because it's too congested and too many people don't play nice. I'll take my chances on the road.
From the Post article:
I think it's because if bikes are going faster than pedestrians on sidewalks, they're "wrong". We're all supposed to meander on by like Sunday in the Park with George. faster traffic goes on streets. Over 15MPH you get enough speed up to hurt somebody, so you gain more restriction/duties.
This is from the Street Smart Training Workshop: A crucial point is that drivers have a near absolute duty to avoid running down persons in the street, regardless of whether they are there legally or not. The uniform vehicle code, used as a model in most states, requires drivers to look out for and avoid striking pedestrians. We should also remember the common law rule that a person is expected to see what is there to be seen!
I've had experience as a runner, walker and cyclist and the common denominator is entitlement.
I've had the experience of calling out "on your left" to a pack of women (and as a woman, I always wonder why women insist on walking three/four/five abreast?) to have them adamantly refuse to move over -- it's like someone will lose status if they step behind the rest of their group.
I've had a the cyclists humming along at 30 mph on the trail at Rock Creek Park with nary a warning, whizzing within inches of my legs.
If everyone showed courtesy and respect for everyone else, then we wouldn't run into these issues.
I like the Bethesda Trolley Trail myself. Its less crowded and you see more bunnies around it. There's no better way to start your day than with a baby bunny sighting - squee!
Though imposing a fine from execeding this speed limit is kinda of ridiculous and impractical, cyclists who wish to ride at speeds above 20mph shouldn't be on the trail, they should be on road. Being a avid cyclist, I think it's better for a riding to ride as fast as he wants on the streets and only endanger his own life rather than ride on the trail and endanger his as well as others using it.
I'm with fixedgearrider: There's absolutely *no* reason that cyclists should be going over 20 mph an hour! What's that? You say the new speed limit is 15 mph..?
Um...there's no reason cyclists should be going over 15 mph! Aw, hell, maybe they should just make 'em dismount and walk the bikes between Bethesda and the DC line.
Seriously, though. I think it's time cyclists just abandoned these multiuse paths en masse, and started to make every day Critical Mass Day. Get a group of fellow commuters together, and ride two abreast down Connecticut taking the right-most lane. It's legal, it's faster, and you don't endanger any pedestrians.
lou said:
"I've had the experience of calling out "on your left" to a pack of women (and as a woman, I always wonder why women insist on walking three/four/five abreast?) to have them adamantly refuse to move over -- it's like someone will lose status if they step behind the rest of their group."
That's what Sex And The City did: create entire groups of women who can only walk four or five abreast!
Seriously, I'm an avid cyclist and I avoid MUPs whenever possible. The CCT, W&OD, Mt. Vernon and other trails that have a lot of truly multi-use populations are no place for any cyclist going over 15 mph. Perhaps the AM/PM "commuter express" rules would be good, but I can't see that flying in the money-rich, child-laden Bethesda neighborhoods where the speed signs (and rumble strips - another danger, altogether, not only for cyclists but for inline skaters) are being introduced.
But if you're an avid cycling commuter and plan on an average speed over 15 mph, take to the streets. You'll save a lot of time and a lot of frustration.
I feel pnut's pain - anybody who's subject to a hit and run, whether it's a car or a bike, has got to be freaked out, especially after the person who hits you stops to yell at you. In addition to being terrifying, there's not much you can do about it - except start carrying a golf umbrella or a cane... Yeah, the people who walk 4-abreast or use strollers are annoying, but they're not actively hurting anyone.
I trust myself to avoid hitting a gaggle of Ladies Who Powerwalk more than I trust the idiot drivers of D.C. to stay out of the bike lane -- where we're lucky enough to have one.
I'm a smiling cycling, runner, and walker on this and other fine trails around the city. Not sure precisely what problem Maryland is trying to solve -- because this move by MD Parks & Rec is not solving a problem -- but rollerbladers definitely need to be reined in also, if not moreso than cyclists. Just my opinion. That having been said, cyclists are ONE of the principle constituencies used to find funding support for the construction of trails. As for a recent post, it is those annoying people who make a dead stop at the bottom of escalators who really aren't actively hurting anyone but could injure dozens with their inability to comprehend the importance of thoroughfare courtesy. By way of reading the posts on this, I see that Maryland has not promoted attentiveness or sharing, but has definitely increased divisiveness and hostility.
"Cyclists are always unhappy about something. It's like they expect this place to be some sort of bicycle utopia..."
Actually, most cyclists I know are pretty happy. This is one of the best regions in north america for cycling.
But the best thing about riding on city streets, is that, if someone passes close enough to brush you with their mirror, throws something at you, or what have you, they're almost always stopped by traffic no more than one or two blocks away.
While we're talking about pet peeves, here's a new one: joggers running facing traffic on the wrong side of the road. This is such an egregious example of a self-absorbed fsckwit transferring risk to other road users I don't even know where to start. Don't know which d!pshit jogger publication first proposed this behavior, but it's editors should be tarred and feathered.
Hey bikers !!!!!! The law says 2 or more bikers together must ride SINGLE FILE. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I HAD TO DEAL WITH BIKERS THAT USE THE CC TRAIL OR BEACH DR IN ROCK CREEK PARK RIDING 2-3 ABREAST !!! FOLLOW THE LAW YOU ARROGANT ASSES - SINGLE FILE BIKING !!!!!
There is no question that the problems caused to each other by pedestrians, runners, and cyclists pales in comparison to the looming threat of the Segway. Apart from the fact that these insidious machines look completely absurd, they are frequently driven in packs by midwestern tourists who have never been in a vehicle less than 32 feet long, much less operated a gyroscopic lazy machine on a sidewalk. I have nearly been killed by these things while actively trying to get out of their way on more than one occasion.
Hey LooLoo. Actually, DC law says that bikers my ride two abreast. You may now smell my vapors as I and my lycra-clad partner ride slowly in front of you down Beach Drive. Mazel Tov!
DC's bicycle speed limit is a mere 10 mph:
The real good news, but not related to Maryland bike speeds, is that the DC bike registration requirements have been discontinued!
jamie, in all this vitriol, i forgot about the plague of the segway. seque? however its spelled. its like they're immovable not-so-jolly green giants coming right at you. i run for cover when i see one coming - which makes me feel completely ridiculous being fearful of fanny-packed marauders.
i had a near-miss with a police segwayer/sequer this morning.
"and rumble strips - another danger, altogether, not only for cyclists but for inline skaters"
Blame the ADA for that. To protect blind people, there have to be those bumpy tiles before ever intersection.
"joggers running facing traffic on the wrong side of the road."
I normally run on the sidewalk, but to the extent I'm ever running on a sidewalk-less road, I've always been told that it's safer to walk or run facing traffic. (besides, isn't it redundant to say they're running facing traffic on the wrong side of the street? Unless of course they're running backwards, I guess).
@ibc For the runner, running in the road facing traffic is safer because they can see what's coming and, if need be, get out of the way. On a trail, on the other hand, they should be running on the right, with traffic.
@nikolas shiller - *buzz* Wrong answer. That only applies to "personal mobility devices," which are not bicycles. See 1201.8 - "No person shall operate a bicycle at a speed which is in excess of any posted limit or at a speed which is greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions then existing." The regs speak of "bicycles or personal mobility devices" which means they're not the same thing. I'd bet they were referring to segues there, and perhaps also motorized wheelchairs.
Now that I think about it, I've been hit or nearly hit by cyclists, cars, *and* fellow pedestrians, so I have decided that everybody is a jerk, except for me.
"to the extent I'm ever running on a sidewalk-less road, I've always been told that it's safer to walk or run facing traffic"
Oh, I know *why* joggers do it. It's for the same reason drunk guys on 10-speeds wearing flip-flops do it. They're afraid of getting run down from behind.
There's not really any evidence that it's safer for the jogger. It is demonstrably *less* safe for the cyclist who you're either going to force into traffic, or into the door zone.
It's the exact equivalent of cyclists who ride on sidewalks--you're magnifying a marginal personal risk and transferring it to others.
"It is demonstrably *less* safe for the cyclist who you're either going to force into traffic, or into the door zone."
How many streets have street parking but no sidewalk? It doesn't seem like it would be lot to me.
At least when you're approaching a runner from the front you can make eye contact with them and be sure they see you. When you're trying to over take them from behind, you don't have that assurance.
But like I said, it's preferrable for runners to stick to the sidewalk. And places that don't have sidewalks are normally quiet enough streets to enable a safe pass (or they're so busy that it's probably too dangerous to be running or biking on them anyway).
And besides, if a biker is so worried about his safety, he's got a pair of brakes! Just stop if the situation becomes dangerous.
There's a difference between someone putting you in danger, and someone putting you in inconvenience.
Moose, you are correct. I confused the general term of "personal mobility device" to include bicycles, which, in all respects, a bicycle is a personal mobility device, but not according to the DMV. I think you are also right about segways and wheelchairs. So essentially, a bicyclist can go the same speed posted for cars, but if a cop thinks they are going too fast or putting people in danger, they can ticket the bicyclist. Do many bicyclists go 15/20/25/30 mph on Capital Crescent trail?
@ibc Relative to traffic, a runner is standing still, and it doesn't really matter which side of the road he's on. If a runner faces traffic, he can make eye contact with approaching drivers, and even step out of the way of an errant vehicle.
Two feet are a lot more maneuverable than a bike - one hop and you can be off the road, or even over a guardrail. Remember too that a runner's closing speed is negligible.
I lived in a rural part of the country for a while, in a place where you could run/walk on the shoulder of the road or . . . well, there was nowhere else. Walkers, runners, and drivers all understood this. I ran a few thousand miles on narrow shoulders, always facing traffic. I got out of trouble a few times because I could see the car coming.
Nowadays, I ride to work every day, and I ride in traffic. Most of the time I'm going as fast as the cars. Riding by the side of the road is an invitation for getting doored. I also observe traffic controls - I'll take what the law entitles me to and not one inch more.
Of course, once in a while I'll nearly collide with some fregwit who's meandering the wrong way down the street with no lights. And the closest I come to getting T-boned is by other bikers who are running red lights. I've never hated bicyclists so much as I do, now that I'm on a bike myself.
Well - that was a little doom and gloomy. Correct that last sentence: I've never realized exactly how thoughtless most cyclists are. I'm sure that I'd like them if I met them in person, instead of having to practice fancy instant-turn maneuvers in order to avoid hitting them!
"The closest I come to getting T-boned is by other bikers who are running red lights. I've never hated bicyclists so much as I do, now that I'm on a bike myself."
That seems strange to me. I'm out there almost every day, and I can't really remember the last time I had a near miss with another cyclist.
That (of course) excludes riding on something like the CCT. Where you have fat middle aged folks on the bike for the first time in two decades, chatting like old friends and swerving into the oncoming lane like it's the most natural thing in the world. Terrifying.
"Do many bicyclists go 15/20/25/30 mph on Capital Crescent trail?"
20? Yes.
25? Not many.
30? Statistically none.
"'It is demonstrably *less* safe for the cyclist who you're either going to force into traffic, or into the door zone.'
How many streets have street parking but no sidewalk? It doesn't seem like it would be lot to me."
For some reason, you see a *lot* of joggers running in the road--in the door zone. I'm guessing because the asphalt's softer than the brick[?]. A good half of those are running against traffic. So it's not just about a lack of sidewalks.
Well I agree that for their own safety, runners ought to stick to sidewalks when possible (however, I sometimes have to run out into the street for a little bit to get around people, but that's normally on quiet residential streets).
But regardless, if a runner is on the road, whether he is running with or against traffic, aren't you as a biker still going to be stuck deciding between going around on the inside or outside? Wouldn't it be better to make eye contact with the runner before you decide?
I do have issues with people biking dangerously (such that it puts all of traffic in danger), but given that for the most part, if a biker makes a bad decision, (s)he bites it and if a driver makes a bad decision the biker also bites it, I'd say it's all on the side of the biker to make the silly decision...
Running a red light through an empty intersection may not be safe, but it seems like the bigger issue is that drivers are pissed that a biker might make it to work faster than the driver him/herself. So...stop worrying about what everyone else is doing, just choose your mode of transportation, and be happy about it.
I wish there were simply a way to keep people from acting like idiots.
Having a uniform speed limit for the whole trail ignores the type and number of various users and will do NOTHING to address the friction that exists between various user groups in high-use areas. As such, even the 15MPH speed limit is probably too high for areas near Bethesda Ave., and it's really hard to have a one-size-fits all solution that is enforceable and that will actually keep people from crashing into one another there--other than BEING CAREFUL!!! A reasonable proposal would be to actually look at those areas that have high multi-user traffic at certain times and then enforce low speed limits there at those times and combine it with other restrictions, like making walkers/joggers walk in a line, keep to the right, and nobody can wear i-pods, etc.
The flip side of the coin is that there are some wide open areas (south of River Road to the tunnel and then to the DC line) where you rarely encounter runners/walkers and even when you do, you can see them while riding a bike and take appropriate, safe measures. Of course, the irony will be that such areas will be the ONLY place where it will be feasible to actually catch someone exceeding the 15 mph speed limit and this will become a speed trap, even though there's no point in enforcing a speed limit in such areas.
Last I checked, CCT AND Beach Drive in Rock Creek Park both extended into Maryland. SINGLE-FILE BIKING ALONG THE ROAD/THOROUGHFARE STILL APPLIES HERE. PLEASE DO NOT BIKE 2-3 ABREAST, PLEASE STICK TO SINGLE-FILE BIKING, PER THE LAW !!!
"Aren't you as a biker still going to be stuck deciding between going around on the inside or outside?"
Thanks for helping me clarify my point. The crux of the problem is this: when I'm overtaking you from the rear, there's a clearly established protocol: I pass you on the left. If you're on the wrong side of the road, all bets are off.
I'm sure everyone's familiar with that awkward tango you do where you're walking and you approach someone walking towards you. You step left, just as they step left. Then you step right just as they step right. Then you repeat until you both kind of sheepishly laugh and figure it out.
When your combined relative velocity is 25-30 mph, this can be a bit more than awkward, eye-contact or no. So usually I make eye-contact, but also make it pretty clear by my expression and body language that I'm holding my line, and it's on the jogger to avoid me. I realize that seems kind of anti-social in the moment, but I honestly can't think of a safer way to handle the situation. I guess other than coming to a complete stop.
LooLoo:
While we're quoting MD law, I'll give you this:
21-1205 Riding on roadways or on highway.
(a)
Riding to right side of roadway. – Each person operating a bicycle or a motor scooter at a speed less than the speed traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing on a roadway shall ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable and safe, except when:
(1)
Making or attempting to make a left turn;
(2)
Operating on a one-way street;
(3)
Passing a stopped or slower moving vehicle;
(4)
Avoiding pedestrians or road hazards;
(5)
The right lane is a right turn lane; or
(6)
Operating in a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle or motor scooter and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.
(b)
Riding two abreast. – Each person operating a bicycle or motor scooter on a roadway may ride two abreast only if the flow of traffic is unimpeded.
Pay special attention to section (6). Since for the entirety of Beach Drive, the travel lane is "too narrow for a bicycle or motor scooter and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane" cyclists have every right to sit dead center of the travel lane. This behavior is *much* safer for the cyclist, since it forces passing cars to actually give them more than a few inches clearence.
Now since the road in question already falls under section 6 above, it's really irrelevant whether there are one or two or three cyclists riding abreast, as long as they stay in the lane.
If I might be permitted a few of those CAPS you're hoarding: When a cyclist is out there hugging the shoulder line, THEY ARE DOING YOU A FAVOR. There is no legal requirement for them to do this. They're within the law to take the entire lane, and it's in their best interests to do so. They're trading away a bit of their own safety so that you might be able to pass them a little more conveniently.
Now doesn't that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside? One other thing: Won't you please join in helping conserve exclamation marks? There's a war on, don't you know?
ibc,
Sorry, but ever since the first talk in elementary classroom about pedestrian safety, cops have always advised that joggers/walkers/etc who are forced on the road should *face* traffic. If you can make eye contact, you're safer because you can see the traffic coming and as someone pointed out, dodge a dangerous driver. Maybe you dislike that rule as a cyclist, but sorry, if I'm in a rural area as a jogger, I'm going to prefer my personal safety over your pet peeves. Besides, wouldn't you prefer a jogger who sees you coming and moves out of the way?
Now if you're talking trails, that's a whole 'nother story.
lou,
No question where peds are forced onto the roadway. I'll go a step further and say if the joggers running in the street would step out of the bike lane while passing, it wouldn't be an issue.
Anyway, I certainly hope that not everyone would cater to my pet peeves. Everyone needs something to get exercised about; please don't take this away from me.
NIGHTRIDER!!!!!!!!
NIGHTRIDER!!!!!!!!
I don't ride on the CT anymore because it has too much mixed use. I can't get head of steam up on the weekends unless I go really early. Plus, I find that after a few rides, it is way too short for any kind of substantial workout.
I've ridden with lots of people who try to zip between packs of walkers instead of waiting for an opening. I get it. It's a pretty trail. you want to go fast. But you still have to yield to everyone else on the trail. That's the way it is. The walker is the person the runners and bikers and rollerbladers have to yield to. I hear you, they walk 6 abreast and look clueless when they realize that someone else wants to use the trail. Nonetheless, we have to yield to them.
If you really want a good fast open ride, I suggest trying the Custis Trail. It's much longer, has more room and has less traffic. It's a more appropriate trail for fast aggressive riding.
Otherwise, you might as well throw away all social conventions, adopt an Australian accent and ramble around stealing everyone's gasoline.
("Nightrider" is a Mad Max ref for those of you who don't remember the movie)
It's real simple. If you're a serious cyclist you shouldn't be riding/training hell-for-lycra on the CCT. Doesn't matter who you are or what time of day it is. The speed limit is 15 MPH and if that's not enough of a training ride for you too damn bad. Yes, there are folks pushing double wide strollers with iPods on not paying attention. Yes, there are plenty of yentas having WAY TOO LOUD conversations on the CCT early in the morning and not paying attention to where they're going. Yes there are people walking dogs on extend-o-leads (or no leash)who don't clean up after their little crap-factories. Yes, the world is biased against you and hates bikes, yadda yadda yadda. Boo frikkin hoo. If there is an accident, chances are better than 75% that it's gonna be your fault. Who is the judge/jury going to believe - "Lance Lycranuts" who was admittedly exceeding the speed limit, or the 24 year old jogger you hit and who now walks with a limp and has had to have reconstructive surgery on her face? If you slow the hell down, chances are the accident may not happen or at the very least you won't kill or seriously injure someone. You whine on and on about how cars don't show you common courtesy, yet many of you refuse to extend the same courtesy to pedestrians. Slow down and it'll be easier for everyone. Why is that such a hard thing to live with? Is a couple of dead-flat miles at 25 mph on the way to work any kind of a training ride anyway?
Hey rex9802, I assume your "Madone" is some kind of a super speedy bike with a titanium and cat semen frame and a saddle made out of a donkey's dick and that you paid way too much for it. And here's how the cops will catch your ass if you flee: it's called a "Stinger." It's a cute little metal strip with lots of lovely spikes on it. They throw it across your path and your tires blow. You end up in a heap with a broken collarbone, some missing teeth, a ruined Madone and (hopefully) a felony resisting arrest charge.
FYI
-From WABA:
Crescent Trail Speed Limit Update
To date over 460 people have sent in letters to the Maryland National Park and Planning Commission (MNCPPC) to call for reopening the discussion on how to properly improve safety on the Capital Crescent Trail. MNCPPC has recently installed speed limit signs along the trail without the input of the cycling community as a whole and failed to address the need to educate all trail users on how to use the facility properly.
There is still time to let your voice be heard. Visit http://www.waba.org/takeaction/CCT.php for more information on the issue, a link to WABA's official position on the speed limits, as well as a Take Action form.
boo hoo hoo! The WABA Whiners strike again! It's isn't fair! Everyone else causes the problem - not us on our little bikes with Spandex jammed up the cracks of our 300 lb asses. It's the joggers and walkers who DARE to use OUR BIKE TRAIL! THEY'RE THE PROBLEM!