July 18, 2008
Md. Police Spied on Freedom-Hating Puppy Killers
...oh wait, they actually just spied on peaceful anti-war and anti-death penalty activists.
The Post is reporting today that the Maryland State Police actively infiltrated meetings and demonstrations held by war and death penalty protesters during the administration of Gov. Robert Ehrlich (R). The kicker? "The surveillance continued even though the logs contained no reports of illegal activity and consistently indicated that the activists were not planning violent protests." And then there's this:
A well-known antiwar activist from Baltimore, Max Obuszewski, 63, was singled out by the undercover agents and entered into a "Washington-Baltimore High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area" database. His entry indicates a "Primary Crime" of "Terrorism-anti-government" and a "Secondary Crime" of "Terrorism-Anti-War Protesters," according to the documents.We'd think this was just a case of over-zealous police types if it didn't seem to happen with such frequency in the metro area. In 2002, D.C. police illegally rounded up 400 protesters in Pershing Park during protests against the World Bank and IMF, leading to an expensive settlement, a scathing report on police conduct and a new city law protecting the right to peaceably assemble. And pretty much any time anti-globalization demonstrators show up, the city takes the somewhat excessive step of turning on their downtown CCTV network and shutting down entire blocks of the downtown area. More recently, a judge ruled that the National Park Service violated its own rules in giving organizers of President Bush's 2005 inauguration near-total control over access to the parade route, effectively shutting out protests. We'd be remiss in remembering that even innocent amateur photography is seen as a threat in these parts nowadays.
Obviously, law enforcement agencies argue that in this era of terrorist threats, measures like these are merely meant to protect the peaceful citizenry from violent protesters. But protests in the area have become significantly less rowdy than they were in the past, so why the continued need for such police-state-like tactics, especially when they invariably result in expensive lawsuits and settlements against local jurisdictions?
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What do the protesters care? They have nothing to worry about if they weren't doing anything wrong. Am I right that a little surveillance never hurt anyone?
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ok then kippers, who are you hanging out with? Mind if we tag along?
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Thank GOP, I've never liked the USA when it wasn't a police state.
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Oh, forgot to mention, your tax dollars are paying for the drinks. Thanks!
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"Am I right that a little surveillance never hurt anyone?"
No, you're not.
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Feel free to tag along. Nothing to hide here.
And please don't act like this is a solely a GOP thing. We have been lucky to have had folks like AG Reno who was more than capable in making sure that her citizens were kept safe.
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They have nothing to worry about if they weren't doing anything wrong.
My irony detector might be off a bit here. Surely you're not blaming these protesters for whining about wanton state surveillance. Are you? Because politically-motivated intelligence activity is a much bigger problem than whiny protesters.
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Fuck protesters. Get a job, hippies.
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Me: Hey guys, the government is clubbing baby seals for fun, I don't think that's right, want to organize a protest?
Friends: Yeah, that is messed up, let's organize a peaceful march!
Me: Great, but just so you know, the police are going to come undercover to our meetings and videotape everything we do and say, and maybe even put us on drug or terrorist watch lists so we will most likely have trouble boarding a plan and will probably be harassed by the police every time we encounter them for the rest of our lives!
Friends: On second thought let's just keep being apathetic.
Does this answer your question Kippers?
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First of all, if the cops are undercover then you would never know about it to trip your groups apathetic nature - and if that was enough to stop you then you are a pretty weak protester. Secondly, there is nothing funny about seal clubbing. Thrice more, being aware of where the nut jobs are and what they are doing is fine with me. Its not like they set fires in congressional bathrooms, disrupt the workings of government officials, or accost people like the secretary of state while preparing to give testimony or anything.
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Oh, how dare they accost people... fucking terrorists.
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Bill Rawls is in charge of the State Police. He should like the ACLU to protect his orientation rights? Where is Clay Davis. FREDTERP
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But they weren't watching nut jobs. They were watching peaceful people, who their own investigations PROVED were peaceful.
That means they took police from investigating ACTUAL crimes and had them waste their time, and the state's money on continuing to investigate law abiding citizens.
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spying on American citizens for reasons such as this are a waste of resources. there is plenty of legitimate spying that could be done on more dangerous people (known gang members?). It's not about "having nothing to worry about." People were saying the same thing when everyone going through airport security became subjected to searches. for one thing our rights are slipping away and for another, spying on americans like this only gives the illusion of "keeping us safe" and lastly, we shouldn't be so trusting of government.
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kippers, I think what might be at issue here is not whether or not these groups were doing anything wrong (I'm personally not familiar with anti-death penalty groups having yet evolved to the point of engaging in violent terrorist-like behavior... or any valid concern from government or police groups thereof), but rather these were quazi political groups that were representative of politics that were conversely antagonistic to the politics of the executive branch of the State of Maryland at the time.
For the sake of argument, let's suppose that Maryland State Troopers under O'Malley or some other left leaning Democrat had infiltrated christian groups commited to... say... protesting secularism in public schools. If word had gotten out of such an action from the Maryland police, I think constitutional alarm bells would be ringing from the public and the media.
I just hope people of all political leanings would be equally concerned regardess of the politics of those groups targeted.
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kippers,
Could you be a little more specific?
From Reno's Wikipedia page:
Reno supervised the following Department of Justice actions:
* The month-long standoff and ensuing deaths of 76 men, women, and children--the Branch Davidians--in Waco, Texas.
* Bringing suit against the software company Microsoft for violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act.
* Prosecution resulting in the conviction of 21 of the Montana Freemen after an 81 day armed standoff.
* Capture and conviction of Theodore Kaczynski, the Unabomber.
* Capture and conviction of Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols for the Oklahoma City bombing.
* Capture and conviction of those who conducted the World Trade Center bombing (resulting in life-sentences of Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman and 4 conspirators)
* Leak to the news media regarding Richard Jewell that led to the widespread and incorrect presumption of his guilt in the Centennial Olympic Park bombing. She later apologized, saying "I'm very sorry it happened. I think we owe him an apology. I regret the leak." [12]
* Identification of the correct suspect (Eric Rudolph) in the Centennial Olympic Park bombing and other bombings, who remained a fugitive throughout her tenure.
* Capture and conviction of Mir Aimal Kasi for the 1993 CIA headquarters shootings.
* Armed seizure of six-year-old Elián González who had survived the dangerous trip by sea with his mother (who died) and his return to his surviving parent in Cuba, despite the desire of relatives in Florida to become his guardians.
* In 1998, the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee voted to cite Reno for contempt of Congress for not turning over documents during the impeachment of President Bill Clinton.[13] The full House of Representatives never voted on the resolution and the documents were turned over to the House.
* Her Assistant Attorney General of the Civil Division, David William Ogden, led a lawsuit against the tobacco companies
Could you give us a little insight into what your beef is exactly? Was it the Waco thing? The "Freemen" thing? Maybe the Gonzalez thing?
Help us out here.
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"a waste of resources"
Um, there is one party practically dedicated to wasting resources (the Democons) while the other tries to actively mimic them (the Republitards).
What do you think the TSA is if nothing but a giant welfare program? Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!
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if the cops are undercover then you would never know about it to trip your groups apathetic nature
What does that have to do with anything? I don't think mofozzie was providing this as an example of an actual exchange that might take place between two would-be protesters. I think his point was more abstract: that allowing law enforcement (or any government agency) to arbitrarily conduct surveillance on political dissenters will dampen political dissent. If you're just hunky dory with that, then may I suggest that you're living in the wrong country, because Americans tend to have pretty strong feelings about the right to (peacefully) assemble and (peacefully) oppose government policy, the occasional Sedition Act and Red Scare notwithstanding.
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I don't have a beef at all. My point about Reno was directed at "notyou" in that if you are a person concerned with civil liberties it is disingenuous or at least misinformed to solely blame the GOP for creating a "police state" as it matters little who is in power (i.e., Ruby Ridge, Waco, Gonzalez.)
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Thanks to all of you Maryland resident jerks who voted for Bobby Haircuts just because you didn't like Kennedy-Townshend...
Erlich: Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish
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i'm rusty on my constitutional law, but i do believe that the first amendment (right to assemble and association) +
the fourth amendment (right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures and warrants only upon probably cause)= ridiculous spying is unconstitutional.
i say ridiculous, because its probably going to happen if the government suspects something genuinely shady and dangerous is going down.
also, there's all the privacy penumbras have been ensconced in supreme court cases.
kippers, i agree that safety probably warrants watching the 'nutjobs.' first, but who decides what's nuts? second, how much of this is just voyeurism on the part of those who have the power to watch everything? third, isn't there a danger of large amounts of public money being spent to entertain voyeurists? fourth, if free drinks are involved its not voyeurism or illegal state spying - its just a good time.
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I really have nothing more to say but I appreciate any post that has voyeurism, nuts, and drinking.
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I hear there's a large, very secretive organization operating here in the US, with massive resources and a long history of abusing children, whilst using some of their $$ on massive protests involving social issues.
How about we go in and investigate, sending in some undercover 'activists'.
Or should I mention first that it's the Catholic Church?
Anybody want to discuss our blatant hypocrisy on who we spy on and who we don't?
Why is it always the peaceniks and not the child-molesters?
Kippers?
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If I comment on DCist from my perch on Bostonist will I end up on some Internets watch list?
HCE, the current occupant of the WH and his cohorts have redefined "wasting resources" to a degree never imagined by Democrats. The unnecessary surveillance described in this situation is the tip of the iceberg.
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Maryland Declaration of Rights ...Article 44. That the provisions of the Constitution of the United States, and of this State, apply, as well in time of war, as in time of peace; and any departure therefrom, or violation thereof, under plea of necessity, or in any other plea, is subversive of Good government, and tends to anarchy and despotism.
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if the next administration can just step us back at least one step from the precipice in this wanton rush towards the need to suveil everything, i'd be happy.
i won't be holding my breath, though.
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Hillman - If you asking me if I believe churches/clergy should be investigated or infiltrated by undercover officers if there is suspicion of child abuse my answer is yes. Same goes for masques and terrorist imams.
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For those who don't see anything at all wrong with this read up on the Church Committee and their findings. The actions of the MSP don't rise to the level of COINTELPRO and other programs in every sense, but it is necessary to question and challenge such tactics before they do reach that level.
I find it questionable that these groups were identified for surveillance in the first place (and I respect the viewpoint of some that those actions were merited), but I find it very disturbing that the surveillance continued and that names of people who had broken no laws and were under no suspicion of breaking any laws in the future were shared with multiple intelligence agencies and that at least one was entered as a suspected terrorist in the local drug trafficking database.
Political activism is a cornerstone of democracy. Curtailing political activism degrades democracy. The actions of the MSP fall into the latter category in my opinion. Not necessarily for looking into these groups in the first place (which I do disagree with though), but for their actions after they determined that the groups were peaceful and breaking no laws.
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it matters little who is in power (i.e., Ruby Ridge, Waco, Gonzalez.)
I guess my point was that you can't just say "Ruby Ridge" as if that settles the matter. If you want to argue an equivalency, you need to do more than simply name-check the Aryan Freemen's equivalent of Mumia Abu-Jamal.
Or "Waco" for that matter: "Hey look! A bunch of child-molesting religious freaks opened fire on some policemen, then burned down their house and killed all their children! Damn you Janet Reno!"
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See, I would argue the FBI burned down their compound. Haven't you seen "Waco: Rules of Engagement"?
And once again I never damned Janet Reno. I simply trying to make the point that regardless of party affiliation government officials are prone to use their powers in such a way that can lead to the appearance of a "police state" by those concerned with "civil liberties." Am I to assume you believe this to be a partisan issue in which no Democrat administration has faltered?
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See, I would argue the FBI burned down their compound. Haven't you seen "Waco: Rules of Engagement"?
Free Mumia!!!!
[R]egardless of party affiliation government officials are prone to use their powers in such a way that can lead to the appearance of a "police state" by those concerned with "civil liberties."
Boy, that's some pretty weak tea.
Am I to assume you believe this to be a partisan issue in which no Democrat administration has faltered?
Hey, leave me out of it. You're the one calling down a "Pox on Both Them Houses". You could at least give a defensible modern example without resorting to phrases like "prone to use powers in a way that can lead to appearances". :)