DCist: Click Click: St. Elizabeths West Campus Ruins

stmove

Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:19:48 -0500

Oh hillvada, I know this thread is like two days old now- but I thought I would address your [#20] rebuttal to my gross insult of all federal employees, because I think you misunderstood (and I just noticed it). It was not a jab at federal employees, it was a jab at suburbanites that drive in to work at federal jobs! C'mon get my slanderous statements straight. Regarding your Rove-ian statement that I am an "insignificant gnat in the great scheme of things." I see where you are coming from. I am fairly aware of our common insignificance but I still expect decent urban planning, amenities, and land use. And I still think 'most' govies dress, eat and entertain like tools. Unfortunately I keep my building passes, access cards, and gov. badges, in my pockets, or clipped on only when needed, so you're right- I "have no lanyard", and it may well be because unlike you I "have nowhere to go in life." But I think it is more because lanyards outside of the office are worn by douchebags. And I am only a douchebag on the weekends. As for the Easy Spirits, that was a bit of a synecdoche, for a particular look which most govies in DC acquire if they are not careful, the same look that is generally mocked by every single person outside of the Metro DC area. But with the comment thread generalization rule in place: I maintain that most DHS employees will be more interested in slugging and Costco than doing anything in DC- no offense, just an observation. I am not saying one demographic is better, just better looking. And yes it is a gross generalization, but seeing as I work with them all the time- I can do that without much fear of being wrong. Please keep comparing me to young college kids with no life yet, god I love that- for an old person like me, nothing is sweeter.

shurray

Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:44:30 -0500

in 2002 I worked for the architect who was hired to 'mothball' the campus and spent most of that AWFUL sweltering summer going through these buildings. They are truly amazing -most are in pretty good condition with a few noted exceptions. I would love to see this campus put to a creative use -'mixed use' is a cop out which means nothing. I think you would be hard pressed to find people willing to live in a former mental institution.

HCE

Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:17:41 -0500

Shouldn't the Coast Guard headquarters be, um, I don't know, on THE COAST???

preserveit

Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:16:56 -0500

AJOP - It seems that you are misinformed about the development over there. Yes, they plan to put 750K gsf on the east campus but you need to remember that everything is PLUS parking. There will be parking garages on both the east and west. All the numbers that are presented are PLUS parking. There will still be 3.8 million square feet built on the west campus PLUS parking and that is just TOO much! No one is saying that federal investment is not welome - it's just not welcome at a level that will destroy the National Historic Landmark! Remember, it's not just about the buildings, it's about the landscape, the topographic bowl, the views in and out of the site from the city and from accross the river. All of these lend themselves to this special place - not just the buildings. And again, the federal government IS NOT the only outfit that could reinvigorate this campus. What about a public/private partnership that leaves the campus open to the public and allows for development of affordable housing and retail?

ajop

Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:29:42 -0500

You can't save all 60 buildings -- 2/3 is pretty good. 40 is better than 0, yes? Have you really studied the Master Plan? I STRESS only GSA could even come close to this level of preservation... look at the Monaco Hotel. GSA is sensitive to the topography both from the air and from land... I bet you could thing of at least one military style campus (and by the way they will likely be placing parts of DHS on the East Campus as well, and all of the parking on the East campus, so there has to be foot traffic) that brought development to the surrounding area. There has to be a middle ground, no one else can do it.

IMGoph

Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:20:54 -0500

ajop: i feel like arguing this one with you is like banging my head against a brick wall, so i won't try too hard, but you sound like a bush administration lackey. "clean skies" "healthy forests" "preserve!" how the hell can you call it preservation when they're going to knock stuff down? how can you call it preservation when they're going to CHANGE THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THE LAND? poplar point will bring it's own related retail, for sure. but a military-style campus with the equivalent of a moat around it will bring absolutely nothing to this area. nothing. you're only fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

ajop

Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:51:23 -0500

The federal government is the ONLY entity that can PRESERVE this historic landmark. The are going to preserve about 40 of the 60 historic buildings. Development is Inevitable - the combination of Poplar Point, the West and East Campus of St. E's WILL undoubtedly bring major retail to Ward 8. It is on the drawing boards; we are talking COSTCO, Target, Big Chain restaraunts, small business development... all of it. The the development will creep into all parts of ward 8... slow and insidious, but luckily I believe the ward 8 community knows how to stick up for itself.

preserveit

Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:33:50 -0500

Doesn't look that bad? Hmm... Well sure, the plans don't call for the demolition of many buildings but it does call for a double security fence snaking its way through the hillside and demolition of intact landscape features significant to the National Historic Landmark. Did I mention the need to take National park land so DHS can get the 14K employees onto the site? Best of all the Coast Guard Headquarters (the most heinous IMHO) will take a huge chunk out of the western slope disrupting the topographic bowl which is a character defining feature of the federal city. But yeah...it's not too bad.

monkeyrotica

Wed, 22 Oct 2008 06:43:10 -0500

why the hell does the federal government have to eyesore up the place? I dunno. Maybe because they're a bunch of eyesoles? I kid! I kid! Pleas, Mr. Cheney! Put the shotgun down!

o2bncdg

Wed, 22 Oct 2008 06:34:57 -0500

Can someone show me ONE plan that calls for the destruction of any current building? All I've seen is the renovation/restoration of everything there and constructions of some new buildings and glass bridges between current buildings.

ustreetgirl

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:21:40 -0500

Good lord, destroying a National Historic Landmark, great going federal government. The best part is, there are federal funds available to lobby against the destruction of designated National Historic Landmarks, so things like this don't happen.

o2bncdg

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:19:59 -0500

I appreciate all the comments. I would really like nothing better than to drive through those gates as a private citizen and see all there is to see on the West Campus. I drove in 20+ years ago (I don't remember HOW) with no problem and enjoyed it and saw its potentital. But, it IS overlooking the Marine 1 hangars AND the Defense Intelligence Agency. If there's a way around DoD's vetoing any "private" development, I'm for it. I'm more for the Coast Guard to move back to L'Enfant Plaza anyway. The USCG moved to Buzzard's Point in 1979 from L'Enfant Plaza and it isn't a garden spot, I promise you. The USCG is slated to be the first to move into St. E's, and I fear the rest of DHS will be years if not decades later. Figure out a way for us to not go, and I'm for it.

IMGoph

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:19:52 -0500

o2bncdg: it's not 'potentially' beautiful. look at the views from there right now. it is beautiful. i'm not looking to assign 'fault'. just looking to stop a potential big-friggin-mistake before it becomes irreversible.

monkeyrotica

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:07:20 -0500

Well, the Ezra Pound Suite is looking spic and span as usual. I can think of a couple other fascist sympathizers who could benefit from a lengthy stay. I can only hope their poetry is as good. Maybe a nice haiku about shooting people in the face?

stmove

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:43:31 -0500

Economic crisis as it is, I don't see how the Fed could not come out on top selling that land off to a developer (with Historic Pres. and public access guaranteed), and make some revenue (if a grant to DC gov is out of the realm of reality). At the same time finding space on another, less "primely located" Fed lot, somewhere out of the way to plop down their giant DHS "box" buildings to house bureaucrats. Just like the DIA workers on Bolling AFB, all they need is a burger king and cafeteria on site, they will bring no other money to the area. This may sound flaky on it's surface, but like other depressed areas, what that area needs is an influx of the creative class- and some attraction for them, those who will venture out some and bring something with them if it's not there. People who can move into cheap housing close-by. If you bring the DHS, you can kiss the creative classes goodbye forever. And therefore expect more burger kings and in house cafeterias for eternity.

hillvada

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:35:03 -0500

I love the jabs on the Federal employees with their "Easy Spirits" and "lanyards." Oh to be a young college graduate waiting tables at the Toledo Lounge and thinking World revolved around me and my new urbanism when, in reality, you are an insignificant gnat in the great scheme of things. You have no lanyard because you have nowhere you need to go in life...and as for the Easy Spirits, don't worry, you will be wearing them in 10 years after some unemployed artist/DJ living in Williamsburg decides they are retro-chic.

o2bncdg

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:29:41 -0500

As a member of the Coast Guard Headquarters Staff, I'm looking forward to moving onto the West Campus of St. Elizabeths. It can't be any worse than where we are right now! I know some people are concerned that this (potentially) beautiful campus will be closed to the puplic. This is neither GSA's nor DHS's fault. The campus overlooks the hangars for Marine 1, and also the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA). DoD will never allow unfettered access to that place!

IMGoph

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:14:55 -0500

preserveit: (sounds like a screen name you made just for this post, eh?) thanks for the information. i will make sure to let them all know how i feel about this.

preserveit

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:47:46 -0500

It's not all over! They are still going through the public comment period. Tell the Commission of Fine Art, the National Capital Planning Commission, the DC Council and Delegate Norton that the destruction of this National Historic Landmark for the use of DHS is NOT what those in DC want. Federal investment is not the only way to save this site. There are major developers like those who just did the National Seminary at Forest Glen that could take on this challenge and bring the historic site back from the brink and onto the DC taxrolls.

OnlyatBrandeis

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:44:11 -0500

The west campus of SEH is supposed to have the best views of DC. I do work for the hospital and can say several things without a doubt. 1) Many of those buildings are literally falling apart. 2) The establishments along that part of MLK are not places where you would want to hang out. I hope a half decent place to get a sandwich will open

Vaughan

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:41:52 -0500

IMGoph's comments are oft-repeated, but they're well-founded. with DHS comes really strict security requirements and less access, which means less traffic and less market-based economic development. necessitating larger investments from other governments to generate economic development there. and newsflash - the federal government certainly is in the habit of giving many birthday presents each year. they're called grants (along with the occasional, but much larger defense contract) - but there are numerous economic development benefits associated with them. if done correctly, you're not just helping the grantee; the grant can give a huge boost to that area and the district as a whole. so, ajop, maybe insidious is the adjective you were looking to use....

IMGoph

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:37:09 -0500

ajop: i'm not saying UDC is some perfect institution that could swoop in and save the day here. from what i understand, it's far from it. but to acknowledge something you said, nothing happens in an instant. changing UDC is a slow process (believe me, i know, i've talked to people with family who work there). but it would be far superior from a community-building standpoint than dropping the equivalent of another military garrison in the middle of the city.

HCE

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:33:13 -0500

I have to echo the sentiments of others here that DHS taking over the St. Elizabeths campus is a great tragedy for this city. The saddest part is that what's done is done, the federal government can do whatever the hell they please with the land and the great old structures on it regardless of historical status, and nobody could ever hope to take it out of their hands or change their minds about it. Go on one of those tours and check it out while you still can.

jaime

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:32:23 -0500

ajop if by insidous you mean treacherous or deceitful, then i think you've hit the nail on the head. assuming a high security DHS complex will bring vibrancy to the MLK corridor only makes an ass out of u and me.

IMGoph

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:29:47 -0500

stmove: why the hell can't we beat that idea into people's heads more? why the hell does the federal government have to eyesore up the place? if they're all going to have to be in fortresses of solitude, can't we set those fortresses up in places where the rest of us don't have to look at them?

ajop

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:24:56 -0500

that is hilarious IMGOPH! UDC can struggles with its current capital costs much less pony up BILLIONS to revamp 30 to 40 historic buildings. I guess you think the feds should pay for it and give it away? like a little birthday present? Maybe on the West Campus a University would be appropriate. I'm afraid the only sore thing is your tired point of view. The East and West Campus will become integral parts of a whole and long sought after retail development will follow.. along with Poplar Point. Nothing happens in an instant... it will be slow and insidious.

stmove

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:22:27 -0500

To second IMGoph, this is so sad. Two of the best real estate stretches in the city (St. E's and Bolling AFB) are taken up by mostly useless federal sites. Only in DC. Anywhere else, stretches of beautiful land with river view or access, overlooking the entire north of the city from almost any angle would be filled with vibrant neighborhoods, and great places to go walk, eat, play. But here they are occupied during business hours mostly by suburbanites wearing easy spirits and lanyards. I can say that having worked on Bolling for a while long ago, I remember walking on that waterfront being the only person there most lunch breaks. Maybe 5 or six people walk on that waterfront trail a day, then the offices close and everyone goes home. Leaving once of the most scenic parts of town locked up behind federal gates. Couldn't all the federal workers be just as happy out in some un-lovely cow pasture in some Virginia county? Wouldn't VA love the "tax revenue" from all those TGIF dining big spenders. Meanwhile we could take back some land for real urban development.

erincarly

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:11:10 -0500

if the architecture firm selected for this project does a good job, the existing structures will be a main feature of the new complex. with the site being historic, there are certain guidelines they have to follow to protect that standing, and that includes preserving the existing buildings to the greatest extent. considering how much waste is accumulated when tearing down a building for a new one, they'd save money *and* be kind to the environment. that being said, this is for the government. i'd bet a large sum of money they pick the cheapest architect bidding on the project, who probably proposed a [shoddy] giant glass box and razing the rest. [my view is a bit biased, since my firm submitted on the first round of RFI's.]

washcycle

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:10:02 -0500

What exactly is a detached nurse? Is that old-timey talk for single? If so, let me in that building.

IMGoph

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:06:07 -0500

ajop: you're sorely mistaken, i'm afraid. this would be 15,000 federal employees who will drive in from the suburbs, never leave the confines of the security barriers of the campus, and only contribute to the local economy by (maybe) stopping and purchasing gas at a gas station on MLK on their way to and from st. e's. there's no way in hell this would become some kind of place where enormous foot traffic leads to some idyllic neighborhood strip. it's a goddamn shame that this doesn't become the campus for UDC. hell, it looks like a college campus. building up a real, sucessful university here would be ideal for this spot.

flapjack

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:02:44 -0500

my Dad will be working there whenever DHS sets up shop. He's not exactly looking forward to it.

ajop

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:58:41 -0500

Has the public ever had open access to the west campus of St. E's? 15 years of development, billions of dollars only the feds can bring for historic renovation and 15,000 federal employees will go a long way to bringing needed investment to MLK...

IMGoph

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:35:06 -0500

and, i should mention, it's a god-damn shame that this will be yet another part of the city, in our free and open society, that will be thrown behind 'security' barricades that keep us out. that sucks ass. really sucks ass. more than i can put in words.

McGillicuddy

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:34:42 -0500

that's definitely a fixer upper. cool photos!

IMGoph

Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:27:06 -0500

the ubiquitous red-plywood over windows and doors reminds me of the boarded-up properties that shiloh baptist owns on 9th street in shaw. great picture set.